Re: [opensuse] Improved performance with NVidia drivers
On 2013-09-19T10:49:20, C <smaug42@opensuse.org> wrote:
Some distro communities complied with their demands (RH, openSUSE etc)... others didn't (PCLOS, and from what I can tell, Debian... the nVIDIA drivers are in the non-free repo for Debian).
The others violate the license terms of the Linux kernel. They get away with it by being ignored and not interesting targets to sue; RHT or SUSE would not fall through the gaps. The NVidia drivers don't explicitly forbid it, but they are incompatible with the Linux kernel terms. Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 19/09/13 22:30, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
On 2013-09-19T10:49:20, C <smaug42@opensuse.org> wrote:
Some distro communities complied with their demands (RH, openSUSE etc)... others didn't (PCLOS, and from what I can tell, Debian... the nVIDIA drivers are in the non-free repo for Debian). The others violate the license terms of the Linux kernel. They get away with it by being ignored and not interesting targets to sue; RHT or SUSE would not fall through the gaps.
The NVidia drivers don't explicitly forbid it, but they are incompatible with the Linux kernel terms.
Regards, Lars
Forgive me but what has the kernel licence terms have to do with the use of the nVidia driver? The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right? BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
Forgive me but what has the kernel licence terms have to do with the use of the nVidia driver?
The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right?
When I installed the drivers from the NVidia repository, I got a new kernel. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/09/13 00:10, James Knott wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
Forgive me but what has the kernel licence terms have to do with the use of the nVidia driver?
The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right? When I installed the drivers from the NVidia repository, I got a new kernel.
That doesn't "compute" :-) . If you received a new kernel when you installed the driver then it was purely a conicidence as far as I am concerned. But then never having used the nvidia repo (I always download directly from the nVidia site and then compile the driver to suit the kernel) there may be such a connexion which you experienced :-) . BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
When I installed the drivers from the NVidia repository, I got a new kernel.
That doesn't "compute" :-) . If you received a new kernel when you installed the driver then it was purely a conicidence as far as I am concerned.
But then never having used the nvidia repo (I always download directly from the nVidia site and then compile the driver to suit the kernel) there may be such a connexion which you experienced :-) .
As I mentioned in another note, I got a pop up message telling me to reboot. There is also a new entry in the grub menu. However, when I look in /boot, the latest kernel date is June 7 on both default and desktop kernels. But for some reason, the grub menu shows the desktop kernal as default, as it was before, even though the new entries are for the default kernel. I'm really not sure what's going on, as I don't have any expertise in this area, but I do know I got that pop up to reboot. BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2013-09-19 at 11:19 -0400, James Knott wrote:
As I mentioned in another note, I got a pop up message telling me to reboot. There is also a new entry in the grub menu. However, when I look in /boot, the latest kernel date is June 7 on both default and desktop kernels. But for some reason, the grub menu shows the desktop kernal as default, as it was before, even though the new entries are for the default kernel. I'm really not sure what's going on, as I don't have any expertise in this area, but I do know I got that pop up to reboot.
If the driver specifies that it is compiled for the default kernel, you get that kernel installed. A recomendation or a dependency, I do not know. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI7M7wACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UBBgCfXdjebLtf2Jug3HCrRzzNYm1E k0oAnR1D/VDBT9ZuYNvbA8A5j/EtCGR1 =3U7E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If the driver specifies that it is compiled for the default kernel, you get that kernel installed. A recomendation or a dependency, I do not know.
Yet it left grub pointing to the desktop kernel as the default selection. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/09/13 01:19, James Knott wrote:
When I installed the drivers from the NVidia repository, I got a new kernel. That doesn't "compute" :-) . If you received a new kernel when you installed the driver then it was purely a conicidence as far as I am concerned.
But then never having used the nvidia repo (I always download directly from the nVidia site and then compile the driver to suit the kernel) there may be such a connexion which you experienced :-) . As I mentioned in another note, I got a pop up message telling me to reboot. There is also a new entry in the grub menu. However, when I look in /boot, the latest kernel date is June 7 on both default and desktop kernels. But for some reason, the grub menu shows the desktop kernal as default, as it was before, even though the new entries are for
Basil Chupin wrote: the default kernel. I'm really not sure what's going on, as I don't have any expertise in this area, but I do know I got that pop up to reboot.
BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc.
Why do you wanna do that for? :-) Does the Does the version number give you nightmares or sumthin'? :-) I never touch anything in there 'cause messing around with anything grub/bootloader is just asking for trouble :-) . "If it ain't broke don't fix it", as the Actress said to the Bishop. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc.
Why do you wanna do that for? :-) Does the Does the version number give you nightmares or sumthin'? :-)
I never touch anything in there 'cause messing around with anything grub/bootloader is just asking for trouble :-) .
"If it ain't broke don't fix it", as the Actress said to the Bishop.
If changing a label causes problems, then grub is in rough shape. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/09/13 00:08, James Knott wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc. Why do you wanna do that for? :-) Does the Does the version number give you nightmares or sumthin'? :-)
I never touch anything in there 'cause messing around with anything grub/bootloader is just asking for trouble :-) .
"If it ain't broke don't fix it", as the Actress said to the Bishop. If changing a label causes problems, then grub is in rough shape.
:-) I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list.
It looks better. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
James Knott said the following on 09/20/2013 10:15 AM:
Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list.
It looks better.
Ah, so you spend a great deal of time looking at the boot menu and contemplating its aesthetics? More time, perhaps, than you spend each morning looking at your self in the mirror while shaving? -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/09/13 00:21, Anton Aylward wrote:
James Knott said the following on 09/20/2013 10:15 AM:
Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list.
It looks better.
Ah, so you spend a great deal of time looking at the boot menu and contemplating its aesthetics?
More time, perhaps, than you spend each morning looking at your self in the mirror while shaving?
"Great minds think alike" :-D BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/09/13 00:15, James Knott wrote:
Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list. It looks better.
Aaaah - you are one of those people who framed the menu list and have it hung on the wall so that you can admire it, right? :-D BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2013-09-21 at 00:13 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list.
Grub2 uses very long names that go out of the screen, in such a way that as all labels on the left side read the same (version is on the right side), it is impossible to know what you are booting except by guessing and counting lines. :-/ So yes, of course I edit them, to remove suprfluous text. And on next kernel upgrade it gets undone, and I have to edit it again. :-/ - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+ya8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XWDQCgjo60hWW1cZBmIA+ryqqs7la4 dA0AnRGTaqUYesLeurWM3yN2uAzLu56l =6fBP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 22/09/13 20:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Saturday, 2013-09-21 at 00:13 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
I was just wondering why you need to go to the trouble of editing the menu list.
Grub2 uses very long names that go out of the screen, in such a way that as all labels on the left side read the same (version is on the right side), it is impossible to know what you are booting except by guessing and counting lines. :-/
So yes, of course I edit them, to remove suprfluous text.
And on next kernel upgrade it gets undone, and I have to edit it again. :-/
Sorry but I simply do not understand. I upgrade to a new kernel everytime one becomes available and I have NEVER edited anything[#]. I simply run grub2-mkconfig and that's it. AND I have several operating systems installed (12.2, 12.3, Tumbleweed, 13.1, Ubuntu 13.04, Windows 7 Professional). [#] The only thing I do edit is the /boot directory where I delete the old kernel files. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 21:08 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 22/09/13 20:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So yes, of course I edit them, to remove suprfluous text.
And on next kernel upgrade it gets undone, and I have to edit it again. :-/
Sorry but I simply do not understand. I upgrade to a new kernel everytime one becomes available and I have NEVER edited anything[#]. I simply run grub2-mkconfig and that's it. AND I have several operating systems installed (12.2, 12.3, Tumbleweed, 13.1, Ubuntu 13.04, Windows 7 Professional).
So do I, but the menu only reads something like "opensuse 12.3 ker..." and the kernel version is not written, it disappears on the right hand side. I don't claim to understand it. It just IS that way here. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+1QsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VFNQCeNmS9SKdDUYhgzzDzmLEXtJZ9 728AoJDhooHURRQWn+M1kDdziShkB/o1 =5zGL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 13:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 21:08 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 22/09/13 20:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So do I, but the menu only reads something like "opensuse 12.3 ker..." and the kernel version is not written, it disappears on the right hand side.
