Hi everyone, Yes, I've advocated a 1 cd version of SuSE before, but this idea is different. Infact, this idea is for a version of SuSE _I_wouldn't_want_. Intrigued? This is a _really_long_message_, so if you aren't intruiged, you probably should stop before you get bored reading this. :-) Here is my idea: SuSEdesk (one CD, one 5 page or less Install Guide, all inside a Jewel Case). The idea behind this distro came to me as I was comtemplating how to make Linux even more accessible to newbies. Much of these problems have been resolved: no longer is it necessary to run a cryptic setup tool, no longer does the default installation style dump you at a bash prompt, and no longer is there a lack of application integration. What's left? I think a few simple things could go a long way, and these are the things that would be in SuSEdesk: 1.) KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid. While I personally love a distro with over 2000 apps, it's confusing to the newbie. Even SuSE Personal Edition has way to many packages for Mr. Windows User. So, keep it simple, include only the absolute basics: - KDE (current version): Let's face it, I think KDE can fairly be called the most newbie ready D.E. around. It is also stable, and has Anti-Aliasing just like Windows users expect (NOTE: I'd include all of KDE except for KOffice - the newbie should even see an office suite that "will be ready real soon now" (tm)) - StarOffice: I personally don't like it, but it's the best alternative office suite out there right now. - Various necessities such as X11, twm, and pico. But even here, I'd limit what goes in. No lynx. No vi. No emacs. No Netscape (Konqueror is the best choice, IMO, for the newbie). - A few multimedia apps: XMMS (even newbies use WinAmp or Windows Media Player), Penguis (even newbie wants a fun game), and RealPlayer (this should be in all versions of SuSE). - A few things SuSE could develop: A special multimedia tutorial for newbies, a Windows TrueType font importer (that automatically mounts the Windows drive, finds c:\windows or c:\winnt, copies those fonts, and then makes fonts.dir and fonts.scale), and finally information on SuSE Personal and Profession for the newbie to upgrade to when they are ready. As you can see, I've cut out a lot of the standbys. I didn't include GNOME (having two D.E.'s would only complicate things), I didn't include Netscape/Mozilla, and I didn't include all the console apps a newbie couldn't use even if he needed to. 2.) KIES. Keep it easy stupid. Installation shouldn't bombared users with complex questions they can't understand. I personally would remove package selection (since there is only a few packages anyway), and just install all of the packages above. Further more, I would do the following: - Elimite the X11 setup step. Unless the hardware can not be autodetected, this page shouldn't show up in SuSEdesk. - Elimate all of the Misc. hardware setup page, except bringing up a page to enter the phone number of an ISP. This page could have a button that said "Advanced: Setup DSL or Cable Modem Service." Other thing such as file and printer sharing could be taken care by creating a simple little "Home Networking Setup Tool", that would attempt to make samba setup as easy as smb networking setup is in Windows ME. 3.) KISL. Keep it simple looking. Firstly, SuSEdesk should have a very simple package design. On the front, I would think just a picture of Geeko, the SuSE logo, and the name "SuSEdesk" (with the words "Powered by Linux" in small italcs under it) would suffice. On the back, I see something like "Easy. Stable. Fast." as the headline on the back, next a picture of Geeko. Under the headline, it would describe - in simple terms - something like this: "You are holding in your hands one of the most fastest, most stable, and easiest to use operating systems ever created. SuSEdesk can run next to Microsoft(R) Windows(R) or can replace Microsoft(R) Windows(R). SuSEdesk is ready to use right out of the box with: - A Microsoft(R) Office(R) Replacement - Multimedia tools for Internet Audio and Video and MP3's - BONUS: A fun 3D Game - A Special Tutorial Unlike other leading PC operating systems, SuSEdesk crashes vary rarely, which helps you avoid loosing data, and further more means your system will be running when you need it. SuSEdesk has been developed with ease of use in mind, and can install on your existing Windows(R) based system in minutes. ------------------- Requirements Nearly any PC capible of running Microsoft(R) Windows(R) 98 (A 486/66 with 48 megs of RAM and a Sound Blaster sound card is recommended. A modem or network card is required for internet access) -------------------- SuSEdesk is powered by Linux 2.4. Microsoft is a trademark of Microsoft Corp. SuSEdesk is not endorsed by Microsoft Corp." Note that in my little package, I only mention Linux twice on the whole thing. This is because the user won't care if it is Linux or not. They are probably only interested in the price and stability. Still, I mention Linux on the front so that those who are intruiged by Linux, realize it's Linux. Also in the Look Dept., I would cover up the boot messages at startup with a picture of Tux or Geeko and the name "SuSEdesk" plastered on there. In smaller print, there could be the words SuSE Linux is Starting up..." and a percentage bar so the newbie knows it is actually working while this screen is shown. 