[opensuse] Reply-To decision by vote
Hi, would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Yes. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:01 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Kenneth Schneider wrote:
On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:01 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
The users sending twice are much more nasty. I guess you will not find a firmware update for them, but adding the Reply-To line would totally eliminate this problem. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
The users sending twice are much more nasty. I guess you will not find a firmware update for them, but adding the Reply-To line would totally eliminate this problem.
In fact, pine for example can ask you whether to use Reply-To or not. +1 for Eberhard (=the current approach as of writing this email) Jan Engelhardt -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
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On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:01 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
Yes and My vote is the same as Kenneth's +1 - -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://quantumlab.net/pine_privacy_guard/ iD8DBQFE4Po6VtBjDid73eYRAhtcAJ9NfGGsAbgIzVxrWAUFeQmKMDijGwCfQ+jO y6Gk6aZCJXRiO7T1BgOXstE= =vd8q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 August 2006 18:33, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:01 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
Yes and My vote is the same as Kenneth's +1
I to agree with no reply_to, so make that +2 --- Lee --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Am Dienstag, 15. August 2006 00:33 schrieb Boyd Lynn Gerber:
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
Yes and My vote is the same as Kenneth's +1
Me too: list manager should *not* add a reply-to pointing back to the list. The coolest feature would be if each subscriber could choose the way he wants it. But I doubt this is available with any mailing list software around. Greetings from Stuhr hartmut -- Hartmut Meyer, NTS EMEA Partner Relationship Manager SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg T: +49 421 3064385 - M: +49 179 2279480 F: +49 421 3064387 - hartmut.meyer@novell.com ---------------------------------------------------- SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 - Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux
First my disclaimer.... I don't really care one way or the other how the Reply-to is set on the list. It's been set to reply to the person rather than the list for years (on the suse-linux-e list), and I'm kind of used to it... but... I do have some thoughts/observations on this. (and I'll probably need my flame retardant clothing, but... I don't care... some things need to be said here....) [snip]
list manager should *not* add a reply-to pointing back to the list.
I can see the point that everyone raises: 1. There is a pseudo-standard (if you can even call it that) that considers changing the Reply-to to the mailing list as "harmful". 2. People long time subscribers) are used to the SUSE mailing list working this way. 3. _Some_ people are able to use mutt, pine or other text only, Linux/Unix based mail readers to read this list that can handle Reply-to sender and Reply-to list. 4. _Some_ people are using KMail/Evolution that can also handle the Reply-to list 5. A very small number know about the patch for Thunderbird that adds in the Reply-to functionality. OK, that's all fine and dandy, but... the reality is... this list's Reply-to behaviour is causing a lot of problems for people - especially the new Linux users who come here for help. If it wasn't causing problems... no one would be complaining. Can't anyone see that? Or are you all so stuck on this pseudo-standard that you cannot see that it's a problem? (it's only a standard if everyone complies with it... otherwise it's all just hot air... and only a minuscule minority complies with this "standard") 1. There are endless discussions about the Reply-to behaviour and why it's like it is. That's an indication there's a problem. 2. People feel obligated to add signature lines stating.. "Please reply only to the list," or something similar because they are getting the list reply plus the cc to them. This is an indication of a problem. 3. Look through the archives and try.. try to count the number of times someone has felt the need to start out their reply (on list) by saying "Please reply just to the list, I subscribe and get the list post and your cc" or something similar. This is an indication of a problem. 4. How many times have you (or I) offered help to a new user and got an off list reply that was actually intended to be on list? Again... there's a problem. 5. How many times (for those of us who cannot or do not use a list aware mail client) have you accidentally fired off a quick reply.. only to discover you've wither accidentally replied off list, or replied to both the list and the person because you forgot to remove the private address and paste in the SUSE address? I know I've done it countless times... even though I know how this list behaves (and understand why it's this way) . Again... a problem... (human generated, but still a problem). 6. Compare... how often do you feel it necessary to reply off-list to someone vs. replying to the list. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt it necessary to reply off list in 8 years of being subscribed here. But.. the default behaviour is to reply privately... not to the list. Not everyone is ABLE to use mutt, pine, Thunderbird, Kmail, Evolution etc. I use GMail... not because I actually like GMail all that much, but because I can get to my SUSE list mail anywhere then. A lot of people use other OSes, and other mail clients to read this list. Whether they are webclients, Linux, Unix or Windows base is irrelevant... the point is.... they don't do mailing lists. Some of you may like to call that broken... whatever.. point is.. that's the way they work, and they are the more prevalent mail clients. Shouting and pointing fingers and yelling "Your client is broken" and "Get are real email client" isn't helping anyone... at all. Even within these "list aware" mailing clients you have to know that they are list aware... if you click reply-to in KMail in a mail from this list you get the sender.. not the list address. You have to know that you press L or you have to have edited your KMail button bar and manually added a Reply-to-list button. This behaviour is NOT the default... it is well hidden in the clients. Does anyone see a pattern here? There is a problem... it may be that the problem should be fixed at the mail client side... but... what do you think your success rate will be with "demanding" that commercial email clients change to conform to this standard? Basically... zero. Plus you have literally millions of people who are participating in mailing lists, and they are all used to the Reply-to list behaviour... then they stumble on this one... and it's backwards to anything they've seen before. Youcan say that people need to be educated on the correct way a list should be run... well good luck with that... you've got a big job ahead of you. Maybe the standard itself needs to be looked at. If someone sets out a standard for anything, be it mailing list behaviour, or the width of roofing shingles, and the consumer has issues with it or simply ignores it... do you change the consumer? or do you take a second look at your standard? There is a problem here, and there has to be a compromise one way or the other to solve it. Do you compromise and munge the Reply-to header to make things easier for new users and for people who are not using a mail reader that is list aware? Or do you leave it as it is and insist that everyone else is wrong and that they must change? I'm just trying to point out the realities of the situation here.... and I honestly think that the people insisting on the Reply-to to the poster thing should take a small step back and try to look at this issue a little more objectively... and less elitist. Like I said at the start... I don't care one way or the other how the Reply-to is set for this list. If it's set to the way it's always been on the suse-linux-e (which is different to every single other mailing list I'm on) then I'm OK with that. If the choice is made to set the Reply-to to go to the list (like every other mailing list I'm on) then I'm OK with that too. C. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Em Terça, 15 de Agosto de 2006 08:38, o Clayton escreveu:
Even within these "list aware" mailing clients you have to know that they are list aware... if you click reply-to in KMail in a mail from this list you get the sender.. not the list address. You have to know that you press L or you have to have edited your KMail button bar and manually added a Reply-to-list button. This behaviour is NOT the default... it is well hidden in the clients.
I think that's a false statement. At least in KMail here, for as long as I remember, and I haven't changed any configuration, R replies to the author in a private mail or to the list in a list mail. Shift-A is the one to reply to the author, while A replies to all. Munging Reply-To would make reply to author and to all non-functional (both quite helpful, respectively: when you just want to reply privately and when the sender tells that he is not subscribed to the list). Cheers, Ricardo -- So, what's with this guy Gideon, anyway? And why can't he ever remember his Bible? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I can't comment on the other mail clients, but I do take issue with your portrayal of KMail/Kontact... Am Dienstag, 15. August 2006 09:38 schrieb Clayton:
First my disclaimer.... I don't really care one way or the other how the Reply-to is set on the list. It's been set to reply to the person rather than the list for years (on the suse-linux-e list), and I'm kind of used to it... but... I do have some thoughts/observations on this. (and I'll probably need my flame retardant clothing, but... I don't care... some things need to be said here....)
[snip] ... 4. _Some_ people are using KMail/Evolution that can also handle the Reply-to list
But KMail doesn't need it with the default configuration and with the current list settings (using SUSE 10.1). I never got on with Evolution - it feels chunky and child-like rather than a professional application...
OK, that's all fine and dandy, but... the reality is... this list's Reply-to behaviour is causing a lot of problems for people - especially the new Linux users who come here for help. If it wasn't causing problems... no one would be complaining. Can't anyone see that? Or are you all so stuck on this pseudo-standard that you cannot see that it's a problem? (it's only a standard if everyone complies with it... otherwise it's all just hot air... and only a minuscule minority complies with this "standard")
Using KMail (Kontact), the "problem" has passed me right by, the list just works, so I am not too worried what the outcome is, as long as I can continue to hit "Reply To" to reply to the list.
... Even within these "list aware" mailing clients you have to know that they are list aware... if you click reply-to in KMail in a mail from this list you get the sender.. not the list address. You have to know that you press L or you have to have edited your KMail button bar and manually added a Reply-to-list button. This behaviour is NOT the default... it is well hidden in the clients.
