Re: [SLE] M$ plans to secure their mono^h^h^h^h OS
Steven,
http://netscape.com.com/2100-1105-941398.html?type=pt "SEATTLE--Microsoft over the past week has quietly unveiled details about a key new security initiative code-named Palladium, giving the first glimpse into its plan to deliver on its promise of "Trustworthy Computing."" The operative term here is *Trustworthy*. I suggest we ask IBM, WordPerfect, Novell, and Netscape about M$ being worthy of trust.
And this has precisely what to do with Suse Linux? I'm sure there are more appropriate forums for MS bashing! James C. Rocks Equant Archway House Canary Wharf London E14 9SZ Phone: 0207-5226856 Fax: 0207-5126087 Mobile Phone: 07771-767405 http://www.equant.com
"SEATTLE--Microsoft over the past week has quietly unveiled details about a key new security initiative code-named Palladium, giving the first glimpse into its plan to deliver on its promise of "Trustworthy Computing."" The operative term here is *Trustworthy*. I suggest we ask IBM,
WordPerfect, Novell, and Netscape about M$ being worthy of trust.
And this has precisely what to do with Suse Linux? I'm sure there are more appropriate forums for MS bashing!
They wouldn't get bashed if they hadn't started the bashing. Few would have a problem with MS if they sought market dominance by providing the best, cheapest products on an even playing field with others. Historically they don't - they put a lot of energy into destroying the competition. The companies Steven cites have all been victims of this approach. Microsoft describes Linux - frequently and prominently - as 'viral code', and lobby furiously around the world against Linux and other free OSes. Between them and the US bills promoted by Hollywood and the music industry, they represent a very real threat to the continuing existence of free software. When they announce a new initiative such as this, a careful eye needs to be kept on how it will be used politically. That's why posts like Steven's are of very real relevance to a Linux list. Best Fergus
On Friday 05 July 2002 14.11, Fergus Wilde wrote: *snipping discussion completely irrelevant to this list* This happens over and over again. Topics completely unrelated to the purpose of this list. This list is for discussing technical issues concerning SuSE Linux. Not general Linux banter and M$ bashing. If you need to do those, go to Slashdot. They're great at it. But this list is for technical issues specific to SuSE Linux users. It's got enough posts without this off-topic crap invading it. Take it somewhere else. The rest of us do not appreciate having to wade through this nonsense just to get to the technical support issues. Later, Joe "Flame" Sullivan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firechild Web Design and CGI Scripting Services http://firechild.net Secretary, World Association of Internet Marketing http://waim.org Webmaster, Amerikanska - For Americans In Sweden http://amerikanska.com Meta-editor, Open Directory Project http://dmoz.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Friday 05 July 2002 14.22, Joe Sullivan wrote:
On Friday 05 July 2002 14.11, Fergus Wilde wrote: *snipping discussion completely irrelevant to this list* <snip presumptious comment claiming to speak for everyone>
This has been discussed many, many times on this list. The general consensus every time has been that a few posts like this doesn't hurt, and only livens things up a bit as long as it doesn't go overboard. An example would be the debate about beers and ales a few months ago. The topic of this list isn't "technical support" it's "General discussions about SuSE Linux", incidentally. //Anders
On Friday 05 July 2002 15.12, Anders Johansson wrote:
The topic of this list isn't "technical support" it's "General discussions about SuSE Linux", incidentally.
http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2002-Jun/3008.html Quote from Christopher: "off topic posting. This is not an advocacy group and the only time Windows should be discussed is in the context of smb, bootloaders, etc. Likewise, if you want to discuss some Linux-related press release or the merits of United Linux (just to pick one off the top of my head) please go to Slashdot to do it. This is a technical list." Later, Joe "Flame" Sullivan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firechild Web Design and CGI Scripting Services http://firechild.net Secretary, World Association of Internet Marketing http://waim.org Webmaster, Amerikanska - For Americans In Sweden http://amerikanska.com Meta-editor, Open Directory Project http://dmoz.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Friday 05 July 2002 06:12, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Friday 05 July 2002 14.22, Joe Sullivan wrote:
On Friday 05 July 2002 14.11, Fergus Wilde wrote: *snipping discussion completely irrelevant to this list*
<snip presumptious comment claiming to speak for everyone>
This has been discussed many, many times on this list. The general consensus every time has been that a few posts like this doesn't hurt, and only livens things up a bit as long as it doesn't go overboard. An example would be the debate about beers and ales a few months ago.
The topic of this list isn't "technical support" it's "General discussions about SuSE Linux", incidentally.
http://lists2.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/1998-Mar/0601.html So which had the best support, beer or ale? TTTT, I don't really know the difference.
//Anders
Steven
On Friday 05 July 2002 08:22, Joe wrote:
The rest of us do not appreciate having to wade through this nonsense just to get to the technical support issues.
So you end up doubling the wasted bandwidth by your high and mighty pontifications and slamming other people's posts. Use your delete key for crying out loud. *************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 7.3 Professional KDE 2.2.1 KMail 1.3.1 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ***************************************************
On Friday 05 July 2002 03:28, James.Rocks@equant.com wrote:
Steven,
http://netscape.com.com/2100-1105-941398.html?type=pt "SEATTLE--Microsoft over the past week has quietly unveiled details about
a
key new security initiative code-named Palladium, giving the first
glimpse
into its plan to deliver on its promise of "Trustworthy Computing."" The operative term here is *Trustworthy*. I suggest we ask IBM,
WordPerfect,
Novell, and Netscape about M$ being worthy of trust.