I don't claim to understand it. It just IS that way here.
see here: <http://susepaste.org/28913897> Entries 2 and 4 are the failsafes, 1 and 3 are normal, with different kernel versions. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+2WsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UH2gCdHbEXU4n2b2rdGwgFTFHxC2ml NrkAniel+ECMJWp2LMkgzWxb3Xwc/W5c =8qHF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 22/09/13 12:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 13:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 21:08 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 22/09/13 20:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So do I, but the menu only reads something like "opensuse 12.3 ker..." and the kernel version is not written, it disappears on the right hand side.
I don't claim to understand it. It just IS that way here.
see here:
<http://susepaste.org/28913897>
Entries 2 and 4 are the failsafes, 1 and 3 are normal, with different kernel versions.
The Yast bootloader module allows you to specify the resolution in the "bootloader options" dialog... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:27:17 +0100 Dylan <dylan@dylan.me.uk> пишет:
The Yast bootloader module allows you to specify the resolution in the "bootloader options" dialog...
I'd rather say it is theme issue - it leaves too little space for menu entries. At 800x600 (which is the only VM resolution that fits on my screen) I see exactly the same. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 17:32 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
I'd rather say it is theme issue - it leaves too little space for menu entries. At 800x600 (which is the only VM resolution that fits on my screen) I see exactly the same.
Of course the theme is a big part of the issue. Grub2 uses less than half of the total screen, in a window in the middle. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+9AwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U6FwCgjiUzbhjQEicMCsk0UHatQroE hzIAn0t1lWLvoLHk/J7klA4AO4GWYemr =BsMn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 22/09/2013 15:27, Dylan a écrit :
The Yast bootloader module allows you to specify the resolution in the "bootloader options" dialog...
and much better, YaST allows you to change the theme of the stating menu: you can change the file which default here /boot/grub2/themes/openSUSE/theme.txt and there I see things like: + boot_menu { left = 33% width = 50% top = 25% that seem's pretty obvious to use (left 10% and width 90% being a good start) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 15:40 +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 22/09/2013 15:27, Dylan a écrit :
and there I see things like:
+ boot_menu { left = 33% width = 50% top = 25%
that seem's pretty obvious to use (left 10% and width 90% being a good start)
Thanks, that's a good idea. I wrote left 5, width 90, and it works on the lowest resolution, 800*?. However, the openSUSE logo is then overwritten. Then, the theme should be different for low resolutions than for high resolutions. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAlI+9yAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UI0wCY6vHF99luPXYt7DTpvJEepYru gACgkrssepvMSbFWC5ShTNzv4LB4D2c= =525c -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Le 22/09/2013 15:56, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Thanks, that's a good idea. I wrote left 5, width 90, and it works on the lowest resolution, 800*?.
However, the openSUSE logo is then overwritten.
Then, the theme should be different for low resolutions than for high resolutions.
my reasonig is that bin some tweek on such a file is a solution, writing on bugzilla an enhancement demand with most of the solution may have a result. Devs like already done work :-)) as everybody may be also some sort of "short menu" option in /etc/sysconfig/bootloader I just discover this solution, but already had similar problems with menus :-) :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 14:27 +0100, Dylan wrote:
On 22/09/13 12:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
see here:
<http://susepaste.org/28913897>
Entries 2 and 4 are the failsafes, 1 and 3 are normal, with different kernel versions.
The Yast bootloader module allows you to specify the resolution in the "bootloader options" dialog...
It does, and I tried. The photo shows the max resolution I can afford. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+9LUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XidACZAS4BFCkfaVnsMfeMfRIXQxLE iKQAnRy3twuVC4BgTqLWgJNyEQrc6G+6 =eKk4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 22/09/13 21:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 13:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 21:08 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 22/09/13 20:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So do I, but the menu only reads something like "opensuse 12.3 ker..." and the kernel version is not written, it disappears on the right hand side.