4.) Finally, KICS. Keep it cheap stupid. I think I'd price this software between $25-$35. The price would be close to that of Personal Edition, but even though it would lack some of the Personal Edition stuff, I think it would do well - because it was simple. Any comments, anyone? Anything sound undoable? -Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
Ok, but I'd include Netscape 4.7 because there are still too many websites that Konqueror can't handle. For example, the intellicast website has regional and metro radar loops that Konqueror can't handle. The chat room on Universal Thread is currently beyond Konqueror. Also, the mail part of Netscape may be all the mail and news an ex-win newbie might need. How about WinSu or SuSEWin for a name? Personally, though, I like the fact that SuSE packs all those apps onto the CD set. I further like the fact that they adjust them to load into the menus (or unload). It's part of what makes SuSE sooooo goooood! JLK On Saturday 28 April 2001 19:24, Timothy R.Butler wrote:
Hi everyone, Yes, I've advocated a 1 cd version of SuSE before, but this idea is different. Infact, this idea is for a version of SuSE _I_wouldn't_want_. Intrigued?
This is a _really_long_message_, so if you aren't intruiged, you probably should stop before you get bored reading this. :-)
Here is my idea: SuSEdesk (one CD, one 5 page or less Install Guide, all inside a Jewel Case).
The idea behind this distro came to me as I was comtemplating how to make Linux even more accessible to newbies. Much of these problems have been resolved: no longer is it necessary to run a cryptic setup tool, no longer does the default installation style dump you at a bash prompt, and no longer is there a lack of application integration. What's left? I think a few simple things could go a long way, and these are the things that would be in SuSEdesk:
1.) KISS: Keep It Simple Stupid. While I personally love a distro with over 2000 apps, it's confusing to the newbie. Even SuSE Personal Edition has way to many packages for Mr. Windows User. So, keep it simple, include only the absolute basics:
- KDE (current version): Let's face it, I think KDE can fairly be called the most newbie ready D.E. around. It is also stable, and has Anti-Aliasing just like Windows users expect (NOTE: I'd include all of KDE except for KOffice - the newbie should even see an office suite that "will be ready real soon now" (tm)) - StarOffice: I personally don't like it, but it's the best alternative office suite out there right now. - Various necessities such as X11, twm, and pico. But even here, I'd limit what goes in. No lynx. No vi. No emacs. No Netscape (Konqueror is the best choice, IMO, for the newbie). - A few multimedia apps: XMMS (even newbies use WinAmp or Windows Media Player), Penguis (even newbie wants a fun game), and RealPlayer (this should be in all versions of SuSE). - A few things SuSE could develop: A special multimedia tutorial for newbies, a Windows TrueType font importer (that automatically mounts the Windows drive, finds c:\windows or c:\winnt, copies those fonts, and then makes fonts.dir and fonts.scale), and finally information on SuSE Personal and Profession for the newbie to upgrade to when they are ready.
As you can see, I've cut out a lot of the standbys. I didn't include GNOME (having two D.E.'s would only complicate things), I didn't include Netscape/Mozilla, and I didn't include all the console apps a newbie couldn't use even if he needed to.
2.) KIES. Keep it easy stupid. Installation shouldn't bombared users with complex questions they can't understand. I personally would remove package selection (since there is only a few packages anyway), and just install all of the packages above. Further more, I would do the following:
- Elimite the X11 setup step. Unless the hardware can not be autodetected, this page shouldn't show up in SuSEdesk. - Elimate all of the Misc. hardware setup page, except bringing up a page to enter the phone number of an ISP. This page could have a button that said "Advanced: Setup DSL or Cable Modem Service." Other thing such as file and printer sharing could be taken care by creating a simple little "Home Networking Setup Tool", that would attempt to make samba setup as easy as smb networking setup is in Windows ME.
