The only thing that concerns me is that the press release and webcast have a very strong interprise focus. They (Novell) mention the desktop (implying non-interprise users) but it appears that their primary focus is interprise. Maybe that is just all I read/heard. I am still holding on to hope but am quite skeptical.
That's Enterprise ;) (ahem, sorry, pedant hat off) You may have noticed that over the last few years, all anyone has ever mentioned regarding Linux has been Enterprise-support, Enterprise-ready, Enterprise-standard, Starship-Enterprise (ok, not the last one) That's where these companies make their money. Do you really think that selling boxed copies of SUSE Professional pays the salaries of however many people SUSE employ these days? No, it's the sales of SLES, especially on the Big Iron systems, it's Professional Services to (yes, you guessed it) Enterprises. What the consumer level of distribution does is it drives forward development, the Enterprise level of distribution doesn't get updated as often, in the name of stability, but the development work needs to be done somewhere. It builds mind share. It does make some money, but nothing like the Enterprise stuff. -- James Ogley, Webmaster, Rubber Turnip james@rubberturnip.org.uk http://www.rubberturnip.org.uk Jabber: riggwelter@myjabber.net Using Free Software since 1994, running GNU/Linux (SuSE 9.0) GNOME updates for SuSE: http://www.usr-local-bin.org
There is a survey at the following site, and only some questions are about home users. May be point "7) Other thoughts" a place to give our opinions about Pro version. http://www.novell.com/news/leadstories/2003/nov3/ James Ogley wrote:
The only thing that concerns me is that the press release and webcast have a very strong interprise focus. They (Novell) mention the desktop (implying non-interprise users) but it appears that their primary focus is interprise. Maybe that is just all I read/heard. I am still holding on to hope but am quite skeptical.
That's Enterprise ;)
(ahem, sorry, pedant hat off)
You may have noticed that over the last few years, all anyone has ever mentioned regarding Linux has been Enterprise-support, Enterprise-ready, Enterprise-standard, Starship-Enterprise (ok, not the last one)
That's where these companies make their money. Do you really think that selling boxed copies of SUSE Professional pays the salaries of however many people SUSE employ these days? No, it's the sales of SLES, especially on the Big Iron systems, it's Professional Services to (yes, you guessed it) Enterprises.
What the consumer level of distribution does is it drives forward development, the Enterprise level of distribution doesn't get updated as often, in the name of stability, but the development work needs to be done somewhere. It builds mind share. It does make some money, but nothing like the Enterprise stuff.
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 11:34, James Ogley wrote:
That's where these companies make their money. Do you really think that selling boxed copies of SUSE Professional pays the salaries of however many people SUSE employ these days? No, it's the sales of SLES, especially on the Big Iron systems, it's Professional Services to (yes, you guessed it) Enterprises.
What the consumer level of distribution does is it drives forward development, the Enterprise level of distribution doesn't get updated as often, in the name of stability, but the development work needs to be done somewhere. It builds mind share. It does make some money, but nothing like the Enterprise stuff.
This is the common thinking, but how do any of us really know it's true? In all the banter I've had on both this list and the Red Hat lists, I've never seen any Linux company come out and declare what portion of their income was from boxed sets versus support contracts versus their "enterprise" distros. Not that I'm saying that you're not correct, but it's always intrigued me specifically about SuSE because they never offered ISO's for free download. By far, the most convenient method of trying SuSE is to buy a boxed set. So, I just wonder how much money they make from that. dk
This is the common thinking, but how do any of us really know it's true? In all the banter I've had on both this list and the Red Hat lists, I've never seen any Linux company come out and declare what portion of their income was from boxed sets versus support contracts versus their "enterprise" distros. Not that I'm saying that you're not correct, but it's always intrigued me specifically about SuSE because they never offered ISO's for free download. By far, the most convenient method of trying SuSE is to buy a boxed set. So, I just wonder how much money they make from that.
I don't have any specific figures to hand, but I know that when I worked at SUSE the focus for the boxed distribution was mind share, and that professional services were coming on stream in the UK as a revenue stream, and that that had been the case in Germany for some time before. Since then, the SLES range has come out, a copy of SLES costs a lot (in the case of the S/390 version, a helluvalot) and I know that SUSE have shifted a not insignificant number of units of it. And all of them come with support contracts as well. -- James Ogley, Webmaster, Rubber Turnip james@rubberturnip.org.uk http://www.rubberturnip.org.uk Jabber: riggwelter@myjabber.net Using Free Software since 1994, running GNU/Linux (SuSE 9.0). GNOME updates for SuSE: http://www.usr-local-bin.org
And when I worked at SuSE (with James) the focus was still the same, and it still is to this day. Boxed is mind-share, enterprise is bucks. I doubt that it will change any time soon. Justin On 4 Nov 2003, at 17:53, James Ogley wrote:
This is the common thinking, but how do any of us really know it's true? In all the banter I've had on both this list and the Red Hat lists, I've never seen any Linux company come out and declare what portion of their income was from boxed sets versus support contracts versus their "enterprise" distros. Not that I'm saying that you're not correct, but it's always intrigued me specifically about SuSE because they never offered ISO's for free download. By far, the most convenient method of trying SuSE is to buy a boxed set. So, I just wonder how much money they make from that.
