Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places
it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version
4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
I use both Win4Lin and the Codeweavers' products. Many programs will run
acceptably under WINE, but there are a few that won't. Among them is
Remedy (v.4.5) and my bank's website (must have IE). I can fake it out by
mucking with the user agent under Konqueror, but it's not pretty. (Yes,
I've written to my bank, and they've written back assuring me of their deep
and abiding affection for all their customers - even geeks. No
improvements to their website yet, however.)
If all you need to run is a few programs, check to see if they'll run
acceptably under WINE. If not, Win4Lin is inexpensive and very well
supported.
Bill Sheehan
Postmaster
617-373-7927
"Jerry Feldman"
Please feel free to reply off list if you feel this is off topic.
W/ all the talk of codeweavers lately I was curious about peoples experience w/ win4lin on SuSE linux 7.2.
I currently run a dual boot but don't much like havinfg to leave linux just to run a win app.
Last night my daughter was working on a report for her 5th grade class, she muddled through w/ linux but I knew that she knew there was a win program that would have made her particular task so much easier. (ms Publisher)
Thanks for your thoughts
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
On Monday 03 June 2002 18.05, Bill Sheehan wrote:
In many places it's faster.
I would have thought that was a theoretical impossibility, considering that you are actually running windows, just not on the real hardware of your machine I haven't actually tried win4lin, this is just an observation //Anders -- `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
One place it is faster is when you do a restart. It also seems faster when opening programs. I'm not sure why this is, but restarts takes only a few seconds. On Monday 03 June 2002 12:09, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 03 June 2002 18.05, Bill Sheehan wrote:
In many places it's faster.
I would have thought that was a theoretical impossibility, considering that you are actually running windows, just not on the real hardware of your machine
I haven't actually tried win4lin, this is just an observation
//Anders
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El Lun 03 Jun 2002 10:05, escribiste:
Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version 4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
Win4Lin forces you to upgrade if you upgrade to a newer version of SuSE, whereas VMWare has remained compatible. I can install the same version of VMWare, be it Express 2 or Workstation 3 if I have RH 7.0, Mandrake 8.0, or SuSE 7.2, and it will run. Win4Lin 2 will not install except on RH7.0. I would have to upgrade to a newer version if I want to run SuSE 7.2. VMWare is more expensive, but you can install several operating systems on it, and have more flexibility. Plus it supports USB hardware. Regards. - -- Alfredo J. Cole http://www.acyc.com (Accounting Systems) http://www.clshonduras.com (Linux Hardware) PGP Key available from certserver.pgp.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8+5x7u5DxuPWE298RAieCAJ45ZlsDgw3zB2foAapCef4FUAkcsgCeOuzw ED7UgRgLOxv3Nh0S4QvbWYc= =R1/9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
VMWare is also an excellent product. VMWare is a fully functional Virtual Machine Architecture where you can run multiple versions of Linux, BSD, Windows 9x and Windows NT. Win4Lin, on the otherhand is a Linux application that acts as a container for Windows. The advantage of Win4Lin is that it uses the existing Linux file system such that the entire Windows directory is easily accessable to Linux. In a corporate environment, VMWare has an advantage because it can run Windows NT (eg. 2K and XP). (Please correct me if my info is not up to date). Each OS under VMWare uses its own file system which is not directly accessable to another OS, but while I have not tried this, I suspect that a running Windows 2K and Linux could share files via SMB/Samba. On 3 Jun 2002 at 10:42, Alfredo Cole wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
El Lun 03 Jun 2002 10:05, escribiste:
Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version 4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
Win4Lin forces you to upgrade if you upgrade to a newer version of SuSE, whereas VMWare has remained compatible. I can install the same version of VMWare, be it Express 2 or Workstation 3 if I have RH 7.0, Mandrake 8.0, or SuSE 7.2, and it will run. Win4Lin 2 will not install except on RH7.0. I would have to upgrade to a newer version if I want to run SuSE 7.2. VMWare is more expensive, but you can install several operating systems on it, and have more flexibility. Plus it supports USB hardware.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El Lun 03 Jun 2002 12:34, escribiste:
VMWare is also an excellent product. VMWare is a fully functional Virtual Machine Architecture where you can run multiple versions of Linux, BSD, Windows 9x and Windows NT. Win4Lin, on the otherhand is a Linux application that acts as a container for Windows.
