Any Suse Legal Eagles, I understand that buying a copy of Suse allows me to install on as many machines as I like. Does it also mean I can *GIVE* burnt copies to friends? My reading of this paragraph from COPYRIGHT.yast on the Suse 8.2 DVD is anything that doesn't involve payment is OK. 3. Dissemination It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE Linux AG or SuSE Linux. There are other clauses to consider if I start hacking YaST but at this stage I'm talking about straight CD duplication. -- Michael James michael.james@csiro.au System Administrator voice: 02 6246 5040 CSIRO Bioinformatics Facility fax: 02 6246 5166 PS: Further to this, if the Perth people are still looking for Suse 8.2 I'd recomend either Everythinglinux.com.au or LSL.com.au. I bought through Everythinglinux and while they had problems getting it in initially they now have it in stock, and are comitted to carrying a good range of Suse products. If it would make the difference between trying Suse or not I'd burn you the 5 CDs... That's assuming I am right about being allowed to.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 22 May 2003 21:20, Michael.James@csiro.au wrote:
Any Suse Legal Eagles,
I understand that buying a copy of Suse allows me to install on as many machines as I like.
Does it also mean I can *GIVE* burnt copies to friends?
My reading of this paragraph from COPYRIGHT.yast on the Suse 8.2 DVD is anything that doesn't involve payment is OK.
3. Dissemination It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE Linux AG or SuSE Linux.
There are other clauses to consider if I start hacking YaST but at this stage I'm talking about straight CD duplication.
-- Michael James michael.james@csiro.au System Administrator voice: 02 6246 5040 CSIRO Bioinformatics Facility fax: 02 6246 5166
PS: Further to this, if the Perth people are still looking for Suse 8.2 I'd recomend either Everythinglinux.com.au or LSL.com.au. I bought through Everythinglinux and while they had problems getting it in initially they now have it in stock, and are comitted to carrying a good range of Suse products.
If it would make the difference between trying Suse or not I'd burn you the 5 CDs... That's assuming I am right about being allowed to.
Correct. Obviously, SuSE would prefer that if the end-user decides to keep using the distribution; that they buy a registered copy. But: It does, however, read just as you stated; with respect to distribution of the product as a unaltered whole. - -- Thomas Jones Linux-Howtos Network Administrator OpenGPG Key: 0x6A3DF6E9 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+zZUEQT2komo99ukRAlE8AJ0V/yzIee0Nq8b2GoA0bSxzoJ8iJgCfcwj8 /mfdhQub0szwbDOhAu6Qf8s= =hQOk -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 12:20:12PM +1000, Michael.James@csiro.au wrote: : Any Suse Legal Eagles, : : I understand that buying a copy of Suse allows me : to install on as many machines as I like. : : Does it also mean I can *GIVE* burnt copies to friends? : : My reading of this paragraph : from COPYRIGHT.yast on the Suse 8.2 DVD : is anything that doesn't involve payment is OK. : : 3. Dissemination : It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have : been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior : written consent of SuSE Linux AG or SuSE Linux. : : There are other clauses to consider if I start hacking YaST : but at this stage I'm talking about straight CD duplication. I believe this means that unless SuSE authorizes you as an official duplicator, then you can't legally burn copies of the CDs. This has been covered a multitude of times. Please check this list's archives for more details. --Jerry Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death... ...It's much more important than that!
* Jerry A! (jerry@thehutt.org) [030522 21:14]: ->On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 12:20:12PM +1000, Michael.James@csiro.au wrote: ->: Any Suse Legal Eagles, ->: ->: I understand that buying a copy of Suse allows me ->: to install on as many machines as I like. ->: ->: Does it also mean I can *GIVE* burnt copies to friends? ->: ->: My reading of this paragraph ->: from COPYRIGHT.yast on the Suse 8.2 DVD ->: is anything that doesn't involve payment is OK. ->: ->: 3. Dissemination ->: It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have ->: been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior ->: written consent of SuSE Linux AG or SuSE Linux. ->: ->: There are other clauses to consider if I start hacking YaST ->: but at this stage I'm talking about straight CD duplication. -> ->I believe this means that unless SuSE authorizes you as an official ->duplicator, then you can't legally burn copies of the CDs. -> ->This has been covered a multitude of times. Please check this list's ->archives for more details. Unless it's changed and I didn't notice it. You can copy SuSE as many times as you like and give it to all your friends. As long as the copies are free. You can't charge them for the copies..well I suppose you could charge them $2.50 for the cost of the CD's or have them buy blank CD's for you. But they won't get any support what so ever from SuSE for these copies. Only a valid serial numbered copy will get support...and they do keep records of these things. So yes, you can copy it..you can't sell it for profit. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other going in the opposite direction.
