Hi Jerry,
I see that you are a software developer, Dave, working with the Kodak SDK. You got me :-0 Excellent, you must REALLY be on the ball to cross-reference me like that.
With such a technical background, how is it that you are having so much trouble? Yes, I have been coding since before IBM turned the micro-computer into a PC. My trouble is that I was looking for an alternative OS which didn't require the user to have a degree in computer science to make the smallest change in the system. Not that windoze is easy, but it doesn't constantly require the user to enter mystical, cryptic strings through a command line to get the simplest things done. I have spent years getting my head around the obscurities of several programming languages, but I don't want an OS that I have to use as if I were writing code all the time. IMHO Linux is (and will be for the foreseeable future) work in progress for the mainstream user and I hope to still be around when that work is complete.
SInce SuSE 7.3 Pro is only $70 I am curious how you could spend "hundreds" of dollars getting it to work? I spent AU$177 to get the Suse distro and several hundred more AU$ on VMware, plus buying additional licences for the Linux versions of other software I use.
Did you buy a bunch of hardware? No
(And if you did, how is that different from having to upgrade hardware to run each new upgrade of WinXX?) The point you are making was exactly my motivation in trying to switch to Linux.
Were you trying to 'dual boot' and put both Linux and Windows partitions on your HD? No, I installed Linux on a totally separate box.
In my experience SuSE 7.3 was a total joy to install. My clean install was by far the most hands-free I've ever experienced with either Linux or Windows. I am in total agreement with you there. The problems start after installation when anything needs to be configured. Linux may possibly be the greatest networking OS in the universe, but it is an absolute bitch to set up it's networking configuration.
BTW, Boot your floppy and run "fdisk /mbr" to restore the Master Boot Record on the HD. Thanks, I had a total memory blackout on that one.
What 'cryptic keyboard incantations' were you trying to make, and why? To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
Didn't you use YaST2? If not, why not? Yes, but while YaST2 is a big improvement, it cannot do everything. Many thanks for your response. Regards Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.291 / Virus Database: 156 - Release Date: 25.10.2001
I have one all-encompasing comment to make... WEBMIN is your friend.... www.webmin.com - it's a GUI that allows you to tweak or configure almost EVERYTHING on a Linux system easily and quickly - yes, I use it - I know it's cheating, but I like it...:-) Jon
On Tuesday 06 November 2001 20:55, you wrote:
I have one all-encompasing comment to make... WEBMIN is your friend....
www.webmin.com - it's a GUI that allows you to tweak or configure almost EVERYTHING on a Linux system easily and quickly - yes, I use it - I know it's cheating, but I like it...:-)
Jon Hi: Has anyone pointed you to the SuSE Knowledgebase and the article about the SuSE 7.3 installilation problems some are having. Seems the install goes badly on some machines due to imporper hardware detection and configuration. The fix is simple to add disableapic in boot options after the hang up or crash during install when you reboot. The install will then complete correctly. I have also noticed several YAST upgrades including one for adsl configuration. I had a ton of problems till I stumbled upon the article and read it I used rp pppoe for my adsl connection till I got all the patches installed then reconfigured adsl now my 7.3 box runs well.
Ralph -- It said uses Windows 98 or better so I installed SuSE 7.3 Proud user of SuSE 7.3 Professional Register Linux User 168814 ICQ #49993234 GPG Public Key available at http://www.keyserver.net Key fingerprint = 6426 1CFF 0987 9D51 76D6 06BC F22A CFF4 559A 03E7
On Tuesday 06 November 2001 08:47 pm, Dave Barton wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I see that you are a software developer, Dave, working with the
Kodak SDK. You got me :-0 Excellent, you must REALLY be on the ball to foreseeable future) work in progress for the mainstream user and I hope to still be around when that work is complete.
You will be around, its come so fast sometimes my head spins. And I predict youe going to get addicted and release a couple of utilities that make it even more complete...
SInce SuSE 7.3 Pro is only $70 I am curious how you could spend "hundreds" of dollars getting it to work?
I spent AU$177 to get the Suse distro and several hundred more AU$ on VMware, plus buying additional licences for the Linux versions of other software I use.
Did you buy a bunch of hardware?
No
(And if you did, how is that different from having to upgrade hardware to run each new upgrade of WinXX?)
The point you are making was exactly my motivation in trying to switch to Linux.
