[opensuse] Legacy BIOS, GRUB and Btrfs - bug or feature?
Just to report and may be warn little bit. I was installing openSUSE aside already existing Windows 7 on new Dell notebook. For some unknown reason it was set up to use legacy BIOS, so no UEFI, no secure boot. I don't know why, I didn't do it, it wasn't my notebook. And I couldn't just reinstall Windows. I started to install 13.2 and disk partitioner offered to shrink Windows part and use Btrfs. I accepted defaults as it looked correct. Installation failed in the last step during installation of GRUB2. It correctly determined it has to use GRUB2 and not GRUB2-EFI. But it seems „plain“ Grub2 doesn't work with Btrfs. Finally I managed to push GRUB2 there, but on the first boot it failed saying „Wrong filesystem“. So I reinstalled openSUSE using EXT4 this time and it worked perfectly. Both systems are working fine. So I wonder if it is my lack of knowledge that GRUB2 doesn't work (apparently) with Btrfs or it is a bug as installer should (although I have no idea how) determine it during installation and not to recommend Btrfs. What the experts think? All the best, Vojtěch -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:45:48 +0100
Vojtěch Zeisek
Installation failed in the last step during installation of GRUB2. It correctly determined it has to use GRUB2 and not GRUB2-EFI. But it seems „plain“ Grub2 doesn't work with Btrfs. Finally I managed to push GRUB2 there, but on the first boot it failed saying „Wrong filesystem“. So I reinstalled openSUSE using EXT4 this time and it worked perfectly.
This is a known limitation of grub2 with "btrfs". As far as I know, here's the situation: grub2-efi -- should be okay. grub2, and "/boot" in an "ext{2,3,4}" partition: should be okay. grub2, and "/boot" in "btrfs": this only works if you install to boot from the MBR. And even then, it only works if there is enough space in the gap between the MBR and the first partition. If the first partition starts at sector 63, it likely won't work. If the first partition starts at sector 2048, it should work.
Just to report and may be warn little bit. I was installing openSUSE aside already existing Windows 7 on new Dell notebook. For some unknown reason it was set up to use legacy BIOS, so no UEFI, no secure boot. I don't know why, I didn't do it, it wasn't my notebook.
That seems to be the way Dell is doing it. I priced a Dell computer last March, though I eventually bought a Lenovo ThinkServer instead. What Dell was saying, at that time, was approximately this: If you buy a computer with Windows 7, they would actually be selling you Windows 8 ultimate. That version of Win8 comes with the right to downgrade to Win7 without cost. So they were installing the downgrade for you. They would also provide Win8 media (perhaps at extra cost, though I'm not sure of that). To switch to Win8, you were supposed to change the BIOS to UEFI and then install from the Win8 media. I think this has to do with Dell's license agreement with Microsoft. Apparently that agreement does not allow them to sell Win7, but does allow Win8 with a downgrade option. And presumably their OEM license for the Win7 that they downgrade to, is for a non-UEFI version.
Dne St 26. listopadu 2014 20:06:53, Neil Rickert napsal(a):
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:45:48 +0100
Vojtěch Zeisek
wrote: Installation failed in the last step during installation of GRUB2. It correctly determined it has to use GRUB2 and not GRUB2-EFI. But it seems „plain“ Grub2 doesn't work with Btrfs. Finally I managed to push GRUB2 there, but on the first boot it failed saying „Wrong filesystem“. So I reinstalled openSUSE using EXT4 this time and it worked perfectly.
This is a known limitation of grub2 with "btrfs".
Ah, oK.
As far as I know, here's the situation:
grub2-efi -- should be okay.
Installation fails on system without UEFI.
grub2, and "/boot" in an "ext{2,3,4}" partition: should be okay.
Yes, seems so. I installed it on an alder netbook without UEFI yesterday. /boot and encrypted LVM with / and swap.
grub2, and "/boot" in "btrfs": this only works if you install to boot from the MBR. And even then, it only works if there is enough space in the gap between the MBR and the first partition. If the first partition starts at sector 63, it likely won't work. If the first partition starts at sector 2048, it should work.
Interesting. I'm not sure how, but I think the installer could be enough smart to warn in possible not working situations...
Just to report and may be warn little bit. I was installing openSUSE aside already existing Windows 7 on new Dell notebook. For some unknown reason it was set up to use legacy BIOS, so no UEFI, no secure boot. I don't know why, I didn't do it, it wasn't my notebook.
That seems to be the way Dell is doing it.
I priced a Dell computer last March, though I eventually bought a Lenovo ThinkServer instead.
What Dell was saying, at that time, was approximately this: If you buy a computer with Windows 7, they would actually be selling you Windows 8 ultimate. That version of Win8 comes with the right to downgrade to Win7 without cost. So they were installing the downgrade for you. They would also provide Win8 media (perhaps at extra cost, though I'm not sure of that). To switch to Win8, you were supposed to change the BIOS to UEFI and then install from the Win8 media.
I think this has to do with Dell's license agreement with Microsoft. Apparently that agreement does not allow them to sell Win7, but does allow Win8 with a downgrade option. And presumably their OEM license for the Win7 that they downgrade to, is for a non-UEFI version.
Thank You for all the details. Sincerely, Vojtěch -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
* John M Andersen
On 11/27/2014 1:00 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Installation fails on system without UEFI.
Nope.
Doesn't here, either. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Čt 27. listopadu 2014 08:25:52, Patrick Shanahan napsal(a):
* John M Andersen
[11-27-14 04:10]: On 11/27/2014 1:00 AM, Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Installation fails on system without UEFI.
Nope.
Doesn't here, either.
Interesting. Failed for me on an older Leno IdeaPad netbook... -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
В Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:06:53 -0600
Neil Rickert
grub2, and "/boot" in "btrfs": this only works if you install to boot from the MBR.
Where have you got it from? There is no problem installing grub2 on btrfs partition; actually it avoids post-MBR gap size limitation. Of course partition must be primary partition to actually be able to boot from it.
On 11/26/2014 09:06 PM, Neil Rickert wrote:
grub2, and "/boot" in an "ext{2,3,4}" partition: should be okay.
There's a moral her, as I see it. Its the 'just because you can doesn't mean you should' sort of thing. Just because you can put /boot on the BtrFS-all-as-one-file-system ... Having a separate /boot on a simple, well established Fs such as ext2 or ext3 is about 'resilience'. We found that was a way of getting round 'teething' and other unexpected problems with other file systems as that were "in development" and with LVM in its time. I have BtrFS as my ROOT. So far it hasn't given me any problems. But, as regular readers know, I run LVM, and I have another partition I can use as ROOT if BtrFS fails. Yes, there has been discussion of using snapshots as backups (!) but if the file system itself has failed then the snapshots are not going to be accessible. There are many failure modes; taking images with LVM is one of them. These are real images not COWS. Taking proper off-machine backups is another. Restoring from backup can take longer than rebooting using another partition as ROOT. I've never had to reverse a COW snapshot with Linux/BtrFS. I have done it with AIX and IBM supplied all the proper tools to make reversing out of updates & manual changes very straightforward. I'll be glad when we see similar tools -- a sort of "zypper undo using snapshot 'last'". Until then snapshots/COW are in the "nice to have but what am I going to actually _DO_ with them?" category. Snapshots are COW, they are not backup. They are for reversing recent changes, for an arbitrary value of 'recent'. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Andrei Borzenkov
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Anton Aylward
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John M Andersen
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Neil Rickert
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Patrick Shanahan
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Vojtěch Zeisek