The advantage of Win4Lin is that it uses the existing Linux file system such that the entire Windows directory is easily accessable to Linux.
In a corporate environment, VMWare has an advantage because it can run Windows NT (eg. 2K and XP). (Please correct me if my info is not up to date). Each OS under VMWare uses its own file system which is not directly accessable to another OS, but while I have not tried this, I suspect that a running Windows 2K and Linux could share files via SMB/Samba.
I have access to my native Linux filesystem under VMWare. It's a configuration option. I run it under SuSE 7.2 since I still have software which I developed using BC++ 5.02 and Borland Builder. I could never get BC++ 5 to compile anything with Win4Lin. Regards. - -- Alfredo J. Cole http://www.acyc.com (Accounting Systems) http://www.clshonduras.com (Linux Hardware) PGP Key available from certserver.pgp.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8+7n/u5DxuPWE298RAmalAJ9WaK0mzqbb8hWXLhOcuuLpJOLcRgCeO+AI U2LElK2qPQDL5hgWBryVX6k= =D0vm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Alfredo Cole wrote:
I have access to my native Linux filesystem under VMWare. It's a configuration option. I run it under SuSE 7.2 since I still have software which I developed using BC++ 5.02 and Borland Builder. I could never get BC++ 5 to compile anything with Win4Lin.
Hello In which vmware version you have the option to use *directly* navive Linux (ReiserFS etc.) filesystem? Last time I took a look at vmware, version3, I could not find any other way but install Windose on a virtual filesystem, one file that is -- and that way you cannot compare it's performance to win4lin. I would rather get rid of win4lin as I do not like the kernel tweaking it requires every time you upgrade your kernel. Cheers, --jq
At 14:34 06/03/2002 -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote:
VMWare is also an excellent product. VMWare is a fully functional Virtual Machine Architecture where you can run multiple versions of Linux, BSD, Windows 9x and Windows NT. Win4Lin, on the otherhand is a Linux application that acts as a container for Windows.
The advantage of Win4Lin is that it uses the existing Linux file system such that the entire Windows directory is easily accessable to Linux.
*************************************************************************** I spoke to the Win4Lin people at the NY Linux show at the Javits Center last Jan. or Feb., and they indicated that you have to install Linux, then Win4Lin, and then your Windows programs, in that order. NOT that you could access an existing Windows FS or its directories. I would have thought that they would know. I almost bought the program, until I discovered I would have to reinstall all sorts of things that require a "history" to permit you to do that. (I.e., AutoCad, the upgrades to which require you to have the previous version installed, and a couple of others. I am on about the 1998 edition of AC Lite, even tho there are more.) I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has installed Win4Lin and is running programs from a previously existing Windows FS, especially if the program calls different subdirectories, etc. (The last time I tried WINE on this problem, it bombed completely.)--doug ******************************************************************************
In a corporate environment, VMWare has an advantage because it can run Windows NT (eg. 2K and XP). (Please correct me if my info is not up to date). Each OS under VMWare uses its own file system which is not directly accessable to another OS, but while I have not tried this, I suspect that a running Windows 2K and Linux could share files via SMB/Samba.
On 3 Jun 2002 at 10:42, Alfredo Cole wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
El Lun 03 Jun 2002 10:05, escribiste:
Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version 4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
Win4Lin forces you to upgrade if you upgrade to a newer version of SuSE, whereas VMWare has remained compatible. I can install the same version of VMWare, be it Express 2 or Workstation 3 if I have RH 7.0, Mandrake 8.0, or SuSE 7.2, and it will run. Win4Lin 2 will not install except on RH7.0. I would have to upgrade to a newer version if I want to run SuSE 7.2. VMWare is more expensive, but you can install several operating systems on it, and have more flexibility. Plus it supports USB hardware.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com
Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com
VMWARE also carries a hefty price tag. However, for a business where you need multiple OSes there is nothing else even close. For my needs, which is simply to run Quicken, Turbo Tax and every now and then AOL (I monitor my kids useage), Win4Lin is perfect. On Monday 03 June 2002 14:34, Jerry Feldman wrote:
VMWare is also an excellent product. VMWare is a fully functional Virtual Machine Architecture where you can run multiple versions of Linux, BSD, Windows 9x and Windows NT. Win4Lin, on the otherhand is a Linux application that acts as a container for Windows.