Were you trying to 'dual boot' and put both Linux and Windows partitions on your HD?
No, I installed Linux on a totally separate box.
In my experience SuSE 7.3 was a total joy to install. My clean install was by far the most hands-free I've ever experienced with either Linux or Windows.
I am in total agreement with you there. The problems start after installation when anything needs to be configured. Linux may possibly be the greatest networking OS in the universe, but it is an absolute bitch to set up it's networking configuration.
You're stuck on the Networking setup? One of my favourite things to play with (barring x-plane)! What are you stuck with? Its important to know, as SuSE do read this list and note down things to improve. Your current headache may well be improved in the next version...
BTW, Boot your floppy and run "fdisk /mbr" to restore the Master Boot Record on the HD.
Thanks, I had a total memory blackout on that one.
What 'cryptic keyboard incantations' were you trying to make, and
why? To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
We're not getting bored....Dangle this carrot in front of us and then pull away grrr.
Didn't you use YaST2? If not, why not? Yes, but while YaST2 is a big improvement, it cannot do everything.
Nope it cannot yet, others mentioned webmin and I also mention trying to get this fixed here under the noses of people who want to know what is not working. In many ways its bad to have Linux experts around, we already know enough and won suggest things to make it easier for people who are new... Don't think you're being bothersome, welcome to Open Source...That also means open and free help as a way of giving back. Not everyone can directly give to the Kernel or write amazing programs... Matt
SInce SuSE 7.3 Pro is only $70 I am curious how you could spend "hundreds" of dollars getting it to work? I spent AU$177 to get the Suse distro and several hundred more AU$ on VMware, plus buying additional licences for the Linux versions of other software I use.
That I think was your first mistake - WHY do you think you wanted VMware?
In my experience SuSE 7.3 was a total joy to install. My clean install was by far the most hands-free I've ever experienced with either Linux or Windows. I am in total agreement with you there. The problems start after installation when anything needs to be configured. Linux may possibly be the greatest networking OS in the universe, but it is an absolute bitch to set up it's networking configuration.
Mine went fine, I even got the FTP server running at the first attempt. My Windows network is an utter pig with versions of W98SE, NT4, & W2k, and since loading XP I've had to start logging into each machine even though there are no passwords on the other machines( XP will not run without a password set! ). At least linux is consistent on network side.
What 'cryptic keyboard incantations' were you trying to make, and why? To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
If you are not used to Unix, then don't run before you can walk. I only use my Linux machine for internet access and Star Office for all documentation and it is stable - but I am still developing Builder5 applications on Windows which is not. Changing that is MY next stepping stone. -- Lester Caine ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services
Hi, Dave: I would like to add my own advice to the plethora you've already received. 1. Give the whole project a day or two of rest. Busy yourself with something totally unrelated to computers and operating systems. 2. Try a ***default*** install. Keep it as small and simple as possible. Forget about VMWare and networking for the time being. Learn to crawl - then walk. The 'bells and whistles' can be added later - *anytime* later. 3. If you can't get a decent, uneventful installation, the post results, error messages, symptoms etc. here for us to examine. Someone here will spot the likely cause of your problem(s). I began using (well, **trying** to use) Linux in late '94 when you had to make and install from an armload of 5-1/4" or 3-1/2" floppies. It took months before I could set up fetchmail, sendmail, and Pine, and connect to the Internet so I could *post* questions on a mailing list. I felt like I was 'flying blind' most of the time. Little by little, Linux started to make sense. I often find myself in 'uncharted waters' but there's much better documentation available now, and some of the best people and best help you will ever find on this list. I am 'dumber than a box of rocks,' with no formal computer science training, but I use Linux daily as my operating system of choice. If I and others like me can learn Linux, so can you. I encourage you to give yourself a chance. You'll be glad you did. Regards, Glenn Williams - n0hn@abq-nm.com Registered Linux uer # 135678
I am not from the computer world (I am an economist and the last tyime I programmed at the University was abt 28years ago : FORTRAN IV G !!!! But forgot everything). Linux is just a matter of adaptation, reading the book, yes, but first of all, trying, reading the suse.com online support or the KDE help included in the soft. When, 9 years ago I bought my first 386 with DOS5.0/windows 3.1 on board, it costed me more adaptation time, than now Linux. I feel Your error is trying to get everything working with Linux at once. Why don't You enjoy, like somebody else suggested, the LILO facilities at first, have the choice for running whether w98,2000,... either Linux upon boot ? When You'll be more familiar with it, Yu'll configure Your networkm then, samba, aso,... Don't be into a hurry,... step by step, ... In french, man says :"Qui va lentement, va sûrement !". Dave Barton wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I see that you are a software developer, Dave, working with the Kodak SDK. You got me :-0 Excellent, you must REALLY be on the ball to cross-reference me like that.
