On Tuesday 24 August 2004 18:02, Andy Prough wrote:

On Tuesday 24 August 2004 16:17, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* C Hamel [08-24-04 12:33]:

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I had to install/update/rinstall or install/update/unconditional update eight times before I learned my lesson which is: Rule of thumb to keep SuSE running like a well-oiled machine: NEVER apply updates! That rule of thumb covers 9.1 & 9.0... prior versions seem not so suseptible. If it ain't broke...

This is bad advice. Most of the updates offered by SuSE are security related and necessary.

Please consider the ramifications of what you say before very general and broadly inaccurate statements.

I absolutely agree that warning anyone against frequent updates is a horrible idea. Not just for security purposes, almost all of the updates have significant bug fixes as well. To keep a smooth running machine, those updates, frequently applied, are an absolute necessity.

One important thing to remember before upgrading to new KDE packages or doing other major package upgrades, is to do a thorough YAST Online Update of all of your existing packages first. And then, to grab ALL the needed package updates when you do an upgrade - such as the fact that normally, you have to upgrade your Qt packages in order for the new KDE packages to work.

Andy Prough Austin, Texas Okay, okay! I digress! Apparently you didn't see the eight times that updates broke the system...? Probably. Oh well... I still digress. :-) -- ..."Yogi" CH Namasté Yoga Studio "If music be the food of love, why can't rabbits sing?"

* C Hamel [08-24-04 19:28]:

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Okay, okay! I digress! Apparently you didn't see the eight times that updates broke the system...? Probably. Oh well... I still digress. :-)

the full quoting is *not* desirable. Please consider.

Eight times that *you* updated and broke *your* system. A condition which *may* happen to someone else, but not likely and *may* have been due to conditions particular to *your* settings, ie: something isn't right. If you cross-thread a bolt, the next X number of times you try to put a nut on it will fail, unless you chase the threads first.

You apparently have not been doing something right and are *very* consistant (and persistant).

Identify and *correct* the condition causing *your* failures.

ps: Please remember about the quoting, thanks. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/photos You are absolutely correct! Two systems, I should have said, as well as multiple posts to this list stating that things broke during updates. In my SuSE linux post list, I have 2189, as of this date, and very large portion of

On Tuesday 24 August 2004 19:55, Patrick Shanahan wrote: them deal w/broken stuff after updates. I am in somewhat unique circumstances, possibly, in the fact that I rarely have posted until recently. This was not by design, it was merely because, having stayed w/the initial installation, I have had absolutely no problems --and no YOU updates, either. When ever I break that practice I have to use the 'unconditional update' option & revert to what is on the CD. This is very worrysome, and I am not alone. Of course, there are exceptions! There always are! My major exception was RealPlayer10, which slid right in on one box, and I suspect it was because there was no previous installation so I didn't forget to uninstall the first (or try & be a big-shot (or big-sh*t) and keep both). Again, I digress. :-) -- ..."Yogi" CH Namasté Yoga Studio "If music be the food of love, why can't rabbits sing?"

On Wednesday 25 August 2004 02:28, C Hamel wrote:

On Tuesday 24 August 2004 18:02, Andy Prough wrote:

...

On Tuesday 24 August 2004 16:17, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* C Hamel [08-24-04 12:33]:

...

I had to install/update/rinstall or install/update/unconditional update eight times before I learned my lesson which is: Rule of thumb to keep SuSE running like a well-oiled machine: NEVER apply updates! That rule of thumb covers 9.1 & 9.0... prior versions seem not so suseptible. If it ain't broke...

This is bad advice. Most of the updates offered by SuSE are security related and necessary.

Please consider the ramifications of what you say before very general and broadly inaccurate statements.

I absolutely agree that warning anyone against frequent updates is a horrible idea. Not just for security purposes, almost all of the updates have significant bug fixes as well. To keep a smooth running machine, those updates, frequently applied, are an absolute necessity.

One important thing to remember before upgrading to new KDE packages or doing other major package upgrades, is to do a thorough YAST Online Update of all of your existing packages first. And then, to grab ALL the needed package updates when you do an upgrade - such as the fact that normally, you have to upgrade your Qt packages in order for the new KDE packages to work.

Okay, okay! I digress! Apparently you didn't see the eight times that updates broke the system...?

Hah, I see your point of view. Usually, upgrades are good. Usually, upgrades were good, but, alas, *not always*. So it would not be a bad idea to keep the previous packages at hand somewhere in case the new (upgraded) packages fail. Cheers, Leen

C wrote regarding 'Re: [SLE] Bad advice, was: Wow, possible bad YAS update.' on Tue, Aug 24 at 19:28:

On Tuesday 24 August 2004 18:02, Andy Prough wrote:

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I absolutely agree that warning anyone against frequent updates is a horrible idea. Not just for security purposes, almost all of the updates have significant bug fixes as well. To keep a smooth running machine, those updates, frequently applied, are an absolute necessity.

[...] Okay, okay! I digress! Apparently you didn't see the eight times that updates broke the system...? Probably. Oh well... I still digress. :-)

I've got 6 SuSE systems of various versions running here, and they are all updated with all of the relevent YOU updates as soon a the updates come out. I've had a total of one problem, and that problem arose because I had built a new package from source but neglected to package it in a neat RPM. In contrast, I had a 6.something SuSE machine a year or two ago that didn't get the ssh1 update. It's the only machine I've ever had cracked (not that it could never happen again), and it's also the only machine I neglected to keep up to date. I dunno, but perhaps the updates are good, but someone maintaining the system outside of the "standard" way could cause problems? ;) --Danny, who admittedly has more Linux experience than most, which is probably at least a minor part of the "secret to success"...