On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

And we want to keep it simple and safe. Based on feedback of many users, the decision was taken to delay a new release with about 1 to 2 weeks to make sure that there are no major breakages due to this new release, etc. So that people can upgrade from this repository in a safe way.

If this 1 to 2 weeks is too much (and for KDE 4.13 it was already announced that it would become available next week Friday 25 April), then the community should speak up and I am more than happy to drop a new release in KDE:Current as soon as it is being released. However this could mean that a major bug detected on the release day can not be fixed and people will face that bug.

As a long-time KDE user who is VERY happy with the KDE:Current repo change... I'm good either way with waiting or immediate drop. If I look at it from the many new/inexperienced users I assist with openSUSE and KDE... the 2 week wait isn't going to hurt anyone, and allows a comfortable buffer zone. If people want a shorter buffer... that's OK too (from my standpoint anyway... since this isn't a drop of 4.12.99, but instead the full 4.13 release) C -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.12 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [04-18-14 07:33]: [...]

[pruned]

The discussion took place in the KDE mail list and not in this general, opensuse, list so almost nobody would know about what was discussed in the KDE list.

Oddly enough the discussion was specifically about KDE and not generalities about openSUSE/linux, probably meeting the critera for the KDE list ??? Would that not be so, seems little reason to have a KDE focused list, or programming or gnome or ..... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 4/18/2014 3:57 AM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

John Andersen wrote:

...

On 4/17/2014 11:18 AM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

So the upshot is that you really *don't want any users to help test new releases* because of the need to constantly be fiddling with repositories ?!?

That is a pretty harsh conclusion that you draw here. The whole story around the repositories have been indicated already in previous posts.

The testing of new releases is done with KDE:Distro:Factory (as already for many years) as that this is the official development repository for the next openSUSE release. As soon as a beta version is released of the next KDE release, we also enable building for the current released openSUSE version so that we can prepare the packaging, see which updated libraries we require, etc. Users are more than welcome to jump to KDE:Distro:Factory at that moment to start testing the upcoming release. However these are beta quality software which could cause data loss, etc. I am not sure if this is what you are targeting if you already find fiddling with repositories cumbersome.

...

I applaud the creation of KDE:CURRENT. It greatly simplifies stuff.

And we want to keep it simple and safe. Based on feedback of many users, the decision was taken to delay a new release with about 1 to 2 weeks to make sure that there are no major breakages due to this new release, etc. So that people can upgrade from this repository in a safe way.

If this 1 to 2 weeks is too much (and for KDE 4.13 it was already announced that it would become available next week Friday 25 April), then the community should speak up and I am more than happy to drop a new release in KDE:Current as soon as it is being released. However this could mean that a major bug detected on the release day can not be fixed and people will face that bug.

Raymond

In your rant, Raymond, you have entirely mistaken what I was talking about. The problem is, those of us willing to run on the "not quite bleeding, but still raw" edge to test newer releases, are dissuaded from doing so because of the need to forever fiddle with our repository settings, allow vendor changes, etc., due to newly appearing repositories that quickly then disappear. Just give us a KDE:NEXT repository that we can put into out test machine and LEAVE it there, so we could be testing 4.13 today, and drift to 4.14 (or whatever is next) without having to change ANYTHING. I test in a virtual machine. I'd like to set it up once, with a repository structure that doesn't change so often. If the CONCEPT of KDE:CURRENT was such a good Idea, then the Concept of a KDE:NEXT would encourage more users to test. After all virtual machines are a snap these days. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

I DISAGREE. The whole concept of everybody having to have the newest version of software is STUPID. There is NO NEED to FIDDLE with the REPOSITORIES unless somebody wants to, and there is NO REASON to write a RANT about something as SIMPLE as just adding a repo through YaST which is there to prevent further bugs. That in itself is a very good idea. On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:09 PM, John Andersen wrote:

On 4/18/2014 3:57 AM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

...

John Andersen wrote:

...

On 4/17/2014 11:18 AM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

So the upshot is that you really *don't want any users to help test new releases* because of the need to constantly be fiddling with repositories ?!?

That is a pretty harsh conclusion that you draw here. The whole story around the repositories have been indicated already in previous posts.

The testing of new releases is done with KDE:Distro:Factory (as already for many years) as that this is the official development repository for the next openSUSE release. As soon as a beta version is released of the next KDE release, we also enable building for the current released openSUSE version so that we can prepare the packaging, see which updated libraries we require, etc. Users are more than welcome to jump to KDE:Distro:Factory at that moment to start testing the upcoming release. However these are beta quality software which could cause data loss, etc. I am not sure if this is what you are targeting if you already find fiddling with repositories cumbersome.

...

I applaud the creation of KDE:CURRENT. It greatly simplifies stuff.

And we want to keep it simple and safe. Based on feedback of many users, the decision was taken to delay a new release with about 1 to 2 weeks to make sure that there are no major breakages due to this new release, etc. So that people can upgrade from this repository in a safe way.

If this 1 to 2 weeks is too much (and for KDE 4.13 it was already announced that it would become available next week Friday 25 April), then the community should speak up and I am more than happy to drop a new release in KDE:Current as soon as it is being released. However this could mean that a major bug detected on the release day can not be fixed and people will face that bug.

Raymond

In your rant, Raymond, you have entirely mistaken what I was talking about.

The problem is, those of us willing to run on the "not quite bleeding, but still raw" edge to test newer releases, are dissuaded from doing so because of the need to forever fiddle with our repository settings, allow vendor changes, etc., due to newly appearing repositories that quickly then disappear.

Just give us a KDE:NEXT repository that we can put into out test machine and LEAVE it there, so we could be testing 4.13 today, and drift to 4.14 (or whatever is next) without having to change ANYTHING.

I test in a virtual machine. I'd like to set it up once, with a repository structure that doesn't change so often.

If the CONCEPT of KDE:CURRENT was such a good Idea, then the Concept of a KDE:NEXT would encourage more users to test. After all virtual machines are a snap these days.

-- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org