With such a technical background, how is it that you are having so much trouble? Yes, I have been coding since before IBM turned the micro-computer into a PC. My trouble is that I was looking for an alternative OS which didn't require the user to have a degree in computer science to make the smallest change in the system. Not that windoze is easy, but it doesn't constantly require the user to enter mystical, cryptic strings through a command line to get the simplest things done. I have spent years getting my head around the obscurities of several programming languages, but I don't want an OS that I have to use as if I were writing code all the time. IMHO Linux is (and will be for the foreseeable future) work in progress for the mainstream user and I hope to still be around when that work is complete.
SInce SuSE 7.3 Pro is only $70 I am curious how you could spend "hundreds" of dollars getting it to work? I spent AU$177 to get the Suse distro and several hundred more AU$ on VMware, plus buying additional licences for the Linux versions of other software I use.
Did you buy a bunch of hardware? No
(And if you did, how is that different from having to upgrade hardware to run each new upgrade of WinXX?) The point you are making was exactly my motivation in trying to switch to Linux.
Were you trying to 'dual boot' and put both Linux and Windows partitions on your HD? No, I installed Linux on a totally separate box.
In my experience SuSE 7.3 was a total joy to install. My clean install was by far the most hands-free I've ever experienced with either Linux or Windows. I am in total agreement with you there. The problems start after installation when anything needs to be configured. Linux may possibly be the greatest networking OS in the universe, but it is an absolute bitch to set up it's networking configuration.
BTW, Boot your floppy and run "fdisk /mbr" to restore the Master Boot Record on the HD. Thanks, I had a total memory blackout on that one.
What 'cryptic keyboard incantations' were you trying to make, and why? To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
Didn't you use YaST2? If not, why not? Yes, but while YaST2 is a big improvement, it cannot do everything.
Many thanks for your response.
Regards Dave
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.291 / Virus Database: 156 - Release Date: 25.10.2001
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Dave Barton wrote:
To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
Wrong :-) This list is very patient! I can't look into your time table, but if you're still willing to give it another try, I'm sure this list is more than willing to answer all of your questions. Like another listmember said: install SuSE Linux as dual boot with the OS you're comfortable with. You can then learn Linux at a pace you're comfortable with. Ask any question you like, preferably one in each mail, with a descriptive subjectline and a clear problem description. You'll be amazed how much and how fast you'll learn and how much fun you'll have while doing so. Cheers, Marcel
I am giving it another try and I have already done as you suggested, by putting in another HDD and installing Suse Linux as a dual boot. At the moment I have only done the install and got the basics working (AOK so far), but I will start delving a little deeper this weekend, so you folks can expect my stupid questions to start coming very soon. Just remember, you asked for it ;-)
Just remember Dave, the only "stupid question" is the one you don't ask !! Jon P.S. I'm usually on-line almost all weekend (hey, I have a good ISP !!), so feel free to drop me a line - I'm upgrading 4 x boxen from 7.x to 7.3...:-) --
On Tuesday 06 November 2001 22:47, Dave Barton wrote:
Hi Jerry,
I see that you are a software developer, Dave, working with the
Kodak SDK. You got me :-0 Excellent, you must REALLY be on the ball to cross-reference me like that.
Elementry google, my dear Watson!
With such a technical background, how is it that you are having so
much trouble? Yes, I have been coding since before IBM turned the micro-computer into a PC. My trouble is that I was looking for an alternative OS
Uh, oh.... you are dating yourself! :) I'll bet you've got some gray hair! I went to the Barnes School of Business in 1959 to learn how to operate the IBM 402 Tabulators. They weighed 4,000 lbs and that's how the term 'big iron' got started. I never could get a job because even though I was 18 I looked 14. Now I'm 60 and I look 70. :( But, I ended up in college majoring in Science, which led to Fortran in grad school, which eventually led to learning more than a dozen languages and my own consulting business. The, after teaching/consulting for about 35 years I retired to part-time consulting. One of my clients was the state, and they gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.
which didn't require the user to have a degree in computer science to make the smallest change in the system. Not that windoze is easy, but it doesn't constantly require the user to enter mystical, cryptic strings through a command line to get the simplest things done.