3.) KISL. Keep it simple looking. Firstly, SuSEdesk should have a very simple package design. On the front, I would think just a picture of Geeko, the SuSE logo, and the name "SuSEdesk" (with the words "Powered by Linux" in small italcs under it) would suffice. On the back, I see something like "Easy. Stable. Fast." as the headline on the back, next a picture of Geeko. Under the headline, it would describe - in simple terms - something like this:
"You are holding in your hands one of the most fastest, most stable, and easiest to use operating systems ever created. SuSEdesk can run next to Microsoft(R) Windows(R) or can replace Microsoft(R) Windows(R). SuSEdesk is ready to use right out of the box with:
- A Microsoft(R) Office(R) Replacement - Multimedia tools for Internet Audio and Video and MP3's - BONUS: A fun 3D Game - A Special Tutorial
Unlike other leading PC operating systems, SuSEdesk crashes vary rarely, which helps you avoid loosing data, and further more means your system will be running when you need it. SuSEdesk has been developed with ease of use in mind, and can install on your existing Windows(R) based system in minutes.
------------------- Requirements Nearly any PC capible of running Microsoft(R) Windows(R) 98 (A 486/66 with 48 megs of RAM and a Sound Blaster sound card is recommended. A modem or network card is required for internet access) -------------------- SuSEdesk is powered by Linux 2.4. Microsoft is a trademark of Microsoft Corp. SuSEdesk is not endorsed by Microsoft Corp."
Note that in my little package, I only mention Linux twice on the whole thing. This is because the user won't care if it is Linux or not. They are probably only interested in the price and stability. Still, I mention Linux on the front so that those who are intruiged by Linux, realize it's Linux.
Also in the Look Dept., I would cover up the boot messages at startup with a picture of Tux or Geeko and the name "SuSEdesk" plastered on there. In smaller print, there could be the words SuSE Linux is Starting up..." and a percentage bar so the newbie knows it is actually working while this screen is shown.
4.) Finally, KICS. Keep it cheap stupid. I think I'd price this software between $25-$35. The price would be close to that of Personal Edition, but even though it would lack some of the Personal Edition stuff, I think it would do well - because it was simple.
Any comments, anyone? Anything sound undoable?
-Tim
Ok, but I'd include Netscape 4.7 because there are still too many websites that Konqueror can't handle. For example, the intellicast website has regional and metro radar loops that Konqueror can't handle. The chat room on Universal Thread is currently beyond Konqueror. Also, the mail part of Netscape may be all the mail and news an ex-win newbie might need.
Yeah, I suppose that wouldn't hurt. Netscape could be tucked into the Internet tools menu in KDE (incase it was needed), the main difference on the desktop being that I would make sure Konqueror was the browser linked to on the desktop. Konqueror 2.1.x is quite good, and I suspect by 2.2 it will have very few points where it is beat by Netscape.
How about WinSu or SuSEWin for a name?
I like it. "Windows Plus" would be good too, but I'm afraid that might give Microsoft lawyers a field day. :-)
Personally, though, I like the fact that SuSE packs all those apps onto the CD set. I further like the fact that they adjust them to load into the menus (or unload). It's part of what makes SuSE sooooo goooood!>
Yeah, I agree. As I mentioned in my original message, personally, I wouldn't want this product. However, I think it would be _excellent_ for the newbie, like those who are always asking me questions about Windows. I don't think that more stuff makes things harder, but it can be intimidating to the newbie. Perhaps a wise idea, if SuSE ever offered something like this, is to make an easy migration path to SuSE Personal or Professional editions. That way when the newbie realizes all he is missing, he can upgrade. Perhaps to top it off, SuSE could throw in a $5 coupon good for SuSE Personal edition for when the newbie is ready to jump. -Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
On Saturday 28 April 2001 19:55, Timothy R.Butler wrote:
Ok, but I'd include Netscape 4.7 because there are still too many websites that Konqueror can't handle. For example, the intellicast website has regional and metro radar loops that Konqueror can't handle. The chat room on Universal Thread is currently beyond Konqueror. Also, the mail part of Netscape may be all the mail and news an ex-win newbie might need.