I don't have any specific figures to hand, but I know that when I worked at SUSE the focus for the boxed distribution was mind share, and that professional services were coming on stream in the UK as a revenue stream, and that that had been the case in Germany for some time before.
Since then, the SLES range has come out, a copy of SLES costs a lot (in the case of the S/390 version, a helluvalot) and I know that SUSE have shifted a not insignificant number of units of it.
And all of them come with support contracts as well. -- James Ogley, Webmaster, Rubber Turnip james@rubberturnip.org.uk http://www.rubberturnip.org.uk Jabber: riggwelter@myjabber.net Using Free Software since 1994, running GNU/Linux (SuSE 9.0). GNOME updates for SuSE: http://www.usr-local-bin.org
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The Tuesday 2003-11-04 at 20:33 -0000, Justin Davies wrote:
And when I worked at SuSE (with James) the focus was still the same, and it still is to this day. Boxed is mind-share, enterprise is bucks. I doubt that it will change any time soon.
Just a quick question, from one for whom English is not the first language: what is the meaning of "mind-share"? -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 04 November 2003 16:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Tuesday 2003-11-04 at 20:33 -0000, Justin Davies wrote:
And when I worked at SuSE (with James) the focus was still the same, and it still is to this day. Boxed is mind-share, enterprise is bucks. I doubt that it will change any time soon.
Just a quick question, from one for whom English is not the first language: what is the meaning of "mind-share"?
-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
Mind-Share means getting access to the public at large. Getting in the eyes and conversations of people outside or peripheral to a specific area ( or sector in this case..., as in IT). The store shelf is the venue for getting mind share. I bought SuSE after a friend gave me RH 5.x on a disk. I first bought Corel Linux as my off the shelf Linux distro, but Corel foundered and went the way of the Dodo - I saw this coming before they actually folded and decided to try another Linux disto. Enter "Maximum LInux" - The Magizine. I got an issue (well several for the matter) that had Mandrake 7.0 on it (or was it 7.1 - I think so). I tried Mandrake and got hooked on Linux. But the turn off for me was the manner in which one interfaced (via the web) with the company. To much commercial venting on the website to buy into stuff and little direct access to updates and support. I got tired of this. So, I have learned the basics of Linux and want something a little more! Now 2.4 is getting ready for release and I think,... Redhat or SuSE? I do some homework and chose SuSE and loved it. The first positive was this list. The help from soo many "pros" on the list and the patience and lack of conceit sold me on SuSE lot stock and barrel. Match that with Yast1 (the original yast) and the ability to update via the web, cd, floppy, or any dir on the drive and I was very very satisfied. So, mind share is what this is all about. Taking advantage of store fronts to get exposure. I would have never have tried SuSE if it weren't on the shelf. That's mind-share. Kinda like the military moto of "winning the hearts and minds of the people" ( in this case in an area of conflict). Cheers, Curtis. - -- Those who throw objects at the crocodiles will be asked to retrieve them. NOTICE TO SPAMMERS: NO TRESPASSING. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/qHKEiqnGhdjCOJsRAoG8AJwOLJqMG0r1qViiDLjXBgF4wVypigCdGjJp NlxhzrhQ/Z5Z9rihB5aRbog= =D9yC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Good day Carlos, Onsdag den 5. november 2003 01:02 kvad Carlos E. R.:
The Tuesday 2003-11-04 at 20:33 -0000, Justin Davies wrote:
And when I worked at SuSE (with James) the focus was still the same, and it still is to this day. Boxed is mind-share, enterprise is bucks. I doubt that it will change any time soon.
Just a quick question, from one for whom English is not the first language: what is the meaning of "mind-share"?
It means "public awarenes". Best regards :o) Johnny :o)
participants (7)
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Carlos E. R. -
Curtis Rey -
David Krider -
Francisco Acosta -
James Ogley -
Johnny Ernst Nielsen -
Justin Davies