What things do you have reference to? (You are probably aware of "man" and "info", and the 'How-to"s.)
I have spent years getting my head around the obscurities of several programming languages, but I don't want an OS that I have to use as if I were writing code all the time. IMHO Linux is (and will be for the foreseeable future) work in progress for the mainstream user and I hope to still be around when that work is complete.
mmmm.... I run KDE 99.99% of the time. The only command line utilities that I'll pop an xterm for are: startx - I don't like the loop that xdm and kdm put you in. whereis - to locate a file locate - to list files whose names containing certain characters Two or three years ago I used the command-line a lot. You had to. But now KDE has made Linux MUCH MUCH easier to use, especially for the novices.
SInce SuSE 7.3 Pro is only $70 I am curious how you could spend "hundreds" of dollars getting it to work?
I spent AU$177 to get the Suse distro and several hundred more AU$ on VMware, plus buying additional licences for the Linux versions of other software I use.
Oh, VMware. I've heard good and bad about it. I use WINE when possible, but the only need I have had for it lately was to run the new QuickTime app from codeweavers. Runs slick. But, software licenses for 3rd party apps don't really count, because you have to pay for those for WinXX too. On the good side, Linux offers a TON of high-quality apps that are free. In the graphics areas, besides GIMP, are Blender, which is also free.
Did you buy a bunch of hardware?
No
(And if you did, how is that different from having to upgrade hardware to run each new upgrade of WinXX?)
The point you are making was exactly my motivation in trying to switch to Linux.
My motivation was crashes. I purchased a new PC on Dec 29th, 1996. It was a Sony VAIO with Win95 and Sony's MEDI-KIT. Between that day and May 7th I had to do a complete re-format, re-install of Win95 FIVE times! I was so disgusted that I started looking for another OS. My idea was to switch to OS/2, which I had tried when I was running Win 3.11 FWG, but abandon because Bill Gates kept tweeking Win3.11 with 'updates', the sole purpose of which were to disable OS/2. It worked. Running Win3.11 apps under OS/2 became impossible, but I was too stupid to realize where Gates was leading me, and decide to get the Sony with the NEW Win95. While browsing the bookstore to read about the Latest release of OS/2 I noticed a book titled "Learn Linux in 24 Hours", by Bill Bush. It had a CD of RH 5.0 in the back and cost only $24, so I took it home and installed it dual boot with a fresh install of my Win95. I ran fwm95 as the desktop and learned Linux in about 30 hours ;-P.. During my time on the Linux side I noticed that the Sony was very stable and reliable, the very opposite of what Microsoft support was telling me. The Sony only crashed when it was running Win95. My first purchase was a WordPerfect 8.0 CD for $40, and the OSS sound driver for $15. Then I purchased Applix. WP and OSS were great. Applix was.... not so great. When Corel WP 2000 came out I tried it, but found it too slow and unstable for my Sony hardware, and too instable also. It was built on top of WINE and when I did an strace to see what it was doing, the phantom crash trapping convinced me to get a refund. Then SO 5.1 and 5.2 came out. SO 5.2 is great. So is SO 6. I found that Visual Age for Java on Linux ran identically to VAJ 3.0 for Windows at work, but faster and no crashing. Anyway, I decided to wean myself off of WIn95. MoneyDance and MuPAD were the last two apps that I needed to make the break. On Jan 1st, 1999 I deleted Win95 from my HD and have been WinXX free every since. I did run my CD of StreetAtlas 5.0 once to see if it would run under WINE. It did, but it was a lot easier to fire a mapping program on the Internet.
Were you trying to 'dual boot' and put both Linux and Windows partitions on your HD?
No, I installed Linux on a totally separate box.
In my experience SuSE 7.3 was a total joy to install. My clean install was by far the most hands-free I've ever experienced with either Linux or Windows.
I am in total agreement with you there. The problems start after installation when anything needs to be configured. Linux may possibly be the greatest networking OS in the universe, but it is an absolute bitch to set up it's networking configuration.