I don't claim to understand it. It just IS that way here.
see here:
<http://susepaste.org/28913897>
Entries 2 and 4 are the failsafes, 1 and 3 are normal, with different kernel versions.
But hang on there...... You are using this in VMWare and not in a normal installation of oS. What does the REAL grub2 menu look like when you have booted the computer? You probably will need to use a camera to take a screen shot of it because you have no screengrab until oS is actually running, right? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2013-09-23 at 00:21 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 22/09/13 21:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<http://susepaste.org/28913897>
Entries 2 and 4 are the failsafes, 1 and 3 are normal, with different kernel versions.
But hang on there...... You are using this in VMWare and not in a normal installation of oS.
So what? It is the only installation I can boot right now and make photos fast. I have a laptop using the same _real_ resolution as that photo, but I can not reboot it in days or perhaps weeks.
What does the REAL grub2 menu look like when you have booted the computer? You probably will need to use a camera to take a screen shot of it because you have no screengrab until oS is actually running, right?
It has the same problem. Do not think that a virtual setup behaves different. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+/osACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XCuACdFvmBHFmPFELLF5l39BEOTX89 z9QAnRdGczQV4N4nd7ndeiYFWyHzMOZW =UotR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 22/09/2013 12:42, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
So yes, of course I edit them, to remove suprfluous text.
grub2? changes have to be made in /etc/grub.d jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 13:27 +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 22/09/2013 12:42, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
So yes, of course I edit them, to remove suprfluous text.
grub2?
changes have to be made in /etc/grub.d
AmonLanc:~ # ls /etc/grub.d/ 00_header 10_linux 20_linux_xen 20_memtest86+ 20_ppc_terminfo 30_os-prober 40_custom 41_custom 90_persistent README AmonLanc:~ # Where exactly? Those are scripts, I do not see how to _edit_ menu entries. -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
Le 22/09/2013 13:34, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Where exactly? Those are scripts, I do not see how to _edit_ menu entries.
I see this in "linux", that is obviously related to the menu text (see below) - but may be there are other ways. ........ if [ x$type != xsimple ] ; then case $type in recovery) title="$(gettext_printf "%s, with Linux %s (recovery mode)" "${os}" "${version}")" ;; *) title="$(gettext_printf "%s, with Linux %s" "${os}" "${version}")" ;; esac if [ x"$title" = x"$GRUB_ACTUAL_DEFAULT" ] || [ x"Previous Linux versions>$title" = x"$GRUB_ACTUAL_DEFAULT" ]; then replacement_title="$(echo "Advanced options for ${OS}" | sed 's,>,>>,g')>$(echo "$title" | sed 's,>,>>,g')" ............ did you simply try to pess "Esc" on the menu to have the text menu (I'm not sure this is still the case) jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:43:19 +0200 jdd <jdd@dodin.org> пишет:
did you simply try to pess "Esc" on the menu to have the text menu (I'm not sure this is still the case)
To get text menu in grub2 you need to switch output driver. Default (at least, on PC) is gfxmenu which supports all those fancy themes. To get text menu you need to enter command line ('c') and do "terminal_output console". Now pressing ESC will return you to (text) menu. Or disable graphic output in yast bootloader. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 15:53 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 13:43:19 +0200 jdd <> пишет:
did you simply try to pess "Esc" on the menu to have the text menu (I'm not sure this is still the case)
To get text menu in grub2 you need to switch output driver. Default (at least, on PC) is gfxmenu which supports all those fancy themes. To get text menu you need to enter command line ('c') and do "terminal_output console". Now pressing ESC will return you to (text) menu.
Just the thing to remember when looking at the grub screen and no other computer to look it up.
Or disable graphic output in yast bootloader.
For which you need to boot. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+3xYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WinACeJhhYofcvX4nwWxBJWrZ7ISKN WgEAn1cqCdMiwI3S32TZ4lEqyduJnLl8 =7mYJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 15:53 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
To get text menu in grub2 you need to switch output driver.
