Karl Eichwalder wrote:

jdd <jdd@dodin.org> writes:

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Hello :-)

is there a mean to have contacts to the official Novell translation team?

You mean, those team translating the software?

also, but mostly thouse translating the manual Subscribe to

yast-int@suse.de, please (yast-int is "closed", but we can add interested volunteers). It is a low volume list, mostly meant for communicating project status.

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my purpose is to make the french translation of openSUSE compliant with the vocabulary used in the manuals

I have a page here:

http://fr.opensuse.org/Glossaire_d'équivalences_entre_l'anglais_et_le_français

with some officials (government) french translation terms, I would like to have a similar thing from Novell. I beleive there are several translators and I could use some of they references or tools

http://www.novellglossaries.com might be of interest to you. It is password protected, but we are allowed to make it available to our translators. Honestly, I do not know what "our translators" means in these times of openSUSE ;-) I'll ask them if you are interested in such a resource.

How can I login? I Have two Novell logins, jdd (simple user) and jdd_sysop (sysop of fr.opensuse.org) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2006-04-04 at 17:40 +0200, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

http://www.novellglossaries.com might be of interest to you. It is password protected, but we are allowed to make it available to our translators. Honestly, I do not know what "our translators" means in these times of openSUSE ;-) I'll ask them if you are interested in such a resource.

What about people interested in translating things like man or info pages? We can not say RTFM in spanish... I wouldn't even know how to translate one of those files - technically, I mean, what software to use. Any gui? - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFENPM2tTMYHG2NR9URAn3jAJ9JVdMRP9ZKb4r0qPXK3KKOgfr50wCfVYJJ qadkZv8xYwae7VJHEDIUPjc= =0izl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-04-06 at 14:32 +0200, jdd wrote:

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What about people interested in translating things like man or info pages? We can not say RTFM in spanish... I wouldn't even know how to translate one of those files - technically, I mean, what software to use. Any gui?

probably see http://tldp.org

Yes, I've been there... but I get lost. I haven't seen a simple manual on how to translate a man/info page. What to get, what to install, what program to use. And of course, if it means learning a new language like latex or docbook or similar, forget it: I want a gui. Minimum is Lyx, out of the box, and "SuSEsified" (LyX has never worked for me out of the box). I only find info on how to subscribe to several work lists... but not direct info on how to do a translation: first I have to know how it is done, see samples, before committing myself. So... for the moment, I'm translating a program using kbabel. That was very easy to find out how. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFENV01tTMYHG2NR9URAvkLAJ91M01Mfry1/rP69qjpTzW+wHbSCgCeKcGH ZVJ0aPfAB68obFLi0nTrMdY= =h68A -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2006-04-06 at 21:07 +0200, jdd wrote:

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Yes, I've been there... but I get lost. I haven't seen a simple manual on how to translate a man/info page.

there is nothing I know about "translating". May be we should enhance the translator page (http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide)

That one is about translating the wiki, I think. I was simply interested in translating man pages of programs, so that we can send people to "rtfm" in our language ;-)

What to get, what to install, what

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program to use.

If you mean translating for the wiki, there is no program needed. The wiki use an editbox in your browser.

If you mean translating for SUSE/Novell manuals, AFAIK Novell uses docbook with a particular DTD

No, they have their own team, and they do it very well. The SuSE admin book in Spanish is very good.

And of course, if it means learning a new language like

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latex or docbook or similar, forget it: I want a gui.

I know none really usable. most docbook users I know of uses Vi or emacs :-).

I know... I have helped to translate documentation in docbook using emacs. It meant that to see the result we had to ask somebody else to "compile" the document to pdf or something, waiting a day or two for that. If we made a syntax error, that person had to correct it, for a language he could not read. Cumbersome.

2 years ago I advocate your position: we want a GUI. however my work now is not on the same side and I have less use of it. I have a HOWTO (Partition Rescue) but it have few to change and will probably be incorporated in an other doc.