On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 00:29, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
Unless it's changed and I didn't notice it. You can copy SuSE as many times as you like and give it to all your friends. As long as the copies are free. You can't charge them for the copies..well I suppose you could charge them $2.50 for the cost of the CD's or have them buy blank CD's for you. But they won't get any support what so ever from SuSE for these copies. Only a valid serial numbered copy will get support...and they do keep records of these things.
My take is that you can sell it for as much as you like, but you can't *sell* it and still call it "SuSE Linux." The software is yours; the only restriction under the GPL is that you release the source with the binaries. However, the trademarks and service marks of SuSE GmBH (I think that's how it goes) are SuSE's, and you're not allowed to use them to endorse whatever you're selling. So you can give it away all over the place, or call it "ESuS Linux" and sell it. I doubt anyone's going to come knocking if you only charge to cover your costs of duplication though... Regards, dk
On Friday 23 May 2003 07:31 am, David Krider wrote:
On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 00:29, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
Unless it's changed and I didn't notice it. You can copy SuSE as many times as you like and give it to all your friends. As long as the copies are free. You can't charge them for the copies..well I suppose you could charge them $2.50 for the cost of the CD's or have them buy blank CD's for you. But they won't get any support what so ever from SuSE for these copies. Only a valid serial numbered copy will get support...and they do keep records of these things.
My take is that you can sell it for as much as you like, but you can't *sell* it and still call it "SuSE Linux." The software is yours; the only restriction under the GPL is that you release the source with the binaries. However, the trademarks and service marks of SuSE GmBH (I think that's how it goes) are SuSE's, and you're not allowed to use them to endorse whatever you're selling.
First you are assuming everything on the SuSE cd is GPL. It isn't, so you can't distribute the whole CD in that way, you could distribute all the GPL software on the CD that way but not the non-GPL software.
So you can give it away all over the place, or call it "ESuS Linux" and sell it. I doubt anyone's going to come knocking if you only charge to cover your costs of duplication though...
You couldn't call it ESuS and sell it. That would be a trademark issue in most places. You are obviously trying to bank on the trademark of another company. Now if you didn't use the same capitalization and called it Esus you could probably get away with it. It is best to know what your redistribution rights are for the materials on the CD. The main issue seems to be YaST itself. Not GPL'ed and with a somewhat restrictive license. I don't remember what it is, and currently I am not running SuSE so I can't check.
On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 09:18, Anthony J Moulen wrote:
It is best to know what your redistribution rights are for the materials on the CD. The main issue seems to be YaST itself. Not GPL'ed and with a somewhat restrictive license. I don't remember what it is, and currently I am not running SuSE so I can't check.
Wow. I had no clue. This is certainly unexpected. I mean, yeah, I've become persuaded that Yast is pretty cool, but I never thought that it wouldn't be GPL. I skimmed the license docs on it, just to confirm that, and I'm still in shock. Thanks for the heads up, dk -- David "Dunkirk" Krider, http://www.davidkrider.com Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being." Linux: Will you use the power for good... or for AWESOME?
