On 2012/02/05 17:09 (GMT-0500) Patrick Shanahan composed:

Bob S wrote:

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Running 12.1 with KDE3

[on AMD 64 bit with 2G RAM; with DVI cable and 1920x1080; & IIRC PCIe 8400GT]

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Last night I did a zypper 'up' zypper downloaded TWO kernels. kernel-default and kernel-desktop. Now I;m havinf trouble with my nvidia drivers. I guess it's confused.

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So which is the correct one for 12.1 ?

both but you probably should be using desktop

That's the question. The devs and docs don't seem to make clear whether default is the default kernel (apparently changing their/its minds about the meaning and applicability of "default" over the past few releases), what circumstances dictate which is preferred, or why more than one ever got installed.

how do/did you install/update your nvidia drivers, makes a difference

and you *do* need to update the nvidia drivers when you get a new kernel.

Thus the question, since he's stuck in runlevel 3 unless booting previous kernel with proprietary NVidia already installed; accordingly, xorg.conf was created consistent with NVidia custom high DPI operation and incompatible with FOSS drivers (nv/nouveau). He wants to keep only the preferred kernel installed, zypper rm the other, and install the proprietary driver only in the remaining new kernel. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/05 19:06 (GMT-0500) Patrick Shanahan composed:

Felix Miata composed:

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Thus the question, since he's stuck in runlevel 3 unless booting previous kernel with proprietary NVidia already installed; accordingly, xorg.conf was created consistent with NVidia custom high DPI operation and incompatible with FOSS drivers (nv/nouveau). He wants to keep only the preferred kernel installed, zypper rm the other, and install the proprietary driver only in the remaining new kernel.

you *can* do for each kernel: sh<path-to>/NVidia.....run -a -K

So?

then you can run either w/o a problem...

He WANTS to NOT have two kernel types installed, same as me (on any normal box, only maybe more than one type short term on a test partition). The thread is about which between desktop and default to choose to remove so that future updating only updates one, wastes no HD space or download bandwidth during updating, and also so that there is no question that more than one might need NVidia drivers installed. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Basil Chupin [02-05-12 21:14]:

SHEESH!

What Patrick meant, of course, is that for each NEW kernel you can do the "sh NVIDIA......" quickstep in 4-3 time.

Nearly :^), it be 6/8 time -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/06 13:13 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:

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you *can* do for each kernel: sh<path-to>/NVidia.....run -a -K

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So?

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then you can run either w/o a problem...

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He WANTS to NOT have two kernel types installed,

SHEESH!

What Patrick meant, of course, is that for each NEW kernel you can do the "sh NVIDIA......" quickstep in 4-3 time.

So? The _thread_ (note the subject) is about choosing one and only one kernel type to keep, "which kernel" , not about how when why whether as to NVidia drivers installation. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Felix Miata [02-05-12 21:35]:

So? The _thread_ (note the subject) is about choosing one and only one kernel type to keep, "which kernel" , not about how when why whether as to NVidia drivers installation.

And *that* _was_ answered... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/02/12 14:35, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/05 22:31 (GMT-0500) Patrick Shanahan composed:

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Felix Miata composed:

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So? The _thread_ (note the subject) is about choosing one and only one kernel type to keep, "which kernel" , not about how when why whether as to NVidia drivers installation.

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And *that* _was_ answered...

Not satisfactorily that I've seen.

Well....we are all waiting with bated breath THE proper answer from yours truly. Any minute now......yes? Or is it "real soon now"? :-) . BC -- A three-year-old boy was examining his testicles while taking a bath. "Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?" "Not yet," she replied. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/02/12 15:30, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/05 23:05 (GMT-0500) Basil Chupin composed:

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And *that* _was_ answered...

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Not satisfactorily that I've seen.

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Well....we are all waiting with bated breath THE proper answer from yours truly. Any minute now......yes? Or is it "real soon now"? :-) .

If you think I have the answer, you're mistaken. If I knew the answer the OP never would have been written, since it was written at my suggestion over the phone _because_ I did not know. Unfortunately, I didn't provide all the words to write, which lead to important information missing from the OP, and irrelevant information contained there in for most responses to focus on instead of the topic or the OP's need.