Even in 1024*768 (appropriate for a vmplayer window), text is still clipped on the right hand side. Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Or disable graphic output in yast bootloader.
which is a step backwards. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+4R4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XcFwCfT1aFb4jEuVPlBO6kw8Ghljny LDkAn33F49zNlalqKaprCc3iSHZuFnEK =ez87 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:22:54 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> пишет:
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Does grub legacy support shifting menu title? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+5wAACgkQR6LMutpd94yD5QCeLdJa1HbrNBBlOM9sr/D29Qwx YzQAn25Kq5myg7Im/AVlWE6eeMTfUsfH =qU7c -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 16:47 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:22:54 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Does grub legacy support shifting menu title?
Does grub legacy display half of the menu entry? Or use menu entries so long that they don't fit? Or once you edit a menu entry (to make it shorter), does it change the menu entry destroying your changes? Or do you need to learn coding to change menu entries? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+7j0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U2EACgj6MBBhK/6VdTy3o83VCVnq0z g84AoIjGd19AVt8xwNWMEUX+IbC52OnP =CQUg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 15:18:53 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> пишет:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 16:47 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:22:54 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Does grub legacy support shifting menu title?
Does grub legacy display half of the menu entry?
Or use menu entries so long that they don't fit?
Or once you edit a menu entry (to make it shorter), does it change the menu entry destroying your changes?
Or do you need to learn coding to change menu entries?
I asked you because I have not used grub legacy for a long time, do not have it installed anywhere and do not remember how it behaves. But apparently you are interested in ranting, at which point I'll leave you at it. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+8KQACgkQR6LMutpd94y1SACgif0GJuJjWnWQOv4fAKlMRlvn VMMAn2BvjvTLUWjmJnDDN/fg8QmQLNvF =Tjpq -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 4 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 17:29 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
В Sun, 22 Sep 2013 15:18:53 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <> пишет:
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Does grub legacy support shifting menu title?
Does grub legacy display half of the menu entry?
Or use menu entries so long that they don't fit?
Or once you edit a menu entry (to make it shorter), does it change the menu entry destroying your changes?
Or do you need to learn coding to change menu entries?
I asked you because I have not used grub legacy for a long time, do not have it installed anywhere and do not remember how it behaves.
Well, grub 1 behaves correctly. Ie, the answers to my questions above are "no" to all.
But apparently you are interested in ranting, at which point I'll leave you at it.
Well, that's your opinion. The problem is real, you defend devs by accusing me of ranting instead of accepting that grub2 has problems. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+8wEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XzqQCfRHNLzaNPdb5eFuYykbcFqWNz WTsAnAy6t2UHdzdCyD8NkaH2P8EZk9f8 =DdE8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 22/09/13 13:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 15:53 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
To get text menu in grub2 you need to switch output driver.
Even in 1024*768 (appropriate for a vmplayer window), text is still clipped on the right hand side.
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Have you thought to suggest wrapping the options somewhere the devs might see it and get to respond to it?
Or disable graphic output in yast bootloader.
which is a step backwards.
Whyso? The graphical boot menu might *look* nicer in various contexts, but is by no means a highly functional development - and clearly causes problems in some situations. Dylan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 14:20 +0100, Dylan wrote:
On 22/09/13 13:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Grub should know itself that the text does not fit in the window and wrap it up or allow the use of keys to shift it.
Have you thought to suggest wrapping the options somewhere the devs might see it and get to respond to it?
Do you really think the devs do not know about this problem?
which is a step backwards.
Whyso? The graphical boot menu might *look* nicer in various contexts, but is by no means a highly functional development - and clearly causes problems in some situations.
To me, text is nice. To many users coming to Linux, text is absurd, they will go away. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+868ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WnmgCfXtYWRJ8FlJjszTeMwGLUM5kA bpYAnje4cmLXbxqtFn1uyJSB/+oY25Y3 =ub8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1309221353560.9936@Telcontar.valinor> On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 13:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
Le 22/09/2013 13:34, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Where exactly? Those are scripts, I do not see how to _edit_ menu entries.
I see this in "linux", that is obviously related to the menu text (see below) - but may be there are other ways.
