I would beg to disagree. I use MacOS all the time when I am at home because my wife has a G3. It is much more stable then Windows ever has been..and I also use this in conjunction with my 2 SuSE boxes and my Sun Solaris (sparc) box...Windows doesn't come close to having the stability that these other systems have. BTW...I thought we were all on a SuSE Linux list...not a Windows... but I could be wrong ;) Regards, * Timothy R. Butler (tbutler@uninetsolutions.com) [000711 03:47]:

Greg, You are very right about quality. I simply meant that they weren't any worse than MacOS or other proprietary OSes (or RedHat, for that matter).

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I'm very much an ignorant new boy, but there seem a number of big differences to me. First there's the whole open source philosopy - I couldn't program my way out of a wet paper bag, but I profoundly appreciate all the goodies programmers are putting out. Second and related is the whole spirit of co-operative enterprise exemplified on this board - and thanks again to all those who've helped me out. But if all this is a bit cerebral, try this: I work for a small charity that's always short of cash and wants computers to provide free services to the public. We had to buy licences for 10 lots of Windows, for four lots of MS Office, and a bunch of other stuff. The company we work with produces graphical interfaces to their database products, and they're constantly held up fixing things because they can't get access to MS code themselves. Until now, they haven't ported their stuff to Linux - but when (maybe still if) they do, anyone in the position I was a year ago would have a completely transformed set of options with SuSE - less than 30 pounds (45 USD?) for an industrial strength operating system, office software, networking software, security products, documentation, superior graphical interface, the list goes on and on ... and I'm free to put this on as many machines as I please. And my specialist software suppliers would always be able to find out exactly how to write beautiful graphical front-ends because KDE etc are all open source ... Plus I could do exactly the same if I happened to be a company or a university with hundreds or even thousands of users. That's what I call a major advantage, and I save enough money on licensing to buy additional kit, training, or have a party. Plus, isn't Linux essentially far more fun? Cheers all, Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB UK Tel: +44 (0)161 834 7961 Fax: +44 (0)161 839 5797 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Hi Phil,

I am still following this thread with interest...

I must say I always enjoy such threads, they bring up interesting discussion! They also bring interesting differences between Linux and Windows (like the author of this thread originally meant to do).

Hmm... If I ask to charge a high price, and there are other suppliers/sources then there is a "fair" market. The user can choose between different sources of software/service. If my service/product is that much better then I get paid. If there is only one supplier then that supplier has a MONOPOLY and can do as they please. When Netscape was a competitor for the browser market (at a price) a crew with a MONOPOLY (at the time) tried to inflict any user of a PC, with their browser (apparently for free).

Well, I'll argue to the cows come home that that was fair. MSIE wasn't the only free browser, in fact Netscape was free for a time, IIRC. But, MS wasn't just targeting Netscape, but also Mosaic, Lynx, and other "free" browsers. Personally, I think this is a stupid debate. I don't feel like shelling out $39 bucks every year to get the latest Netscape, and MSIE was a good thing in that effect. Granted, they bundled it, and killed Netscape, but Netscape didn't even try to keep up. Their browser, IMO wasn't/isn't as good after the 3.x releases and they kept a high price until the bitter end (only changing when they had no choice).

What should have been a "fair" competition on the market for a product was reduced to a "who can afford to do it for free for the longest" situation.

So Sun Microsystems should be in trouble for selling an office suite and operating system for nothing and $10 respectively, too? How about Corel, should they get in trouble for that neat Photo-Paint give-a-way since it eats at Adobe and Microsoft market share?

You speak of a cheap "upgrade" for DOS 6.XX. Correct me if I am mistaken but was there not an "upgrade" to DOS that had it's main claim to "fame" the fact that it did not include stolen software? (Stacker(?) from memory).

I think that was 6.22, yes. However, MS also offered that upgrade offer at CompUSA and other retailers from 6.1 to 6.2. -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================

I have worked in IT for several years now and I say again, as a fairly recent Linux user, that the fundamental difference I see between the M$ way and the Linux way is: greed vs sharing. I will continue to be paid for my work, (as long as my clients feel I am doing them a good job) and hope I am never so greedy that I can not do as I have done before and hope to do again: Accept the fantastic software and support from the entire Linux community, and help other people in using it (as I have been and hope to continue to be). -And as a matter of free choice, assist where I can, in the development and acceptance of FREE software as a very viable alternative to the greed and stifling way of proprietory software. I have no problem in paying for changes or alterations or extras to software. Or asking my clients to do so. What I require is value for money and room to grow. Not be tied to a pile of black box proprietory rubbish from start to finish.

(and yes, I have written proprietory software!)

Phil

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-----Original Message----- From: Timothy R. Butler [mailto:tbutler@uninetsolutions.com] Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 2:28 PM To: phil@keenstreet.com.au; SuSE Mailing List Subject: RE: [SLE] Fundamental differences

Not exactly greed, IMO. Tell me Phil, what do you do for a living? Now, consider that somewhere along the line someone is paying you to do what you do. Are you being greedy for wanting to be paid? If you aren't, how does this apply to Microsoft (or Apple, Oracle, Sun, or even SuSE - they offer the proprietary Applixware, among other things)? Greed would be charging $1,000 for Windows 98.

What's more greedy, trying to force the world to standarize on Win98 at $100 per copy? Or charging $1000 per copy in a free market? I think MS is smart enough to realize that $1000 per copy would encourage too much piracy and would create more opportunity for alternate OSes. So, I'd say the first scenario is more crafty and much more greedy.

But MS blew it anyway because the quality can't even match the $100 price. If the quality were there I don't think Linux, *BSD, BEOS, or any other OS would be doing as well as they are.

Greg

Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. -- ============================ Phil Stebbins Keenstreet Communications Box 6073 South Lismore N.S.W. 2480 Australia

On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Thomas, Gregory (NBC, KNBC) wrote: phil@keenstreet.com http://www.keenstreet.com ============================

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