OpenOffice have at least a partial export to docbook/xml, but it used to be be quite hard to install and I didn't try it recently (just seen it in the install options).

Never tried it; I had no idea.

Minimum is Lyx, out

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of the box, and "SuSEsified" (LyX has never worked for me out of the box).

LyX always worked right out of the box for me. If you plan to use it for the Linuxdoc project, the best way is to use linuxdoc. This sgml language is very simple with the only drawback to have no image inclusion. LyX is quite pleasant if you don't wan to exchange format with openoffice :-)

I tried again right now; I fired up LyX, selected "new from template" -> "linuxdoc_article" and got this error: ] Textclass error ] ] The document uses a missing Tex class "linuxdoc". ] LyX will not be able to produce output. ] OK See? It doesn't work. Thinking... ah, I have "sgmltools-lite" installed, but not "sgmltool". I remember I had to do that previously to get something or other working; I'll try the other way round now. [...] The template loads... ... but "view PDF" fails: cer@nimrodel:~> step: Counter does not exist: sect Processing file newfile1.sgml /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:1:2:E: unknown declaration type "doctype" /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:3:0:E: prolog can't be omitted unless CONCUR NO and LINK EXPLICIT NO and either IMPLYDEF ELEMENT YES or IMPLYDEF DOCTYPE YES /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:3:0:E: no document type declaration; will parse without validation /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:28:9:E: end tag for "sect" omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:22:0: start tag was here /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:28:9:E: end tag for "toc" omitted, but OMITTAG NO was specified /usr/bin/nsgmls:<OSFD>0:21:0: start tag was here /usr/bin/sgmlsasp: can't open `/usr/lib/sgml-tools/dist/article/latex2e/mapping': No such file or directory This is pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4) entering extended mode LaTeX2e <2003/12/01> Babel <v3.8d> and hyphenation patterns for american, french, german, ngerman, b ahasa, basque, bulgarian, catalan, croatian, czech, danish, dutch, esperanto, e stonian, finnish, greek, icelandic, irish, italian, latin, magyar, norsk, polis h, portuges, romanian, russian, serbian, slovak, slovene, spanish, swedish, tur kish, ukrainian, nohyphenation, loaded. (./newfile1.tex) ! Emergency stop. <*> \nonstopmode\input{newfile1.tex} No pages of output. Transcript written on newfile1.log. This is dvips(k) 5.95a Copyright 2005 Radical Eye Software (www.radicaleye.com) dvips: ! DVI file can't be opened. Impossible. There are two other menu entries to "view PDF output": the second one also fails, the third crashes LyX. The html output is empty. dvi, nothing. As I said, LyX has never worked for me out of the box - in fact, I'm not sure I even got it to work. How can it work, if the first error is «unknown declaration type "doctype"»? Has somebody tried the SuSE version of LyX before committing it to dvd? It doesn't work! I'm sorry, this has been a years long frustration to me. I like LyX idea, but it simply doesn't work. :-/ And for producing "info pages" or "man pages", I don't even see a menu entry in LyX for it, so I don't see how I could use it to translate man pages.

It has the LaTeX way of dealing with images, you can like it or not, but it works. html export (with Hevea, for example) is very good and it's indexing capability gorgious :-)

You can do with it hundred pages document I won't try to do with openoffice.

The idea is nice... but once I write the document, I can't produce pdf or html or dvi with it, so it is useless.

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I only find info on how to subscribe to several work lists... but not direct info on how to do a translation: first I have to know how it is done, see samples, before committing myself.

I'm spending much time translating, with a very simple way of life: I copy the original text (english) to the target page, type the translation in front of the english text and delete the english part when the sentence is translated.