Too dificult. You have to be a coder to change menus. And surely that file will be overwrriten, you are supposed to use a "custom" file.
did you simply try to pess "Esc" on the menu to have the text menu (I'm not sure this is still the case)
It doesn't work. You can press "e" to edit one entry for this boot, but again, not easily. Grub2 is a pain in the... regarding customization as compared to grub1. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+2mYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WXRQCgh7R+48cwbQlfr863Uao3fvhW AG0AnRjGuklmkaoSpWG7zZfqugYXo3r8 =PB2U -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 2013-09-22 13:54 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Grub2 is a pain in the... regarding customization as compared to grub1.
On 2013-09-22 15:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
grub2 has problems.
Why are you still using it? I have more than a dozen 12.3 installations. None have Grub2 installed. All have Grub (Legacy) installed. Default selections cannot be optimal for everyone. The openSUSE installer recognizes this, and allows you to choose from among several bootloaders before package installation ever begins. And if you don't then, you can do the same thing in same manner after installation with YaST, either ncurses version or X version. Changing to Grub Legacy can also be done without YaST, using zypper, the Grub shell, and if necessary to tweak the boot menu content, your favorite text editor. If the graphical boot menu doesn't fit but you want to use it, see https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Gfxboot#Screen_size and fix yours. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 10:13 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-22 15:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
grub2 has problems.
Why are you still using it?
Because it is the future, and I expect they will remove grub 1 eventually. My desktop machine has grub 1. My laptop as well, but it runs 11.4. My ancient laptop has grub 2, and so do my auxiliary installs, and my vmplayer machines.
I have more than a dozen 12.3 installations. None have Grub2 installed. All have Grub (Legacy) installed. Default selections cannot be optimal for everyone.
Optimal is one thing. Workable is another. I suppose they only tested grub2 with a high resolution, wide screen display, there it is perfect. On lower spect machines, it is pretty bad. Fine as long as you only use the default boot, problematic otherwise. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI+/cIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VJpgCdGtr2KzYFBlxnOlT59ImQ1uuD JR4AnRaCdRGCToi9tm3KAnarjHoJ6FcR =bZwH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [09-22-13 10:26]:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 10:13 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: [...]
I have more than a dozen 12.3 installations. None have Grub2 installed. All have Grub (Legacy) installed. Default selections cannot be optimal for everyone.
Optimal is one thing. Workable is another.
I suppose they only tested grub2 with a high resolution, wide screen display, there it is perfect. On lower spect machines, it is pretty bad. Fine as long as you only use the default boot, problematic otherwise.
Yes, linux is no longer the operating system that runs on minimal equipment w/o many special adjustments/package selections, unless you utilize a distro specifically for miniminal installs. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-09-22 16:25 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 10:13 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-22 15:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
grub2 has problems.
Why are you still using it?
Because it is the future,
So what? You're breathing 12.3 today.
and I expect they will remove grub 1 eventually.
Why not cross that bridge if and when you reach it?
Optimal is one thing. Workable is another.
12.3 was out the door months ago. Try it in 13.1. If it's still a problem, file a bug if there isn't one already, or comment in or at least CC an existing one.
I suppose they only tested grub2 with a high resolution, wide screen display, there it is perfect. On lower spect machines, it is pretty bad. Fine as long as you only use the default boot, problematic otherwise.
Not every developer has an unlimited supply of environments to test with. Probably close to the opposite is the reality. Everything cannot be tested via VM. It's up to the community to fill in the gaps during development, not wait to complain after GA. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 10:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-22 16:25 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
12.3 was out the door months ago. Try it in 13.1. If it's still a problem, file a bug if there isn't one already, or comment in or at least CC an existing one.
The estimated download time of 13.1 here is 120 hours. By the time I can download Beta 1, it will already be Beta 2.
I suppose they only tested grub2 with a high resolution, wide screen display, there it is perfect. On lower spect machines, it is pretty bad. Fine as long as you only use the default boot, problematic otherwise.
Not every developer has an unlimited supply of environments to test with. Probably close to the opposite is the reality. Everything cannot be tested via VM. It's up to the community to fill in the gaps during development, not wait to complain after GA.