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 01:17:03PM -0500, David Krider wrote: : On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 09:18, Anthony J Moulen wrote: : : > It is best to know what your redistribution rights are for the materials on : > the CD. The main issue seems to be YaST itself. Not GPL'ed and with a : > somewhat restrictive license. I don't remember what it is, and currently I : > am not running SuSE so I can't check. : : Wow. I had no clue. This is certainly unexpected. I mean, yeah, I've : become persuaded that Yast is pretty cool, but I never thought that it : wouldn't be GPL. I skimmed the license docs on it, just to confirm that, : and I'm still in shock. : : Thanks for the heads up, And don't forget to add Sun-JDK/JRE and RealPlayer to the list. All of these programs have non-redistribution clauses. That's also why they're not available on the ftp install. --Jerry Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death... ...It's much more important than that!
On Friday 23 May 2003 20:27, Jerry A! wrote:
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 01:17:03PM -0500, David Krider wrote: : On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 09:18, Anthony J Moulen wrote: : > It is best to know what your redistribution rights are for the : > materials on the CD. The main issue seems to be YaST itself. Not : > GPL'ed and with a somewhat restrictive license. I don't remember what : > it is, and currently I am not running SuSE so I can't check. : : Wow. I had no clue. This is certainly unexpected. I mean, yeah, I've : become persuaded that Yast is pretty cool, but I never thought that it : wouldn't be GPL. I skimmed the license docs on it, just to confirm that, : and I'm still in shock. : : Thanks for the heads up,
And don't forget to add Sun-JDK/JRE and RealPlayer to the list. All of these programs have non-redistribution clauses. That's also why they're not available on the ftp install.
--Jerry
Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death... ...It's much more important than that!
SuSE is a company that has given much to the OSS community (ReiserFS is one example), and I understand very well that SuSE, of course, needs to make money. But after reading /usr/share/doc/packages/yast2/COPYRIGHT.english, I was surprised as well how draconian it sounded. Taken into consideration how central yast is (if one thinks SuSEconfig is part of yast), I'm not all that happy. Cheers Sigfred
I don't understand why this subject always ends up with people shouting at SuSE about YaST not being GPL'd. It seems it's not enough one can copy the CD's a thousand times and give them away for free. You can even get the source code of YaST and hack it every which way you can. You just can't sell it and make money out of SuSE's work, that's all there is to it. just my 2 cents. Marcel
SuSE is a company that has given much to the OSS community (ReiserFS is one example), and I understand very well that SuSE, of course, needs to make money. But after reading /usr/share/doc/packages/yast2/COPYRIGHT.english, I was surprised as well how draconian it sounded. Taken into consideration how central yast is (if one thinks SuSEconfig is part of yast), I'm not all that happy.
Cheers Sigfred
On Saturday 24 May 2003 01:30, Marcel Broekman wrote:
I don't understand why this subject always ends up with people shouting at SuSE about YaST not being GPL'd. It seems it's not enough one can copy the CD's a thousand times and give them away for free. You can even get the source code of YaST and hack it every which way you can. You just can't sell it and make money out of SuSE's work, that's all there is to it.
just my 2 cents. Marcel
But the licence is written in legaleze, and thus not that easy to understand, to put it mildly. On the other hand, I do buy DVD/CD sets from SuSE as well as from vendors of other operating systems that I try out. The license does not give a right to copy SuSE CD's, even for private/non profit use, as far as I can understand, unless I get a written permission. Note that SuSEconfig is pretty special to just SuSE, and as far as I can understand is part of yast. Check out the mails in the thread "What's keeps changing my inet.d sequence" in Suse security list for the confuscion SuSEconfig may give. I've got similar problems now and then with SuSEconfig (SuSEfirewall2 really)(as well as other), enough to dump SuSE for my home e-mail server. My workstation is still SuSE, though. Cheers Sigfred.
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 02:03:15AM +0200, Sigfred H?versen wrote:
The license does not give a right to copy SuSE CD's, even for private/non profit use, as far as I can understand, unless I get a written permission.
This is a wrong interpretation of the license. It does not allow copying for profit, and that's it. You are not allowed to sell copies, but giving them away is fine.
Note that SuSEconfig is pretty special to just SuSE, and as far as I can understand is part of yast. Check out the mails in the thread "What's keeps changing my inet.d sequence" in Suse security list for the confuscion SuSEconfig may give.