Setting up my network was when I had a senior moment.... the switch from IPv4 to and IPv4-IPv6 mix, where the traditional network classes have been abandon in favor of the 128 bit IP address mode came unexpectedly. It didn't appear that the loopback was being set, so I was setting it. Yast2 was following my directions for setting up the routing table, but was always making the loopback the gateway. I sent up a help message to suse-e-linux and someone mentioned using a "-a" parameter with 'ifconfig" (one of those commandline thingies:) and it showed that even when I removed all the NIC intializations and emptied the routing table, then put in the NIC command manually, the loopback config was done automatically! Once I realized that I used YaST2 to make the NIC IP of my wife's Sony (my old machine) as the Gateway in that dropdown listbox, and nothing else in the routing table... and bingo! Everything worked. My past experience was making it too hard because I WASN'T reading the docs on things I thought I new quite well.
BTW, Boot your floppy and run "fdisk /mbr" to restore the Master Boot Record on the HD.
Thanks, I had a total memory blackout on that one.
What 'cryptic keyboard incantations' were you trying to make, and
why? To answer that question would take forever and I think this list is probably getting bored with this thread by now. Suffice it to say that, while I would love to go with Linux, I don't have the time to learn all the intricacies necessary to make it work for me. Neither do I think that this list would have the patience to answer all my questions.
I'll bet the list wouldn't get bored, that is what it is here for! It has enough patience to put up with a 60 year old fossil like me.
Didn't you use YaST2? If not, why not? Yes, but while YaST2 is a big improvement, it cannot do everything.
True. Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux. If that doesn't then Gates desire that you pay him $1,500 up front and then "per-use" to use his software development tools to write apps that your clients will have to pay $10,000 up front and then per-use to use, while their data is being held hostage on passport servers that Gates can't protect for any length of time, certainly will drive you back. See ya then! :) Jerry
Many thanks for your response.
Regards Dave
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.291 / Virus Database: 156 - Release Date: 25.10.2001
Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux.
It's interesting how many "bugfixes" Microsoft have released over the years for their products (in all categories). remember when Gates compared the Software industry to the Automotive industry, and said that if the laffer progressed at the same rate as the former, we'd all br driving cars that got 1000 miler per gallon, cost $10 and didn't need maintenance - you'd just throw it away and buy a new one. I was musing over this and I thought; I winder who would but a car from GM / Chrysler / <dbrand-of-choice> if you knew that, like (for example, Windows XP); a. It might not work. b. If it DID work, it *could* be unreliable, crash frequently, and have to be fixed by frequent recalls and "patches" No-one would buy it - at least not without suing the arse off the manufacturer for producting a product "not of merchantable quality", or one that was "unfit for the purpose for which it was intended" - both these reasons are sufficient, under Australian comsumer laws at least, for legal action to be taken against the PRODUCER (not the vendor of the software, but the MANUFACTURER) to either refund the purchase price OR fix the problem - and this at the discretion of the PURCHASER. Have a look, if you are bored or having a crap, at the Microsoft EULA - I haven't yet, but I just bet there is a disclaimer in there to the effect that "Microsoft provides this software with no warranties, implied or specific, as to merchantability or fitness-for-use", or words to that effect. I wonder what would happen if, for example, I purchased XP and installed it on the minimum spec machine (as on the box), and it didn't run ? I could have a ball suing Microsoft for making false and misleading statements...:-) Food for thought, no ?
On Wednesday 07 November 2001 17:39, Jon Biddell wrote:
Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux.
It's interesting how many "bugfixes" Microsoft have released over the years for their products (in all categories).
Bill even remarked, to a German journalist who was interviewing him and asked about "all the bugs in Windows", that there were NO bugs in Windows software. I keep that reminder of his total lack of credulity on my office wall.
remember when Gates compared the Software industry to the Automotive industry, and said that if the laffer progressed at the same rate as the former, we'd all br driving cars that got 1000 miler per gallon, cost $10 and didn't need maintenance - you'd just throw it away and buy a new one.
I was musing over this and I thought; I winder who would but a car from GM / Chrysler / <dbrand-of-choice> if you knew that, like (for example, Windows XP);
a. It might not work. b. If it DID work, it *could* be unreliable, crash frequently, and have to be fixed by frequent recalls and "patches"
No-one would buy it - at least not without suing the arse off the manufacturer for producting a product "not of merchantable quality", or one that was "unfit for the purpose for which it was intended" - both these reasons are sufficient, under Australian comsumer laws at least, for legal action to be taken against the PRODUCER (not the vendor of the software, but the MANUFACTURER) to either refund the purchase price OR fix the problem - and this at the discretion of the PURCHASER.