And this has precisely what to do with Suse Linux? I'm sure there are more appropriate forums for MS bashing!
James C. Rocks
I'm glad you asked that question. I can't give all the background on my situation because that would bring my company and our contracts into discussion. This subject is about the computing industry, and it is relevent to the future of Linux. I've been using SuSE Linux since early 1998. At the time I was working with Netscape's SuiteSpot servers. They were far ahead of M$ in the field of internet technology. In particular, Netscape had NSS which promised to provide a foundation for much of the emerging PKI market. Then came the move by M$: "We are going to cut off their air supply. Everything they're selling, were going to give away for free." All of a sudden, Netscape could not afford the kind of R&D needed to continue to advance their cross-platform (the real XP) technologies. Netscape has an honerable heritage in the Open Source community. Not only did they release the browser as Open Source, they came from the Apache and (X)Emacs lineage of developers. There is a wonderful piece of code on the NSS CD they sold to the DoD that represents, perhaps, the first 'getopts'. It was the product of a Usenet discussion (before it was called Usenet.) Netscape's approach to the industry was to combine their technological lead with their knowledge base and educate developers in their new technologies. They strove to produce industry standard, interoperable products. Where there were no standards, they worked with others to produce them. They did not merely sell fish. They taught men to fish. I am now in a situation where I can use many powerful tools built to run on (SuSE) Linux to develop solutions for my customer. Indeed, I do use SuSE Linux at work as my primary OS. Unfortunately, I see the clouds darkening around that effort. I am not able to keep up with my emails unless I either reboot, or vnc into an NT box. (The latter is almost unusable.) I can't produce, or even effectively view many of the documents required for my work because M$ proprietary formats are incompatible with the tools I have available. Now I see M$ poised to monopolize the security sector of the market which they effectively stole from Netscape. This will make my ability to use SuSE Linux even less likely in the future. If they build a security infrastructure which undermines open standards, this could effectively check the entrance of competing OSs into the market place. Being a monopoly they can charge what the market can bear rather than a competitive rate for their products. They can then leverage this advantage to fund the R&D necessary for further advancement in the industry which will effectively shut out all competitors. Now consider that one of the most significant demands for security is the new US Government's Homeland Security initiative. I'm sorry. I have a problem with the CIA, NSA, FBI, and the rest of the DoJ in bed with M$ after they have demonstrated their duplicity in so many ways, and so often. Steven
* James.Rocks@equant.com (James.Rocks@equant.com) [020705 03:52]: :: ::And this has precisely what to do with Suse Linux? I'm sure there are more ::appropriate forums for MS bashing! Well, ok..if this is going to become a sterile "ask an precise question get a precise answer list" instead of the community discussion list with topic of SuSE Linux and related matrial then I would suggest a few things that I would love to see happen. 1. Trim email so that it's not pages and pages long. Put only the parts that are being replied to in the email. 2. Use an MUA that doesn't break threads because some of use use real email clients that let us delete whole threads we are not interested in such as " Why doesn't my crappy isp work with kppp" and " Why doesn't my GDI WinPrinter work " 3. Please remember that just hitting reply on a message and changing the subject doesn't start a new thread it screws up the existing thread and throws garbage some of us don't want to read into the mix. 4. Please do NOT email a list user directly. I haven't bitched about it much in the past but I for one am not anyone's personal tech support. If you can not get an answer on the list. Do not email list members directly just because they might be able to answer the question. 5. When you reply to a post please make sure to ONLY have the list address in your message. DO NOT cc or bcc the person who wrote the message. If they wrote the message and it got to the list ..they are on the bloody list and will get the message. That's WAY more annoying the most of what people have bitched about here lately. Getting 2 messages with the same content because people are to damn lazy to click in the little cc box and remove the users address is damn rude. If your client doesn't support the use of procmail to fix this. The get another email client. Don't whine and say " but it's all I have "...when there are tons of free clients that handle mail properly. You new people seem to want to rule the roost. You forget that this list has existed for years before you decided to join the Linux community and you are alienating some of the older users who like the community aspect of it. The reason Linux has come so far in such a short amount of time is because people believe in it..it's almost a zealot belief. The reason this religious belief is good is because it motivates people. Where companies pay people to care and to code. It's only the beliefs in OpenSource that make people spend those 5-6 hours a day after their paying job to code the software you use. Personally I don't like mega off topic disscussions but as long as they are related to Linux and don't go off the deep end thats fine. This isn't a truely moderated list because it's such a broad list. I don't see where the original post was Microsoft bashing. It might have poked a bit of fun, but all in all it was a heads up. I don't really think that off topic Microsoft related stories should show up here. If people want to dig on Microsoft and as well they should for what they've done in the past...the FUD they spread about Linux and prior to that about OS/2. They deserve scorn from anyone. If anyone wants to join a chatter list or post things such as Anti-Microsoft stuff. Please join the lx-talk list. You can email ck@mamalala.de who is the list owner and he will subscribe you. Regards, -=Ben --=====-----=====-- mailto:ben@whack.org --=====-- Tell me what you believe..I tell you what you should see. -DP --=====-----=====--
participants (7)
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Anders Johansson -
Ben Rosenberg -
Bryan Tyson -
Fergus Wilde -
James.Rocks＠equant.com -
Joe Sullivan -
Steven T. Hatton