The advantage of Win4Lin is that it uses the existing Linux file system such that the entire Windows directory is easily accessable to Linux.
In a corporate environment, VMWare has an advantage because it can run Windows NT (eg. 2K and XP). (Please correct me if my info is not up to date). Each OS under VMWare uses its own file system which is not directly accessable to another OS, but while I have not tried this, I suspect that a running Windows 2K and Linux could share files via SMB/Samba.
On 3 Jun 2002 at 10:42, Alfredo Cole wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
El Lun 03 Jun 2002 10:05, escribiste:
Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version 4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
Win4Lin forces you to upgrade if you upgrade to a newer version of SuSE, whereas VMWare has remained compatible. I can install the same version of VMWare, be it Express 2 or Workstation 3 if I have RH 7.0, Mandrake 8.0, or SuSE 7.2, and it will run. Win4Lin 2 will not install except on RH7.0. I would have to upgrade to a newer version if I want to run SuSE 7.2. VMWare is more expensive, but you can install several operating systems on it, and have more flexibility. Plus it supports USB hardware.
I think for most personal needs, Win4Lin fits the bill if your aps cannot run under WINE. I have not checked their web site, but I think they will have trouble with XP. Windows ME is the last Windows release based on Windows 9x technology. XP is based on NT, which is a much different engine. I would hope that Win4Lin can come up with a Windows XP version. On 3 Jun 2002 at 20:50, Jose Mirles wrote:
VMWARE also carries a hefty price tag. However, for a business where you need multiple OSes there is nothing else even close.
For my needs, which is simply to run Quicken, Turbo Tax and every now and then AOL (I monitor my kids useage), Win4Lin is perfect.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
On Tuesday 04 June 2002 08:16, Jerry Feldman wrote:
I think for most personal needs, Win4Lin fits the bill if your aps cannot run under WINE. I have not checked their web site, but I think they will have trouble with XP. Windows ME is the last Windows release based on Windows 9x technology. XP is based on NT, which is a much different engine. I would hope that Win4Lin can come up with a Windows XP version.
================================= Jerry, I have but one question to your last sentence. WHY? Patrick -- --- KMail v1.4.1 --- SuSE Linux Pro v8.0 --- Registered Linux User #225206 Magic Page Products -- Amiga-SuSE-PC Sales & Service URL: http://home.sprintmail.com/~tracerb
Personally, my laptop is Linux with Crossover Office because there are some rare cases where I need PowerPoint, Excel or MS Word and Open Office does not fit the bill. But, there are applications which may never work well with WINE. Win4Lin provides a cost effective way for a Windows user to gain the benefits of Linux without the need to convert over. Since most new consumer systems come with Windows XP, then it would be a plus if Windows XP could run under Win4Lin. For business purposes, I would probably use VMWare if I need to put Windows XP or 2K on my laptop. Currently, my desktop system is set up for dual boot with SuSE 7.3 and Windows ME, but the only reasons I use ME is to perform a flash upgrade to my Linksys router and to place a service call with my broadband carrier. Otherwise, all the software I use is Linux. On 4 Jun 2002 at 10:46, Patrick wrote:
On Tuesday 04 June 2002 08:16, Jerry Feldman wrote:
much different engine. I would hope that Win4Lin can come up with a Windows XP version. Jerry,
I have but one question to your last sentence. WHY?
