Is Linux Getting Fat?!
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7324 Just tell me if this is an old discussion because I somewhat agree with the article. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16/3/2004
On Monday 16 August 2004 03:22, Dalton S.R.F wrote:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7324
Just tell me if this is an old discussion because I somewhat agree with the article.
Maybe some justification for the article - I suppose the trend is hard to avoid, as people rarely badger developers with the message 'I want the software to do less and have fewer features'. But I'm not convinced about the 'Windows is faster' thing, really. Nothing that's all that much fun runs fast on 64MB or the 32 he mentions, and hasn't for a while. You don't need 3GB processors, but asking for 256MB RAM or more is just not unreasonable when it costs what it does. I'm also running 9.1 / KDE3.3 quite happily on a 400 MHz Celeron with 256 MB RAM, something the author suggests is bogglingly slow - I'm as impatient as most, but find performance adequate if not stunning. Mind you, I'm not using that particular machine that much ... I don't think Mozilla, and certainly Firefox, is slower than IE. I notice much of his serious moaning is about Gnome, about which I can't really comment because I've only used it in Sun's version on SPARC machines. Where it's not specially nimble, I have to say, but maybe that's the Sun implementation. I kind of take his point - but I can't really see what we can do about it. One excellent model for very heavily audited, unbloated and secure lightweight code is the OpenBSD project - I tend to stick a very lightweight X on it for convenience, and run it on servers. I've got one 64MB / 200MHz machine running that plus Firefox as a kiosk for a web-based catalogue, and I seem to remember having a fight that I gave up to get SuSE 9.0 running on it. But while you can make OpenBSD into a nice modern multimedia desktop, it's a lot of work and you'd need a lot of experience to do it. And then it would be big anyway. I think the author of the articles is not comparing like with like - the comparison isn't WinXP vs. SuSE or Fedora, it's WinXP, plus all the software you'd have to buy and load on it to mimic all the stuff you get with a linux distro, vs. that distro. People want lots of fun graphics, software features, transition effects, etc, and I think the guy is asking for the moon a bit, unless you just boil it down to 'could programmers and developers please think more about the RAM overheads of what they're doing?', which is nice, but not much more useful than 'can't we all just learn to get along together?' Buy more RAM and enjoy, Bloatedly, -- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: +44 161 834 7961 Fax: +44 161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk
I'm also running 9.1 / KDE3.3 quite happily on a 400 MHz Celeron with 256 MB RAM, something the author suggests is bogglingly slow - I'm as impatient as most, but find performance adequate if not stunning. Mind you, I'm not using that particular machine that much ... I don't think Mozilla, and certainly Firefox, is slower than IE. I notice much of his serious moaning is about Gnome, about which I can't really comment because I've only used it in Sun's version on SPARC machines. Where it's not specially nimble, I have to say, but maybe that's the Sun implementation.
I have you beat there -- I'm running 9.1/KDE3.2.3 on a Celeron 366/196MB laptop. I've turned off various things I don't need, but it runs a LOT faster than Windows XP does on this machine. Steve Kratz
On Monday 16 August 2004 6:44 am, Steve Kratz wrote:
I have you beat there -- I'm running 9.1/KDE3.2.3 on a Celeron 366/196MB laptop. I've turned off various things I don't need, but it runs a LOT faster than Windows XP does on this machine.
The writer wants it both ways. Linux can be lean and mean or for us non-geek types as full featured as we want or need. Rich
Steve Kratz
-- C. Richard Matson
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7324
Just tell me if this is an old discussion because I somewhat agree with the article.
Well, I do and I don't! I do think it's an issue of what distro you run and, perhaps more importantly, which desktop. Also, whilst there's no doubt that XP boots much faster than any Linux distro, I don't agree that the desktop itself is fast. I didn't find Mandrake slow and Fedora Core 2 just whizzes along; SuSE 9.1 is incredibly slow, with its "default" settings, if you run KDE. I run Gnome and have no speed issues. I'm not sure what I'll do when 2.6 becomes the standard because I really don't like it and am not happy with the direction Gnome is taking (this is how it will be - take it or leave it). Maybe Novell/SuSE/Ximian will pull something wonderful out of the hat! I'm sure the average Windows user would find their way around Gnome quite easily, though. So, given that there's no speed issue, I prefer Linux because it's generally more customisable, more secure, and offers me more choice. Oh - and I nearly forgot - it isn't fettered by these pesky licensing issues. If I don't like something - I can change it. The fact that I'm not capable of that doesn't matter - I have the choice. If we want to attract more "ordinary" users to Linux, then they will expect wizards, graphical tools, automatic hardware detection and configuration - the lot - because that's what Windows gives them. And, to be honest and truthful, it doesn't do that bad a job, especially if you're not that concerned about the inner workings of your system. If all these things are added to Linux distros, then, of course they will become more bloated and slower: I don't know any way around that. As I said above, it's about choice: if you're a power user, comfortable with the CLI, and want speed above all - use slack or gentoo, with fluxbox or xfce (if you really must have X). If you just want to surf the web and check your email, but with some security - use Mandrake or SuSE with KDE, but accept that it'll be a bit slow. It ain't a perfect world.