Have a look, if you are bored or having a crap, at the Microsoft EULA - I haven't yet, but I just bet there is a disclaimer in there to the effect that "Microsoft provides this software with no warranties, implied or specific, as to merchantability or fitness-for-use", or words to that effect.
The license on FrontPage is even worse. It denies you any rights to use the software on sites that Microsoft won't approve of. So are the parts of the EULA that says you cannot tell other people about your experiences with Microsoft software without asking Gates for permission. Did you see Ralph Nada's summary of the attrocious holes in the MS-DOJ agreement. One I wasn't aware of was the MS gets to choose one of the three watchdog committee members, and that one has a voice in choosing the other third. ALso, the committee will be housed in the Microsoft office, paid by microsoft and will be gagged. No reports to the public about how well or not MS is following the agreement. This reduces the agreement to a license for MS to steal. JLK
I wonder what would happen if, for example, I purchased XP and installed it on the minimum spec machine (as on the box), and it didn't run ? I could have a ball suing Microsoft for making false and misleading statements...:-)
Food for thought, no ?
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:28, Jerry Kreps wrote:
On Wednesday 07 November 2001 17:39, Jon Biddell wrote:
Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux.
It's interesting how many "bugfixes" Microsoft have released over the years for their products (in all categories).
Bill even remarked, to a German journalist who was interviewing him and asked about "all the bugs in Windows", that there were NO bugs in Windows software. I keep that reminder of his total lack of credulity on my office wall.
Any chance you could scan that little piece of information and email me a copy - I'll pot it on my Microsoft web site for all to see and chortle at, as well as on MY office wall...:-) Jon P.S. Picked up 7.3 today - at 10:30pm I'm about to start an UPGRADE of my main workstation. If this doesn't go well, I intend to get VERY drunk, then do a fresh install tomorrow!!
On Thursday 08 November 2001 05:37, Jon Biddell wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:28, Jerry Kreps wrote:
On Wednesday 07 November 2001 17:39, Jon Biddell wrote:
Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux.
It's interesting how many "bugfixes" Microsoft have released over the years for their products (in all categories).
Bill even remarked, to a German journalist who was interviewing him and asked about "all the bugs in Windows", that there were NO bugs in Windows software. I keep that reminder of his total lack of credulity on my office wall.
Any chance you could scan that little piece of information and email me a copy - I'll pot it on my Microsoft web site for all to see and chortle at, as well as on MY office wall...:-)
Jon
P.S. Picked up 7.3 today - at 10:30pm I'm about to start an UPGRADE of my main workstation. If this doesn't go well, I intend to get VERY drunk, then do a fresh install tomorrow!!
The fresh install should work perfectly, drunk or not! :) I'll see if I can find that piece via google first. Jerry
On Thursday 08 November 2001 05:37, Jon Biddell wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:28, Jerry Kreps wrote:
On Wednesday 07 November 2001 17:39, Jon Biddell wrote:
Well, I'll make a bet that Gate's need to churn the Windows user base for more income to keep his kingdom afloat by constant upgrades that cost more and require more powerful hardware, combined with he paranoia about 'pirates' and his tendency to ignore basic freedoms, like speech and association, will eventually drive you back to Linux.
It's interesting how many "bugfixes" Microsoft have released over the years for their products (in all categories).
Bill even remarked, to a German journalist who was interviewing him and asked about "all the bugs in Windows", that there were NO bugs in Windows software. I keep that reminder of his total lack of credulity on my office wall.
Any chance you could scan that little piece of information and email me a copy - I'll pot it on my Microsoft web site for all to see and chortle at, as well as on MY office wall...:-)
Jon
P.S. Picked up 7.3 today - at 10:30pm I'm about to start an UPGRADE of my main workstation. If this doesn't go well, I intend to get VERY drunk, then do a fresh install tomorrow!!
Here is that "no bugs in windows" quote: http://www.math.uni-bonn.de/people/tgm/unglaublich.html Gates probably thinks that a little dog poop in chocolate chip cookies doesn't matter either.
participants (9)
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Dave Barton -
Glenn Williams -
Jacek Boboli -
Jerry Kreps -
Jon Biddell -
lester＠lsces.co.uk -
Marcel Broekman -
Ralph De Witt -
StarTux