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
On Tuesday 04 June 2002 22:16, Jerry Feldman wrote: - Currently, my desktop system is set up for dual boot with SuSE 7.3 and - Windows ME, but the only reasons I use ME is to perform a flash upgrade to - my Linksys router and to place a service call with my broadband carrier. That is actually very irritating. If I could get what I need of programs to run with Crossover Office (in my case) I would simply dish my Win 2k boot partition. When Linksys routers are otherwise platform agnostic with a web setup interface, why can't someone at Linksys develop a flash upgrade that will work with Lin, or at least Crossover Office? Isn't possible to do this in Java? I believe Mac users have the same problem with the flash upgrades. Cheers, Brian
Actually, you can flash the linksys box from Linux. (I have not tried using WINE or cxoffice). They use the tftp protocol. The problem is the password validation. I played with it a while ago, and there were several solutions posted. The other reason for me to keep ME as a dual boot is when diagnosing a cable modem issue. The customer service driods want a direct connection to a WIndows Machine. On 5 Jun 2002 at 11:00, Brian Durant wrote:
That is actually very irritating. If I could get what I need of programs to run with Crossover Office (in my case) I would simply dish my Win 2k boot partition. When Linksys routers are otherwise platform agnostic with a web setup interface, why can't someone at Linksys develop a flash upgrade that will work with Lin, or at least Crossover Office? Isn't possible to do this in Java? I believe Mac users have the same problem with the flash upgrades.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
Bill, You are correct. My testing of Win4Lin ended in 2.0 beta. Also Virtual Machines in general are not necessarily slower than the native OS. The problem with any kind of VM is that they do use additional resources, so you want to make sure your system is powerful enough (and most laptops today are). On 3 Jun 2002 at 12:05, Bill Sheehan wrote:
Just an FYI: Win4Lin is not really slower than Windows. In many places it's faster. It's also significantly improved since V2. Win4Lin version 4.x supports any of the Win95 products (Win95/98/ME), but not NT/2K/XP.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
On Monday 03 June 2002 20.40, Jerry Feldman wrote:
Also Virtual Machines in general are not necessarily slower than the native OS.
Explain please. I genuinely want to know. How could any program running in a virtual environment be as fast or faster than running on the bare hardware? If I had an application where speed was the #1 priority I wouldn't choose linux, I'd run it without any OS at all. //Anders -- `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
Years ago, I ran an IBM datacenter. We ran VM/370 with OS/VS1 as our production OS and CMS for our programmers to use. While not a realistic benchmark, we were converting our payroll from Burroughs to IBM. I ran payroll one night with OS/VS1 native, and the next night, nearly the same data with some corrections, except that OS/VS1 was running under VM/370 with a few logged in CMS users. If I recall correctly the payroll actually finished earlier under VM/370 earlier than native. Later I went to a SHARE conference. One presentor showed some benchmarking results where they were running DOS (IBM mainframe DOS) under VM/370 and they were able to achieve better throughput with DOS under VM/370 than native. In the case of VM/370, the big win was paging and spooling. I found that double spooling (using the OS native spooling which then spooled to VM/370) was actually faster than the spooling with the OS booted native. In the case of DOS and OS/VS1 there were many hacks both in VM/370 and the firmware on the 370 which provided some efficiencies. VM/370 paging was more efficient than the DOS or OS/VS1 paging. In any case, under Win4Lin, you are using the native Linux file system which is faster than the Windows VFAT file system. But, as above, the answer is throughput. Windows9x has some limitations due to its dependence on MS-DOS. A VM can mitigate some of these limitations. I'm just generalizing here because I don't have the more detailed knowledge I used to have back when I ran an IBM shop. On 3 Jun 2002 at 22:17, Anders Johansson wrote:
Explain please. I genuinely want to know. How could any program running in a virtual environment be as fast or faster than running on the bare hardware? If I had an application where speed was the #1 priority I wouldn't choose linux, I'd run it without any OS at all.
-- Jerry Feldman Enterprise Systems Group Hewlett-Packard Company 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1 Marlboro, Ma. 01752 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
participants (9)
-
Alfredo Cole -
Anders Johansson -
Bill Sheehan -
Brian Durant -
Doug McGarrett -
Jerry Feldman -
Jose Mirles -
Jyry Kuukkanen -
Patrick