True. 9.1 Pro with x sux bigtime on a celeron 466mhz with
196mb ram. It feels asif you have a constant lag when you
work in x. The service that 9.1 offers over the network is
nice and speedy tho.
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:22:46 -0300
"Dalton S.R.F"
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7324
Just tell me if this is an old discussion because I somewhat agree with the article.
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I have 9.1 pro on a PII 350 with 256mb and an 8 meg graphics card. The only real adatation I have made is to run evolution in gnome because its slow in KDE. The only exception is encryption tools kgpg does not run in gnome so for that I run evolution in kde I have maxed out my / partition to 95% so next install will include adjustments for that. CWSIV ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
Dalton S.R.F wrote:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7324
Just tell me if this is an old discussion because I somewhat agree with the article.
While I have also noticed some bloat, what bothers me, is all the bugs that seem to be turning up and even repeated in later distros. For example, I'm running SuSE 9.1 on this computer. There's the hotplug problem, which appeared as a "fix" to the original release. Then there's the KDE menu editor problem, which was in 9.0, and then fixed. If it was fixed there, why did it reappear in 9.1. Things like Kwifimanager and LISa, which simply don't work at all in 9.1 etc. The list goes on. Why so many problems in this distro?
[8<]
For example, I'm running SuSE 9.1 on this computer. There's the hotplug problem, which appeared as a "fix" to the original release. Then there's the KDE menu editor problem, which was in 9.0, and then fixed. If it was fixed there, why did it reappear in 9.1. Things like Kwifimanager and LISa, which simply don't work at all in 9.1 etc. The list goes on. Why so many problems in this distro?
Could it be the old Microsoft problem, "Too fast to market"? Anders.
Anders Norrbring wrote:
[8<]
For example, I'm running SuSE 9.1 on this computer. There's the hotplug problem, which appeared as a "fix" to the original release. Then there's the KDE menu editor problem, which was in 9.0, and then fixed. If it was fixed there, why did it reappear in 9.1. Things like Kwifimanager and LISa, which simply don't work at all in 9.1 etc. The list goes on. Why so many problems in this distro?
Could it be the old Microsoft problem, "Too fast to market"?
Anders.
I think it's partly a matter of software getting bigger and more complex. Quality problems escalate quickly and become very difficult to manage. As annoying as bugs can be, they are inevitable. -- Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. NOTE: Please do not email me any attachments with Microsoft extensions. They are deleted on my ISP's server before I ever see them, and no bounce message is sent.
On Monday 16 August 2004 9:14 am, Jim Sabatke wrote:
Anders Norrbring wrote:
[8<]
For example, I'm running SuSE 9.1 on this computer. There's the hotplug problem, which appeared as a "fix" to the original release. Then there's the KDE menu editor problem, which was in 9.0, and then fixed. If it was fixed there, why did it reappear in 9.1. Things like Kwifimanager and LISa, which simply don't work at all in 9.1 etc. The list goes on. Why so many problems in this distro?
Could it be the old Microsoft problem, "Too fast to market"?
Anders.
I think it's partly a matter of software getting bigger and more complex. Quality problems escalate quickly and become very difficult to manage. As annoying as bugs can be, they are inevitable.
Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke
Maybe Mr. Gates is reading these e-mails and laughing his butt off:-) Rich -- C. Richard Matson
participants (10)
-
Anders Norrbring -
C. Richard Matson -
Carl William Spitzer IV -
Dalton S.R.F -
David Robertson -
Fergus Wilde -
it clown -
James Knott -
Jim Sabatke -
Steve Kratz