John wrote:

On Thursday, November 04, 2010 18:32 Linda Walsh wrote:

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Um...are you for real? It is obvious that the current system is confusing for you too, since you took a list discussion, about configure the list and then forget to actually send it to the list.

No, you idiot, that e-mail of yours ended up in my *private* account so I *replied* to you with the 'reply' button, not the 'reply to list' button. Get a clue or get bent, either way it's still *YOU* trying to make the world evolve around *YOU* instead of doing what the rules of this list ask you to do.

==== That's exactly what I did. So why is there a problem when I do it, but I'm and idiot when you do it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/05/2010 11:07 AM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

Yes it does. When a list is properly setup, as this one is, there appears an extra button that you can click on the keep the replies to the list. But I can see you are either too lazy/ stupid to use it.

FWIW, it appears that Linda is using T-Bird 2.0.0.24. This is an older version of T-Bird and it did not have a "reply list" button that T-Bird 3 has. It only had the option of "Reply" and "Reply-All". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 05 November 2010 14:19:02 Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:

On 11/5/2010 1:36 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

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On 11/05/2010 11:07 AM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

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Yes it does. When a list is properly setup, as this one is, there appears an extra button that you can click on the keep the replies to the list. But I can see you are either too lazy/ stupid to use it.

FWIW, it appears that Linda is using T-Bird 2.0.0.24. This is an older version of T-Bird and it did not have a "reply list" button that T-Bird 3 has. It only had the option of "Reply" and "Reply-All".

I recall using that version and using an add on that put a reply to list button on menu bar. So while it may bolster her argument a little bit, the add on also proves her wrong. Also the fact she hasn't upgraded TB and still uses an old version is *her* choice.

Not to even mention her vocabulary. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 05 November 2010 15:09:27 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Stan Goodman [11-05-10 08:41]:

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Not to even mention her vocabulary.

Stubborn she is, but her vocabulary is impeccable. JB's is not. Get on the right horse, Stan.

If I decoded the stacked quotations incorrectly, I apologize. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/05/2010 08:19 PM, Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:

On 11/5/2010 1:36 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

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On 11/05/2010 11:07 AM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

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Yes it does. When a list is properly setup, as this one is, there appears an extra button that you can click on the keep the replies to the list. But I can see you are either too lazy/ stupid to use it. FWIW, it appears that Linda is using T-Bird 2.0.0.24. This is an older version of T-Bird and it did not have a "reply list" button that T-Bird 3 has. It only had the option of "Reply" and "Reply-All".

I recall using that version and using an add on that put a reply to list button on menu bar. So while it may bolster her argument a little bit, the add on also proves her wrong. Also the fact she hasn't upgraded TB and still uses an old version is *her* choice.

The point is simply that she is not lazy or stupid in not using the "reply to list" since that isn't presented as an option to her. It also cannot be presumed that she would know or need to know, or be required to know that she should install an extension to give her the functionality. However... It should simply be pointed out to her that this particular list is configured to not munge headers. Maybe point her to http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_lists or more specifically http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_lists#Why_do_my_replies_go_to_the_or... in order to explain how things are done on this list. It is not a question of right or wrong. It is simply a question of how things are done here. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/05/2010 09:40 AM the voices made Patrick Shanahan write:

* Ed Greshko [11-05-10 10:22]:

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However... It should simply be pointed out to her that this particular list is configured to not munge headers. Maybe point her to http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_lists or more specifically http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Mailing_lists#Why_do_my_replies_go_to_the_or...

*That* is what started this ridiculous diatribe. I stand guilty as charged.

And it was off-list, which she decided to reply/address on-list. No-No.

If the above links are going to be referred to in making the case, then the "Considered Harmful" link should get fixed. Perhaps this instead: http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html or similar. Parallels to openSUSE could probably be drawn from the document at this link also: http://petdance.com/perl/geek-culture/ -- MG -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Linda Walsh [11-05-10 18:30]:

When I replied to Ken Scheider@opensuse, it defaulted to going to the list.

So it is obvious to me that people can choose whether responses to them goto the list, or goto them and require Cc'ing the list to keep the rest of the list in the loop.