I just hit the Reply To button and I got opensuse@opensuse.org as the default address... I've never seen or used a Reply-to-list button, just Reply To and I have never had to customise the Kontact/KMail toolbar. -- David Wright Wright Information Services Europa "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 14. August 2006 23:27 schrieb Kenneth Schneider:
On Mon, 2006-08-14 at 23:01 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
Add another vote to the list for me under Kenneth's suggestion. And I trust you to count Henne -- David Wright Wright Information Services Europa "I got to go figure," the tenant said. "We all got to figure. There's some way to stop this. It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." - The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 14. August 2006 23:27 schrieb Kenneth Schneider:
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
This is the arrogant elite-behaviour which is more than annoying. Same shit as Windows <-> Linux, win <-> mac, Amiga <-> Atari. A new user without knowledge about linux and its mailing program should not read this list or isnt allowed to get help until he has a mailing program what you like? So why you dont filter all mailings written on Outlook, Evolution, pine, KMail older than 1.5 and so on? This list like all other lists from opensuse.org are there to support users. And support is not always the same as education. If someone make a mistake without knowledge he shouldnt be punished. So come all down from your hill down to normal people. You are not greater, because you have the right OS, MUA, Office and so on. You can help to bring others on the "right way", but not in this manner. regards, Jens --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Jens Nixdorf <jens.nixdorf.liste@trackpoint.de> [2006-08-16]:
Am Montag, 14. August 2006 23:27 schrieb Kenneth Schneider:
Yes you are trusted, at least by me. My vote is for the list to _not_ add the reply to. Let the people using a broken client contact the programmers and have them fix the client program.
This is the arrogant elite-behaviour which is more than annoying. Same shit as Windows <-> Linux, win <-> mac, Amiga <-> Atari.
A new user without knowledge about linux and its mailing program should not read this list or isnt allowed to get help until he has a mailing program what you like? So why you dont filter all mailings written on Outlook, Evolution, pine, KMail older than 1.5 and so on?
Well, you overstate. The users can till use the list, just with a _little_ handwork. Since most new users don't write tens of articles in mailinglists each day, this should not be much problem. But: Let's wait what the voting says. Regards, Bernhard -- Jeder dumme Junge kann einen Käfer zertreten. Aber alle Professoren der Welt können keinen herstellen. -- Arthur Schopenhauer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 16. August 2006 17:19 schrieb Bernhard Walle:
Well, you overstate. The users can till use the list, just with a _little_ handwork. Since most new users don't write tens of articles in mailinglists each day, this should not be much problem.
For me its the same like a newspaper with too small fonts. And when the readers complain about, the people from the publishing company only state: "The readers could buy some glasses, so they can read again".
But: Let's wait what the voting says.
That doesnt care me, what cares me is this annoying elite-attitude. All they do is right, and if it isnt, than it doesnt matter. Why 500 people should change their environment, when it can be done by one man? Because its only a dispute between opinions, and this states, that the opinion of the user isnt worth something. regards, Jens --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Monday, August 14, 2006 at 23:01:30, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I will wait until tomorrow 14:00 CEST until i accept votes. Just so anyone can raise objections against this. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On Monday, August 14, 2006 at 23:01:30, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I will wait until tomorrow 14:00 CEST until i accept votes. Just so anyone can raise objections against this.
You should post a standard text then which accepts an X at two clearly named positions, and vote only the standard text replies. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> [08-14-06 17:55]:
I will wait until tomorrow 14:00 CEST until i accept votes. Just so anyone can raise objections against this.
Your decision was based on sound reason and judgement. There is no reason for a vote/poll. But, should you decide to have an election, I vote for no mugging! Leave the list as is. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 15 August 2006 07:54, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
I will wait until tomorrow 14:00 CEST until i accept votes. Just so anyone can raise objections against this.
I vote to leave the list as is - no mugging of the Reply-To -- Regards, Graham Smith --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 August 2006 23:54, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
On Monday, August 14, 2006 at 23:01:30, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I will wait until tomorrow 14:00 CEST until i accept votes. Just so anyone can raise objections against this.
Excuse me, but is there really any point to this? The membership of a mailing list is changing. Are you going to revote every time someone complains and a few other people agree? It is much better for there to be an opensuse policy for all lists and people can accept it or leave. Yes, a democracy can be a wonderful thing but these decisions have to stick around for some long period of time. You can't get anything productive done if you have to revote every time someone complains and others agree. The initial decision was made based on some reasoning, I assume. Not just your personal preference. Is there really a valid reason to consider changing this now? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
[...] would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I think there are several (technical and non-technical) arguments for *not* having a reply-to header, most of them are summarized in the reply-to-harmful document that has already been mentioned here many times. The argument list for having a reply-to header seems to be very short judging from what I've seen here on this list so far, mainly driven by people who don't have or don't use a "list reply" functionality in their MUA. Regardless of all the technical arguments, I don't think it's fair to sacrifice the "list reply" vs. "reply" functionality -- which is very convenient for mutt, kmail or thunderbird (with patch) users; other MUAs might have it as well -- by introducing a global reply-to header. This would render the list-reply vs. reply functionality virtually useless (both replies would then be addressed to the mailing list, leaving no choice for users) only to make life more convenient for people who use a less sophisticated MUA (I avoid the term "broken" here) and are not able or not willing to use this list-reply functionality. This would clearly be a step backwards judging from the percentage of people that use one of the above mentioned MUAs. Having said that, as a logical conclusion I don't understand the reason for a poll as the decision made by Henne was based on the arguments and not on personal preferences. If there is a poll, I vote against the reply-to header. Cheers, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 14 August 2006 16:01, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Leave it as it is now. -- Glenn Holmer (Q-Link: ShadowM) http://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/c64.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Glenn Holmer wrote:
On Monday 14 August 2006 16:01, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Leave it as it is now.