Trying grub 2 theme on different resolutions is not rocket science, it took me a few minutes. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI/MF0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VzyACfUG/kWZFarpO0bxkRdgriEccP fSMAn0nuPr7nTRHt2O0568txWnWi3dF5 =eAOC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 20:01 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Sunday, 2013-09-22 at 10:57 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-22 16:25 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
12.3 was out the door months ago. Try it in 13.1. If it's still a problem, file a bug if there isn't one already, or comment in or at least CC an existing one.
The estimated download time of 13.1 here is 120 hours. By the time I can download Beta 1, it will already be Beta 2.
Downloaded and installed, under vmware. It did look better, aparently, but it is not. I booted both 12.3 and 13.1, stopped boot and put both windows side by side (vmplayer): they are exactly the same. I have to wait till I get two kernels installed, so that the "advanced options for opensuse" contains something more. But the kerrnel name is clipped at "Linux 3.11" - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlJILnwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WrggCaA6c/aCvjDCHyhKJqdcctn3MM Z5UAni5gyRiRSGhCqbxwdxo2pN6CARIg =pATN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 23/09/13 00:13, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-22 13:54 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Grub2 is a pain in the... regarding customization as compared to grub1.
On 2013-09-22 15:39 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
grub2 has problems.
Why are you still using it? I have more than a dozen 12.3 installations. None have Grub2 installed. All have Grub (Legacy) installed. Default selections cannot be optimal for everyone. The openSUSE installer recognizes this, and allows you to choose from among several bootloaders before package installation ever begins. And if you don't then, you can do the same thing in same manner after installation with YaST, either ncurses version or X version. Changing to Grub Legacy can also be done without YaST, using zypper, the Grub shell, and if necessary to tweak the boot menu content, your favorite text editor. If the graphical boot menu doesn't fit but you want to use it, see https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Gfxboot#Screen_size and fix yours.
My view is that you had better get used to grub2 as quickly as possible and don't keep looking back (just like with KDE 3). Grub2 is here to stay and grub legacy will eventually disappear and you will be stuck with something which nobody will know anything about. The other reason is that grub2 can handle the efi booting whereas grub legacy cannot. But of course this is your choice - including using other available bootloaders. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-09-23 00:27 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
My view is that you had better get used to grub2 as quickly as possible and don't keep looking back (just like with KDE 3).
The thing about bootloaders is they don't need upgrading when the OS has updates available. You can have dozens of bootloaders on a system, yet, many can get by with only one relatively ancient bootloader. Once you have a bootloader working, it needn't be changed. As long as the distros have symlinks to initrds and kernels, even its menu needn't be updated unless a new OS is added, symlink names are changed, or kernel/initrd host partitioning is modified.
Grub2 is here to stay
UEFI obsoletes all bootloaders. Most BIOS systems don't need Grub2 features lacking in Grub Legacy. For some it may be here to stay. For others it need never arrive.
and grub legacy will eventually disappear
Maybe once all BIOS systems are retired. It will continue to do what it does now even if yet to be released distros stop shipping it. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-09-22 11:15 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
On 2013-09-23 00:27 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
My view is that you had better get used to grub2 as quickly as possible and don't keep looking back (just like with KDE 3).
The thing about bootloaders is they don't need upgrading when the OS has updates available. You can have dozens of bootloaders on a system, yet, many
s/dozens of bootloaders/dozens of operating systems/
can get by with only one relatively ancient bootloader. Once you have a bootloader working, it needn't be changed. As long as the distros have symlinks to initrds and kernels, even its menu needn't be updated unless a new OS is added, symlink names are changed, or kernel/initrd host partitioning is modified.
Grub2 is here to stay
UEFI obsoletes all bootloaders. Most BIOS systems don't need Grub2 features lacking in Grub Legacy. For some it may be here to stay. For others it need never arrive.
and grub legacy will eventually disappear
Maybe once all BIOS systems are retired. It will continue to do what it does now even if yet to be released distros stop shipping it. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-09-20 23:09 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
James Knott wrote:
BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc.
Why do you wanna do that for? :-) Does the Does the version number give you nightmares or sumthin'? :-)
It reminds me of Windows, where app installation habitually appends a version number to an application title, not a whole lot unlike underscore-littered libs like libpython2_7-1_0 or libgimp-2_0-0 or backends like gstreamer-0_10. Current/latest kernel's version number doesn't need to be in the default or latest failsafe stanzas. It's obfuscatory noise.