*You* still do not understand. Ken has added a Reply-To: header directed to the list in his outgoing mail. He *added* it.

For people to configure their emailers to reply to them, then complain that people respond to them and not to the list, is what I am saying is ridiculous.

People are *not* configuring their emailers to reply to them. That is the normal/default configuration for *most* email clients.

That Ken can do it shows me it's not only a list-choice, but also an individual choice. So why do people choose to have replies go only to themselves, but then complain when that happens or when they get it, and the list is also Cc'ed?

So everyone else should configure their email client to make up for *your* choice to use a *broken* email client.

I get dual messages to my posting much of the time -- and prefer it that way -- IF they are responding to me.

You are entitled to your own preference, *but* that is not the norm!

I have nearly 100 active email lists, and its better for me, that if people are sending a response to something I said, that they be sure to direct it to me in addition to the list, since I'll see email messages w/my name in the To/Cc line much more quickly than ones to a list.

again, *your* choice.

I don't read each list every day. I don't have time. But email directed to me gets read every day. I also like the email going to the group as well -- that way it ends up in the appropriate 'group' file so that I can visually follow the chain of discussion.

It all depends on if it is a response to me. I get them, sometimes, days faster when I'm on the Cc/To line.

It's a very sensible system -- like regular mail -- if my name is on the front, I'm more likely to look at it soon or at all, vs. 'Dear resident', or 'Occupant'.. etc. It's really no bother for me to delete extra copies -- I would MUCH prefer to have to delete an extra copy than to miss a reply intended for me altogether.

But *you* should not *impose* your preference on the "rest of the world".

I've only worked with email for a little over 20 years now, so I'm fairly certain I have some grasp as to what's reasonable to ask people to do or not, and generally don't complain about email problems cuz I can hit delete easier than complaining -- but when other people go out of their way to make trouble, I'm more than willing to explain to them that they could fix the problem themselves, or that it's simpler to hit delete than to write multiple notes to multiple people to correct a problem that could be fixed in the list software.

So if someone drives across your front lawn and leaves deep ruts, you will just fill them in and wait to do it again? I think not!

I've seen technical lists go both ways.

So 1) it's possible for the list software to be fixed to be consistent with the supposed list policy 2) it's possible for users to individually fix their response field such that it goes to the list, so they don't have to harass anyone who falls into their trap. Since, that's what it seems to be. They have to choice to have people's responses goto the list like they want, but instead they choose to have it setup such that responses come to them -- AND THEN they complain when the responses do. Seems pretty malicious to me.

The maliciousness is all your in deliberately refusing to adhere to the list standards which have been presented to you. I suppose you would drive on the right side of the road in Britain and the left side in the US just because you want to. All of your arguments in the face of standards which have been brought to your attention mean nothing to you. Stubbornness! </end> :0 * ^From.*suse\@tlinx\.org /dev/null Now I have configured my email system to not receive double copies of mail from you. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

It was not possible to scan this message completely. You should not assume that it is free of viruses. On 11/06/2010 06:29 AM, Linda Walsh wrote:

Michael S. Dunsaavage wrote:

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On 11/5/2010 1:36 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

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On 11/05/2010 11:07 AM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

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Yes it does. When a list is properly setup, as this one is, there appears an extra button that you can click on the keep the replies to the list. But I can see you are either too lazy/ stupid to use it. FWIW, it appears that Linda is using T-Bird 2.0.0.24. This is an older version of T-Bird and it did not have a "reply list" button that T-Bird 3 has. It only had the option of "Reply" and "Reply-All".

I recall using that version and using an add on that put a reply to list button on menu bar. So while it may bolster her argument a little bit, the add on also proves her wrong. Also the fact she hasn't upgraded TB and still uses an old version is *her* choice.

New version is broken.

Old version uses about 100M on my local hard disk (I use IMAP). New version -- tried it 4 times -- and no matter how I configure it, it ends up using over 1.4G on my local hard disk.