That's what I do. Or did, with the only docbook text I tried. But sometimes we got into syntax error, and as the only person that knew the docbook thing disappeared of the net (the original language author), the translation project sunk. Even if we finished our part, we can't publish. Very frustrating. For a man page, I don't even know how the "source text" looks, and how to compile it. I think that Novell people could help producing some kind of workable environment or whatever so that people that "could"translate "can" really translate. I can't. No tools. Now I'm translating the messages a certain program produces. It is easy, with kbabel: I don't need to really know how it works. I have the English text in one window, the Spanish I'm creating in another. A button somewhere checks syntax and tells me what is wrong.. Once finished I'll send it to the developers, and done and happy. Easy.

I don't try to stay near the original text, but to be near the original meaning of the text. I very rarely use a dictionnary, altough I need sometime one. In fact I have two ones, a very small (mainly for orthograph reference) and a big (4 large volumes) for dealing with words with several meanings. A synonyms dictionnary is nice.

I use "jdictionary" (java) and dict, my own glossary, and some other bits and ends. Not very helpful, really. Once I looked at a specialized paper dictionary, and it was way, way expensive. Perhaps there are good online translating dictionaries: now that I have an adsl connection, I can use them - if i find them, of course ;-) Translating programs has the added difficulty of syntax (%s and such), not much context to guess meanings, and short sentences sometimes.

Notice that I translate from english to my native langage (french), I write in english, but no well enough to make translation.

I think can write in English or Spanish; translating from either one to the other I find rather difficult: It is a different skill. Of course, if I write in English it can be noticed that it is not my first language, but it is not bad :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFENa4ntTMYHG2NR9URAkxoAKCHnJr1WXIY5BeVxocDVUo3NH40dwCgj7RS vhFIdym0lHMV8T1dMQ5FxgY= =lQeI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Carlos E. R. wrote:

See? It doesn't work.

launch lyx from a xterm, the error messages will say what is the problem

How can it work, if the first error is «unknown declaration type "doctype"»? Has somebody tried the SuSE version of LyX before committing it to dvd? It doesn't work!

I'm sorry, this has been a years long frustration to me. I like LyX idea, but it simply doesn't work. :-/

I fire LyX, push "new", type anything, view pdf and it works... in the formats, linuxdoc is quoted "unavaialble"

And for producing "info pages" or "man pages", I don't even see a menu entry in LyX for it, so I don't see how I could use it to translate man pages.

you need to contact the author of the page... it's not SUSE :-)

That's what I do. Or did, with the only docbook text I tried. But sometimes we got into syntax error, and as the only person that knew the docbook thing disappeared of the net (the original language author), the translation project sunk. Even if we finished our part, we can't publish. Very frustrating.

I know that for tldp you can submit in any format, somebody helps. did you try discuss@tldp.org? I need to go to work, now more on that later :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

jdd wrote:

jdd wrote:

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in the formats, linuxdoc is quoted "unavaialble"

after installing sgmltools-lite, it's available.

lyx seems to export correctly to sgml

seems that with both sgmltools and sgmltools-lite one have access to linuxdoc & docbook LyX may not be able to export in all formats; I couldn't try all, but looks like lyx make DVI only from ut's original format (or LaTeX), but can do pdf with sgml lite and manpage format with sgmltools should be enough to work, may be giving a look to the LyX mailing list, that (time ago) used to be responsive :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos

On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 02:11:09 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

And for producing "info pages" or "man pages", I don't even see a menu entry in LyX for it, so I don't see how I could use it to translate man pages.

There are no GUI tools for doing that besides normal GUI editors like gvim, xemacs, nedit etc. That means you have to write all the formatting tags for either troff (man pages) or texinfo (info pages) yourself. As for source formats, just grab any file from below /usr/share/man, uncompress and then view it. Man pages are 'compiled' on the fly by the man command which calls nroff to do the actual job. The sources for texinfo pages are compiled by makeinfo. Philipp

* jdd (jdd@dodin.org) [20060407 10:21]:

there are backends to translate from sgml to nroff/troff

Yes, there are and some projects do use docbook to generate all documentation, but the majority have man pages in troff format only. So you'd first have to translate the troff form to sgml and that is a manual task where no tool can help you, so I doubt it's a viable option. Philipp