Yeah, I suppose that wouldn't hurt. Netscape could be tucked into the Internet tools menu in KDE (incase it was needed), the main difference on the desktop being that I would make sure Konqueror was the browser linked to on the desktop. Konqueror 2.1.x is quite good, and I suspect by 2.2 it will have very few points where it is beat by Netscape.
I'm with you, though. Konqueror is my prefered browser for every site except the UniversalThread. I can read the topography on the regional radars and identify Lincoln's location even if the city or higways don't show up.
How about WinSu or SuSEWin for a name?
I like it. "Windows Plus" would be good too, but I'm afraid that might give Microsoft lawyers a field day. :-)
Personally, though, I like the fact that SuSE packs all those apps onto the CD set. I further like the fact that they adjust them to load into the menus (or unload). It's part of what makes SuSE sooooo goooood!>
Yeah, I agree. As I mentioned in my original message, personally, I wouldn't want this product. However, I think it would be _excellent_ for the newbie, like those who are always asking me questions about Windows. I don't think that more stuff makes things harder, but it can be intimidating to the newbie. Perhaps a wise idea, if SuSE ever offered something like this, is to make an easy migration path to SuSE Personal or Professional editions. That way when the newbie realizes all he is missing, he can upgrade. Perhaps to top it off, SuSE could throw in a $5 coupon good for SuSE Personal edition for when the newbie is ready to jump.
You have some marketing genes beginning to flower!
-Tim
On Sunday 29 April 2001 02:24, you wrote:
Hi everyone, Yes, I've advocated a 1 cd version of SuSE before, but this idea is different. Infact, this idea is for a version of SuSE _I_wouldn't_want_. Intrigued?
Yes! This is something that I would *very much* like to possess: A tool to help free people from Winworld, and in the process free myself from having to deal with M$tuff when people's window breaks...
- A few things SuSE could develop: A special multimedia tutorial for newbies, a Windows TrueType font importer (that automatically mounts the Windows drive, finds c:\windows or c:\winnt, copies those fonts, and then makes fonts.dir and fonts.scale), and finally information on SuSE Personal and Profession for the newbie to upgrade to when they are ready.
To get this going, I would imagine that a capability to import mail/adressbooks from a windows system would help... (in the vein of the above: find windows-partition, locate mail/adr-book, import) not as simple as it sounds, I know, but still... Also dual-boot should be *simple* to set up. (unless, of course, what we want is for people to abandon M$ completely ?) Which leads to: some kind of partition management would be needed...
- Elimite the X11 setup step. Unless the hardware can not be autodetected, this page shouldn't show up in SuSEdesk.
Right!
- Elimate all of the Misc. hardware setup page, except bringing up a page to enter the phone number of an ISP. This page could have a button that said "Advanced: Setup DSL or Cable Modem Service." Other thing such as file and printer sharing could be taken care by creating a simple little "Home Networking Setup Tool", that would attempt to make samba setup as easy as smb networking setup is in Windows ME.
Definitely: make the whole network (modem/DSL/Samba) -stuffs department as easy as possible. Firewalling/NAT is a must, though. And setting that up ought to be simple, so that people will use it! Preferrably some graphic utility that makes for an easy initial setup, but later allows for a more finegrained control of stuff...
3.) KISL. Keep it simple looking...
more good ideas
Also in the Look Dept., I would cover up the boot messages at startup with a picture of Tux or Geeko and the name "SuSEdesk" plastered on there. In smaller print, there could be the words SuSE Linux is Starting up..." and a percentage bar so the newbie knows it is actually working while this screen is shown.