People just don't read documentation (actually, who RTFM?) and then get confused. man page of insserv(8) explains SuSE boot concept really well.
I've got similar problems now and then with SuSEconfig (SuSEfirewall2 really)(as well as other), enough to dump SuSE for my home e-mail server. My workstation is still SuSE, though.
Well, this is why there are so many Linux distros. You have a choice. I switched to SuSE 4 years ago and have nothing to complain about. Regards, -Kastus
On Saturday 24 May 2003 02:42, Kastus wrote:
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 02:03:15AM +0200, Sigfred H?versen wrote:
The license does not give a right to copy SuSE CD's, even for private/non profit use, as far as I can understand, unless I get a written permission.
This is a wrong interpretation of the license. It does not allow copying for profit, and that's it. You are not allowed to sell copies, but giving them away is fine.
As I wrote : the license is in legaleeze, and not that easy to interpret correctly, in particular since I'm not a lawyer.
Note that SuSEconfig is pretty special to just SuSE, and as far as I can understand is part of yast. Check out the mails in the thread "What's keeps changing my inet.d sequence" in Suse security list for the confuscion SuSEconfig may give.
People just don't read documentation (actually, who RTFM?) and then get confused. man page of insserv(8) explains SuSE boot concept really well.
I do read man pages and documentation, as well as mailing lists and homes pages of different programs like Postfix. And samples are quite popular with me as well. The man pages of OpenBSD are great : 'man starttls' gave me concrete commands how to make self-signed certificates for a mailserver, while 'man ssl' showed me how to do the same for Apache. And 'man afterboot' is cool as well. Try that on SuSE. One ends up googling to find how to hack CA.pl by adding '-nodes' in two places. What a kludge.
I've got similar problems now and then with SuSEconfig (SuSEfirewall2 really)(as well as other), enough to dump SuSE for my home e-mail server. My workstation is still SuSE, though.
Well, this is why there are so many Linux distros. You have a choice. I switched to SuSE 4 years ago and have nothing to complain about.
Regards, -Kastus
For me OpenBSD was much easier to make work as a server than SuSE, even though this was my first time BSD install. Cheers, Sigfred.
Jerry A!
And don't forget to add Sun-JDK/JRE and RealPlayer to the list. All of these programs have non-redistribution clauses. That's also why they're not available on the ftp install.
As these are available for download, free of charge, from the respective company web sites, why restrict the distribution? What is the difference between A giving a copy to B and B downloading exactly the same software?
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 09:20:22AM +0100, Graham Murray wrote:
: Jerry A!
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 09:54:09AM +0100, Graham Murray wrote:
: Jerry A!
On Friday 23 May 2003 12:31 pm, David Krider wrote:
On Fri, 2003-05-23 at 00:29, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
Unless it's changed and I didn't notice it. You can copy SuSE as many times as you like and give it to all your friends. As long as the copies are free. You can't charge them for the copies..well I suppose you could charge them $2.50 for the cost of the CD's or have them buy blank CD's for you. But they won't get any support what so ever from SuSE for these copies. Only a valid serial numbered copy will get support...and they do keep records of these things.
My take is that you can sell it for as much as you like, but you can't *sell* it and still call it "SuSE Linux." The software is yours; the only restriction under the GPL is that you release the source with the binaries.
But the CDs have plenty of non-GPL stuff on them, and that's the issue, I think. If you remade isos with gpl / bsd licensed stuff only, that might be different.
However, the trademarks and service marks of SuSE GmBH (I think that's how it goes) are SuSE's, and you're not allowed to use them to endorse whatever you're selling.
So you can give it away all over the place, or call it "ESuS Linux" and sell it. I doubt anyone's going to come knocking if you only charge to cover your costs of duplication though...
Regards, dk
participants (11)
-
Anthony J Moulen -
Ben Rosenberg -
David Krider -
Fergus Wilde -
Graham Murray -
Jerry A! -
Kastus -
Marcel Broekman -
Michael.James＠csiro.au -
Sigfred Håversen -
Thomas Jones