I think maybe you don't know how to configure T-Bird. I also use IMAP. On my all of my folders take up 2.3GB. On my desktop machine, where I do use a few local files, 410MB. I'm using T-Bird 3.1.6 So, it isn't "broken". I think you need to grasp the reality that you are but a single person on this list. The majority has spoken long ago as to how they wanted their list server configured for this group. The "issue" you bring up does surface from time to time. The majority of people on this list continue to desire the current list behavior. So, you can either adapt or you can exit the list. You could continue to harp on what you want...but it won't get you anywhere and it will only result in your being alienated. People have long memories.

On 11/06/2010 08:18 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

I also use IMAP. On my all of my folders take up 2.3GB. On my desktop machine, where I do use a few local files, 410MB. I'm using T-Bird 3.1.6

That should have read... On my "IMAP server" all of my folders take up 2.GB.... (Long, liquid night....) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

On 11/04/2010 07:32 PM, Linda Walsh pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

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JB, , wrote:

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--- On Wed, 11/3/10, Linda Walsh wrote:

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From: Linda Walsh <snip> Not at all.� Thunderbird has no way to know how a list is setup.

Yes it does. When a list is properly setup, as this one is, there appears an extra button that you can click on the keep the replies to the list. But I can see you are either too lazy/ stupid to use it.

Here's a copy of what I see. http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3906/tbirdinterface1.jpg I see no reply to list. Lazy? Stupid? What do you call people who make statements that are provably false? FWIW -- I hit reply on YOUR email, and by default, it went to the list. So whatever settings YOU are using -- my emailer DOESN'T have a problem with. So perhaps you should help the other stupid dweebs who don't know how to setup their mailers to your settings -- since yours work! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 15:51, Peter Nikolic wrote:

Why this continual whinge i will never know , i do know it is becoming bloody stupid

Simple... and this is not a comment in support of either side of the argument... this list acts completely different than most other USER email lists (yes, I know many other developer mail lists are configured like the openSUSE lists, and they've been pointed out in the past... that's irrelevant to the user base which is a totally different demographic). Please... don't try to tell me to use a real email client or grump at me about how this list is right and others are wrong. I'm OK with how this list is configured.. I'm used to it after 12 years... I'm simply pointing out that this list does not operate as the majority of the generic userbase expects. So instead of flaming them and calling them stupid idiots, and generally making an ass out of yourself, just simply and politely point to the list configuration FAQ has has been done now and save your expletive filled and frankly, embarrassing, diatribes for 4chan or some other appropriate low class venue. We're here to help people, not drive them off because they don't understand why this mailing list is wonkey in their experience. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 05 Nov 2010 15:03:34 C wrote:

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 16:01, C wrote:

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On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 15:51, Peter Nikolic wrote:

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Why this continual whinge i will never know , i do know it is becoming bloody stupid

Simple... and this is not a comment in support of either side of the

Oh, and this wasn't directed at you Peter N.... mainly at JB, but at anyone else who looses their cool over this common ssue.

C.

ok ignore the next one that lands then .. pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.7-0.5-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) "release 3" 21:53 up 1 day 6:47, 4 users, load average: 0.82, 0.65, 0.53 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 05 Nov 2010 15:01:56 C wrote:

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 15:51, Peter Nikolic wrote:

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Why this continual whinge i will never know , i do know it is becoming bloody stupid

Simple... and this is not a comment in support of either side of the argument... this list acts completely different than most other USER email lists (yes, I know many other developer mail lists are configured like the openSUSE lists, and they've been pointed out in the past... that's irrelevant to the user base which is a totally different demographic).

Please... don't try to tell me to use a real email client or grump at me about how this list is right and others are wrong. I'm OK with how this list is configured.. I'm used to it after 12 years... I'm simply pointing out that this list does not operate as the majority of the generic userbase expects.

So instead of flaming them and calling them stupid idiots, and generally making an ass out of yourself, just simply and politely point to the list configuration FAQ has has been done now and save your expletive filled and frankly, embarrassing, diatribes for 4chan or some other appropriate low class venue. We're here to help people, not drive them off because they don't understand why this mailing list is wonkey in their experience.

C. Once again C you jump in head first and start on me one of these days hummm nuff said

-- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.7-0.5-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) "release 3" 21:51 up 1 day 6:46, 4 users, load average: 0.86, 0.63, 0.51 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org