You're probably right about this, although I remember from booting my first Linux-install, watching in fascination (and a little disbelief) the machine actually *telling* me *exactly* what was going on during the boot! ;-D While I agree that a lot of people probably don't give a sh*t about all that, I still believe that showing system-messages at bootup is a good thing: 1: It conveys a sense of "real" computing. 2: It helps "debugging" 3: This is open-source: Showing people boot messages, helps convey the sense that your computer doesn't hide anything from you...(?) So I would suggest: a: Put the boot messages in a window (about 1/6 of the screensize, in the lower right-hand corner) on the startup-splash-screen b: Make "Show boot-messages" optional
4.) Finally, KICS. Keep it cheap stupid. I think I'd price this software between $25-$35. The price would be close to that of Personal Edition, but even though it would lack some of the Personal Edition stuff, I think it would do well - because it was simple.
Yes, and:
Perhaps a wise idea, if SuSE ever offered something like this, is to make an easy migration path to SuSE Personal or Professional editions
My .02$ Jon Clausen
Yes! This is something that I would *very much* like to possess: A tool to help free people from Winworld, and in the process free myself from having to deal with M$tuff when people's window breaks...
Thank-you. Exactly what I was thinking. :-)
- A few things SuSE could develop: A special multimedia tutorial for newbies, a Windows TrueType font importer (that automatically mounts the Windows drive, finds c:\windows or c:\winnt, copies those fonts, and then makes fonts.dir and fonts.scale), and finally information on SuSE Personal and Profession for the newbie to upgrade to when they are ready.
To get this going, I would imagine that a capability to import mail/adressbooks from a windows system would help... (in the vein of the above: find windows-partition, locate mail/adr-book, import) not as simple as it sounds, I know, but still...
That'd be neat, and I'd bet it wouldn't be too hard - YaST2 already figure out which drive is windows so that it could be mounted. Simply make it mount it, search the standard spots MS places WAB (Windows Address Book), and then run a modified Kmailcvt to convert the e-mail and address book to something usable in Linux. Perhaps importing accounts settings from Outlook Express would be good too.
Also dual-boot should be *simple* to set up. (unless, of course, what we want is for people to abandon M$ completely ?)
Well, I doubt most people will abandon Windows all together no matter what. There are still things (like MS Publisher in my case) that aren't available in Linux.
Which leads to: some kind of partition management would be needed...
See my reply to David and Dallam.
- Elimate all of the Misc. hardware setup page, except bringing up a page to enter the phone number of an ISP. This page could have a button that said "Advanced: Setup DSL or Cable Modem Service." Other thing such as file and printer sharing could be taken care by creating a simple little "Home Networking Setup Tool", that would attempt to make samba setup as easy as smb networking setup is in Windows ME.
Definitely: make the whole network (modem/DSL/Samba) -stuffs department as easy as possible.
Right. I mean really, if the user has a NIC, YaST2 could automatically run DHCP to see if there was a DSL or Cable modem connection that it could detect and setup. And modem setup could be really easy - you just ask the user what the phone number of their ISP is.
Firewalling/NAT is a must, though. And setting that up ought to be simple, so that people will use it! Preferrably some graphic utility that makes for an easy initial setup, but later allows for a more finegrained control of stuff...
I'm pretty sure that RedHat 7.1 automatically sets up a firewall, SuSE could do something similar (really this would be a good thing in all versions of SuSE).
You're probably right about this, although I remember from booting my first Linux-install, watching in fascination (and a little disbelief) the machine actually *telling* me *exactly* what was going on during the boot! ;-D While I agree that a lot of people probably don't give a sh*t about all that, I still believe that showing system-messages at bootup is a good thing:
1: It conveys a sense of "real" computing.
2: It helps "debugging"
3: This is open-source: Showing people boot messages, helps convey the sense that your computer doesn't hide anything from you...(?)
So I would suggest:
a: Put the boot messages in a window (about 1/6 of the screensize, in the lower right-hand corner) on the startup-splash-screen
Yeah. You know, Caldera did a superb job of this (I think) in the copy of Linux Technology Preview I tried. It displayed all of the steps that needed to be done in a little graphical startup screen, and then checked them off, IIRC. It was pretty nifty, and looked "friendlier" than the standard bootup messages.
b: Make "Show boot-messages" optional
Definately. Personally, I think if SuSE developed a tool to cover up the messages, I'd include it with all versions of SuSE, but make it show more details in SuSE Personal and Professional. All versions should have an easy way to turn this off. -Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
participants (3)
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Jerry Kreps -
Jon Clausen -
Timothy R.Butler