In case those reading don't recall, the OP was written by a virtually blind person who struggles to do anything at all with his computer. All the noise in this thread just makes it that much harder for him to get his problem solved. Whether his 2GB RAM 64 bit AMD ordinary desktop system should be running the "default" kernel or the "desktop" kernel is the _only_ thing he needs to know for purposes of this thread.

If that is all it is then I can answer this in 4 words: use the Desktop kernel. It is configured to provide low latency for applications "normally" used on a desktop computer. I have/have had 1.5GB of RAM (and my wife's desktop has 1GB) and this is the kernel which I always use - the Desktop kernel. QED. BC -- A three-year-old boy was examining his testicles while taking a bath. "Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?" "Not yet," she replied. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/06 00:15 (GMT-0500) Patrick Shanahan composed:

* Felix Miata composed:

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In case those reading don't recall, the OP was written by a virtually blind person who struggles to do anything at all with his computer. All the noise in this thread just makes it that much harder for him to get his problem solved. Whether his 2GB RAM 64 bit AMD ordinary desktop system should be running the "default" kernel or the "desktop" kernel is the _only_ thing he needs to know for purposes of this thread.

And I suggested the "desktop" version which I have read here was appropriate for nearly anything the *normal* user would need including running mail/web/ftp server(s).

<quote> * Bob S<911@pasco.org> [02-05-12 17:00]:

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Running 1`2.1 with KDE3

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Last night I did a zypper 'up' zypper downloaded TWO kernels. kernel-default and kernel-desktop. Now I;m havinf trouble with my nvidia drivers. I guess it's confused.

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So which is the correct one for 12.1 ?

both but you probably should be using desktop don't know about kde3 </quote>

And you have denied the answer as ?? vague or .....

Your use of the word "probably" made http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2012-02/msg00173.html equivocal. Maybe if you or someone else in thread had explained a use case for 64 bit kernel-default or why a recent fresh install of 64 bit 12.1 would have resulted in both kernel-default and kernel-desktop being installed on the very same system it might have been less so. Looking a the descriptions in YaST and seeing the descriptions for kernel-desktop and kernel-default in 11.4 & 12.1, the reason for the existence of kernel-default appears to me ambiguous at best. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 06 February 2012 06:01:03 Anders Johansson wrote:

The kmp packages should get installed automatically by YaST the next time you use its software module, by the way

...eh, assuming you have selected the nvidia repository from the list of "community repositories" in YaST, that is. Sorry Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 06 February 2012 16:18:00 Basil Chupin wrote:

Only this morning the kernel was updated to 3.2.4 and the nVidia driver repo produced exactly zero as an update - and, as usual, had to compile the driver myself.

Strange tale, but true.....

No, you misunderstand. The kmp nvidia driver doesn't have to be updated when you get a new kernel. It will automatically load into the new kernel without having to do anything. But this only works if you are using the distribution kernel (and the accompanying kmp package). The idea is that suse takes care as far as possible to maintain binary compatibility between kernels within a release so that you don't have to recompile external modules. The way it works is that a module in the updates directory of the kernel's /lib/modules directory gets symlinked into the weak-updates directory of the new kernel's modules directory, and can be used without having to do anything else. Since you are running upstream kernels, without binary compatibility guarantees (or even attempts), then yes, you are indeed on your own. Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

I have the nVidia repository selected, it's enabled, it refreshes itself and yet I never get an updated nvidia driver whenever the kernel is updated.

Only this morning the kernel was updated to 3.2.4 and the nVidia driver repo produced exactly zero as an update - and, as usual, had to compile the driver myself.

Strange tale, but true.....

This is to be expected, because you don't run the distribution kernel, which is 3.1.9 atm. The nVidia repository only provides modules, which are matching to the ditribution kernel. If you you do it right, you don't need to do a full driver installation after a kernel update. When you get a new .run file , use the "--extract-only option" to unpack it only. Then switch to the driver directory and run the nvidia_installer script to do a full installation first time. When a new kernel is installed, you can run ./nvidia_installer -aK -k <new kernel version> which compiles only the module for the new kernel and doesn't uninstall any old kernel modules. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/02/12 18:24, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/06 06:01 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson composed:

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On Sunday 05 February 2012 18:57:57 Felix Miata wrote:

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...proprietary NVidia already installed; accordingly, xorg.conf was created consistent with NVidia custom high DPI operation...

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kernel-desktop is a good choice for a desktop machine.

