On Wednesday 12 June 2002 16:26, you wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:14:47 +0200
"Clinton F. Aarts"
wrote: I know what you're going through, but for god's sake man get a hold of
yourself.
Yes, right.
At 12:37 PM 6/9/2002 -0500, he wrote: I have a mortgage
investment banking business to run,
He does(?), and he shouts (and rants) like this over HIS PROBLEMS?
Perhaps the list would like to know his business name in order to avoid it.
Terence
Screw you too Terence. WTF is wrong with my problems? They're yours too.
I am a catalyst, and I must depend on my OS because I have much more important things to do. And the nature of these problems is failure of integration. We all know that. And we all know that they're doing their best. But it's not good enough to operate at this point.
Yeah, there are problems with K3 too, and though I don't blame these on Suse, that only compounds it for me. I will give it one more shot, because I am a (former) acolyte. But that's it.
I have to chime in with my .02 here. It never ceases to amaze me that every time a .0 release comes out, someone will load it on a server, and scream because it's not as stable as their old .3 release was. Folks, just in case a few of you haven't yet figured it out yet, .0 releases are barely more than beta, and shouldn't be used on servers. I don't know why people always need to be reminded of that. The guys at SuSE, or Mandrake, or RedHat, or where ever, do their very best to bring all the packages together into a cohesive, runnable distribution. It's an amazingly complex thing to do, and no, it's not a perfect world. .0 releases will have bugs. It's a fact of life. Get used to it. If you have a production machine, leave it on the old .3 release, until the new version is stable, and stop pounding on the fine folks that put out your distro, so that they can get to the task of actually fixing things for the next release. If you load a .0 release, the assumption should be made that it's not stable, and you're loading it on a non-critical machine for testing, and evaluation. If you are "testing", and have found legitimate problems, document them, and "nicely" send them off to SuSE through the normal channels. Constructive criticism is actually welcome, and needed. That's how problems get fixed. Ranting & raving here will accomplish little beyond getting you added to a filter. If you think building a stable distro is a trivial matter, I challenge you to try it. If you're not willing to walk in their shoes, don't complain about their tracks. And that's all I have to say on the subject. Have a nice day. Ric
On Thursday 13 June 2002 08:04, you wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that every time a .0 release comes out, someone will load it on a server, and scream because it's not as stable as their old .3 release was.
So in your opinion, a .0 release being defective is a foregone conclusion? That's a shame. We used to call those "beta" releases. And you feel that 8.0 is strictly for playing around with, and not for production? I wish Suse had made that clear before I bought it. Look, I'm trying to be as even-handed as I can, given what this has cost me.
* Carl (quantum@ultra2k.com) [020613 07:19]: ::On Thursday 13 June 2002 08:04, you wrote: ::> It never ceases to amaze me that every time a .0 release comes out, someone ::> will load it on a server, and scream because it's not as stable as their ::> old .3 release was. :: :: ::So in your opinion, a .0 release being defective is a foregone conclusion? :: ::That's a shame. We used to call those "beta" releases. :: :: ::And you feel that 8.0 is strictly for playing around with, and not for ::production? :: ::I wish Suse had made that clear before I bought it. :: :: ::Look, I'm trying to be as even-handed as I can, given what this has cost me. What usually happens with .0 releases is that new features are intergrated...major changes are done and that's just the norm. A bit of advice I would give you. If you have a stable machine and it's not a security risk. DO NOT CHANGE IT. You can update the kernel if you need to for a feature need..if you don't need a new feature and there are no security risks...DON'T DO IT. I'm still running 7.2 at work because it suites my needs...and 7.3 at home because it suites my needs. You should always wait at least 30 days before getting to involved with a new release of anything unless it's a security risk fix. You should always watch for bug fixes in that timeframe because there will be fixes I can make a bet on that and win. With something as complicated as a Linux distribution that has over 2500+ pkgs and being a .0 release..w/ lots of underlying changes. I knew there would be some issues. You can't get upset for because of your newbie system admin attitude. It's unbecoming to whine about the fact that you weren't causious about upgrading production systems. And 8.0 isn't for playing around with anymore then 7.3 was..but I can say this.. I waited 5 weeks to go from 7.1 to 7.3 because there are ALWAYS things that aren't caught with this much software in such a complex system. After about 5 weeks of seeing patches released and watching the problems of people such as your self. I downloaded all the updates I needed and upgraded to 7.3 then applied the patches. I've had 7.3 running since with NO issues. It's simply a case of experience..I've found this method to work when dealing with Solaris as well.. Cheers! And calm down..go back to 7.3 for a bit..wait for the fixes you need and then put it on a test box. When your satisfied that it fits your needs..then upgrade. Simple. Regards, -=Ben --=====-----=====-- mailto:ben@whack.org --=====-- If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. -GC --=====-----=====--
On Thursday 13 June 2002 10:02, Carl wrote:
On Thursday 13 June 2002 08:04, you wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that every time a .0 release comes out, someone will load it on a server, and scream because it's not as stable as their old .3 release was.
So in your opinion, a .0 release being defective is a foregone conclusion?
That's a shame. We used to call those "beta" releases.
And you feel that 8.0 is strictly for playing around with, and not for production?
I wish Suse had made that clear before I bought it.
Look, I'm trying to be as even-handed as I can, given what this has cost me.
I don't know, I'm really digging 8.0. Everything just worked; it runs and runs. I had to do a couple of small things to get ext3 to journal root at boot up, but that only mattered if it crashed; which it doesn't. mg
participants (4)
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Ben Rosenberg
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Carl
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mike
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Tibbetts, Ric