I never touch anything in there 'cause messing around with anything grub/bootloader is just asking for trouble :-) .
No trouble here except for yast2-bootloader habitually disobeys my configuration specifications in /etc/sysconfig/bootloader.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it", as the Actress said to the Bishop.
"Ain't broke" is your assumption. Here, the only time running yast2-bootloader doesn't disfigure my menu.lst is when it follows uninstalling a kernel. On my systems the correct place for the digit to override the default target belongs as the last cmdline option, but yast2-bootloader always puts it elsewhere. Thus after every kernel installation I need to clean up after yast2-bootloader by manually editing menu.lst. c.f. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643984 https://features.opensuse.org/310673 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 21/09/13 01:25, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-09-20 23:09 (GMT+1000) Basil Chupin composed:
James Knott wrote:
BTW, I can easily tell what the change was in the grub menu, as on new installation, or kernel update, the menu lists the kernel version number. I always edit that down to just "Desktop" and "Failsafe" and get rid of the version number etc.
Why do you wanna do that for? :-) Does the Does the version number give you nightmares or sumthin'? :-)
It reminds me of Windows, where app installation habitually appends a version number to an application title, not a whole lot unlike underscore-littered libs like libpython2_7-1_0 or libgimp-2_0-0 or backends like gstreamer-0_10. Current/latest kernel's version number doesn't need to be in the default or latest failsafe stanzas. It's obfuscatory noise.
I never touch anything in there 'cause messing around with anything grub/bootloader is just asking for trouble :-) .
No trouble here except for yast2-bootloader habitually disobeys my configuration specifications in /etc/sysconfig/bootloader.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it", as the Actress said to the Bishop.
"Ain't broke" is your assumption. Here, the only time running yast2-bootloader doesn't disfigure my menu.lst is when it follows uninstalling a kernel. On my systems the correct place for the digit to override the default target belongs as the last cmdline option, but yast2-bootloader always puts it elsewhere. Thus after every kernel installation I need to clean up after yast2-bootloader by manually editing menu.lst.
c.f. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643984 https://features.opensuse.org/310673
In a response to me (in this list) some weeks ago, Andrey (Borzenko) quoted a bug report which he had submitted re the bootloader in YaST and which hasn't been actioned for at least 2 years, if I remember correctly. I don't know if this relates in any way to what you are mentioning above - perhaps Andrey can provide the answer (and whether my memory re what he wrote is correct :-) ). BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.1 & kernel 3.11.1-2 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2013-09-20 at 00:05 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:
Forgive me but what has the kernel licence terms have to do with the use of the nVidia driver?
The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right?
Wrong. The driver is connected to the kernel via a module or two, which are in fact, "kernel modules". The proprietary and binary only driver uses an open source kernel module to connect to it. This is, somehow, linking against the kernel, and distributing such a module in binary form is against the kernel license, like it or not. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlI7MzQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WHxwCfS1cgAXr4cc/ooBS/xU5sPISz wV4An1NO98DazqaZwbK1Qiqeg5SF5UeI =pagN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 19/09/13 11:05, Basil Chupin escribió:
Forgive me but what has the kernel licence terms have to do with the use of the nVidia driver?
The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right?
Kernel modules, at least from the technical POV, are "derived works" from the linux kernel and therefore should be made available with a license compatible with GPL. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-09-22T12:58:44, Cristian Rodríguez <crrodriguez@opensuse.org> wrote:
The driver is not incorporated into the kernel so there is no problem with distributing it, right? Kernel modules, at least from the technical POV, are "derived works" from the linux kernel and therefore should be made available with a license compatible with GPL.
That's not actually perfectly necessary (though nice, and makes developers happier). But if they are not, shipping them bundled with the kernel (like a distributor would do) is illegal - the entity doing so would lose all rights under the GPL, which would be sort of bad for a Linux vendor. That's the crux. Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Andrey Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Dylan -
Felix Miata -
James Knott -
jdd -
Lars Marowsky-Bree -
Patrick Shanahan