Turn it as it was before. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
My vote would be leave it as is now. The only viable reason to go back would be to give SUSE chance to offer online update and people time to update clients. Going back and forth will produce same amount of discussion as this one. The whole problem is that high percentage of users is affected with inconvenience. Story about broken client programs and advice that users have to complain to developers doesn't help a bit. Regular online update for affected clients can help a lot. I guess that presence of opensuse-test indicate that you plan to have test before release for future changes. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Henne, On Monday 14 August 2006 14:01, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I do not think democracy is the way to handle this, frankly. The standard (-setting body) has spoken. But that said, I vote an emphatic "no" on Reply-To munging.
Henne
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi Henne, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@hennevogel.de> wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Sure. Freundliche Grüße / kind regards Martin Mewes MCSE +M 2003, MCSA +M 2003 -- http://www.mamemu.de/ mamemu - edv-dienstleistungen http://mbox.mewes.tv/ mailboxen zum downloaden --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi Henne, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@hennevogel.de> wrote:
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
I would vote together with Eberhard, because the reply-to-harmful (to my intention) is a little bit outdated. Right now I use Forte Agent under Windows to read this list and I hacked down a little AutoHotKey-Script to answer to Mailinglists, which do not set the reply-to. When I post to lists my intention is, that folks answer to the list and not to me or to the list (with a CC to me). A reply-to-list header makes the list easiert to use for folks which use b0rken MUAs and they should not be punished for that. Sometimes, they do not have the choice or time to switch to something better. The only thing you should take care about is to filter out all those "Out of Office" messages on the list server. Freundliche Grüße / kind regards Martin Mewes MCSE +M 2003, MCSA +M 2003 -- http://www.mamemu.de/ mamemu - edv-dienstleistungen http://mbox.mewes.tv/ mailboxen zum downloaden --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 14. August 2006 23:01 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
It is just fine as it is. (Except of too many discussions about the list instead of about openSuse ;-) ) No matter, how you do it, there will always be "the other half" that don't like your decision, because this issue is purely a matter of taste. Just do what you think is correct and we'll accept it - and ignore those who don't. Thanks for your efforts for the benefit of the community. Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, ok here we go. Entitled to a vote is everyone that was subscribed on the list by 00:01 CEST today. That makes 926 votes. I would like to have at least 10% turnout at the election (92 votes). I will send a mail at 12:00 CEST today that you can answer directly to me. I will count only mails that come from subscribers and are replys to the mail i send that land in my inbox. I will not count votes that go to the list and i will not count the opinions you gave since yesterday. The poll will be open untill Monday August 21 12:00 CEST. You can vote for, against and neutral regarding reply-to to the list. Lets see how good democrats we are :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, In the time between Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:00 CEST and Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:00 CEST 103 out of 926 subscribers (subscribed by Tue, 15 Aug 2006 00:01) voted. The results of this poll are: Vote | Count ----------------------------- Insert Reply-To: | 27 Dont insert Reply-To: | 42 I dont care: | 29 Invalid: | 5 So by majority decision we stay with the current setup without a Reply-To header that points to the list address. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
Op maandag 14 augustus 2006 23:01, schreef Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
would everone be able to live with a majority decision about this matter? Looks like not all people trust me enough to decide this based on the arguments presented. I would do this by mail to me. Do you trust me enough to count votes?
Henne
Yes, no problem. Ben -- Using SUSE Linux 10 with KDE.3.5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (23)
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BandiPat -
Ben -
Bernhard Walle -
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Clayton -
Daniel Bauer -
David Wright -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
Glenn Holmer -
Graham Smith -
Hartmut Meyer -
Henne Vogelsang -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jan Engelhardt -
Jens Nixdorf -
Kenneth Schneider -
Martin Mewes -
Patrick Shanahan -
Rajko M -
Randall R Schulz -
Rebecca Walter -
Ricardo Cruz -
Thomas Hertweck