It used to be it was clear that was the case. Or maybe it was recently changed so that is now the case. I can't remember which, but I do remember there was a change discussed either here and/or on the factory list. I don't ever use 64 bit, while the OP only uses 64 bit, hence I couldn't answer when he asked why he had both default and desktop installed on his system, and told the OP to try to find out via the list.

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xorg.conf shouldn't be needed anymore, except in very special circumstances

A virtually blind OP doesn't count as a very special circumstance?

You keep hiding behind this excuse re the OP. Why didn't you say this when you posted your initial message or even tell him/her go mention this? Time to give this approach away and concentrate on providing the answer - which has already been provided irrespective of who the OP is. Right? Anything else is simply a waste of everyone's time, broadband, and disk space in getting posts in this thread. BC -- A three-year-old boy was examining his testicles while taking a bath. "Mum" he asked, "are these my brains?" "Not yet," she replied. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/02/12 21:27, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/06 19:15 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:

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Felix Miata wrote:

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On 2012/02/06 06:01 (GMT+0100) Anders Johansson composed:

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xorg.conf shouldn't be needed anymore, except in very special circumstances

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A virtually blind OP doesn't count as a very special circumstance?

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You keep hiding behind this excuse re the OP.

Please explain this concept of "hiding behind". I don't know your meaning.

You keep bringing this up - I think that this is the second time you have referred to his condition. If this was so important why didn't you say so to begin with; if not this then why didn't YOU ask the question(s) here?

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tell him/her go mention this? Why didn't you say this when you posted your initial message or even

Were the typos and obviously errant spaces and other characters in the OP not sufficiently indicative of a special problem?

Do you actually READ the posts in this mail list?! Many people who post here do not have English as their first language and therefore some of their posts require a heap of patience to interpret as to what they are actually trying to state. Typos and grammatical errors are therefore simply ignored and not paid attention to. So, to answer your emotive question: the answer is NO! it is NOT indicative of any special problem.

How often must a regular poster here for several years (Bob Stia <911@pasco.org> in this case) for the benefit of the other regulars here need to reiterate his handicap as the reason for or a compounding effect of a problem he's asking for help with? You think a handicapped person is proud to be handicapped rather than wishing to forget its existence and be like normal people?

What the heck ARE you on about? Stop being such a drama queen. So Bob has a handicap and we - at least I now do - all now know about it. As someone who also has hassles with his eye-sight I thoroughly sympathise with him. But the question now is: after reading all the suggestions posted in this thread, have you provided Bob with the answer he wanted?

Why not just answer the actual question? It's well known that there are special cases (e.g. proprietary drivers not supporting KMS; forcing disregard of EDID) where automagic can't work, only handled by having an xorg.conf file, which is why xorg.conf is still supported.

<Sigh> Why are you adding unnecessary noise? Have you given Bob the answer he wanted to his question? BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/02/12 15:08, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/02/08 14:34 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:

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Have you given Bob the answer he wanted to his question?

As I had hoped when suggesting over the phone what Bob should do, eventually http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2012-02/msg00214.html fulfilled the thread purpose with a competent response, which also addressed the reason why the OP directive, and provided concise OT info as a welcome PS.

Good. Excellent. So now everybody is happy. BC -- Aspire to inspire before you expire. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/07 11:53 (GMT+0100) Philipp Thomas composed:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 02:24:04 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

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I don't ever use 64 bit

Any reason for that besides using 4GiB or less of memory?

1-Only 1 machine has more than 2G RAM 2-I'm usually in no particular hurry, particularly as regards retiring perfectly usable free/old/single core hardware 3-KISS: a-No need to keep track of which CPUs actually support 64 bits b-Avoids extra incompatibilities when swapping HDs among systems c-Avoids need to track which Factory bugs I filed are or are not 32 bit only d-At least one Factory tester isn't running 64 bit e-At least one Factory tester is looking to see which old hardware gets support broken f-Avoids traditional browser plugin compat issues -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2012/02/09 04:04 (GMT+0100) Philipp Thomas composed:

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:04:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

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d-At least one Factory tester isn't running 64 bit

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e-At least one Factory tester is looking to see which old hardware gets support broken

Sorry, what do you mean by factory tester?

About a dozen or more machines (and more in reserve) running operating systems installed, updated & operated ad hoc from http://download.opensuse.org/factory/ -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org