[opensuse] which spreadsheet program to choose?
I'm using 42.1 with KDE3 as primary OS and DE, with 13.1, 13.2, TW, Mageia, Fedora and more, with Plasma5, KDE4 and TDE, available on other machines. I've been using OS/2 to run Quatro Pro for DOS for over 20 years, but I needed a bit more flexibility for a bug hunt project, more columns on screen at once than a DOS app can manage. I tried KSpread (kde3-koffice-spreadsheet), which just cost me 5 day's work as explained on the opensuse-kde3 list on 2016-02-29 04:01 (UTC-0500). (Archiving seems to be broken at least for -kde3 if not others) I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small. I tried Apache's OpenOffice, but it crashes on startup: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-02/msg01431.html Cloud SS apps like Google's are not an option. The only others I recognize as spreadsheets in YaST are Calligra (KDE?), and Gnumeric (Gnome). Anyone have a spreadsheet to recommend? Maybe I should stick with KOffice, just with other file formats than .sxc? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-02-29 11:50, Felix Miata wrote:
Anyone have a spreadsheet to recommend?
I use LibreOffice. Since it was staroffice. Previously I used Excel. (Previously other things, perhaps Quatro). Anything else are rarities. You have been using Quatro for a very long time. Anything else feels very strange to you, but not to the majority. You simply have to stick to the change and get used to it :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-02-29 11:59 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Anyone have a spreadsheet to recommend?
I use LibreOffice. Since it was staroffice.
SO I never used.
Previously I used Excel.
Being a non-Windows user, I never had reason to expose myselft to it.
(Previously other things, perhaps Quatro).
I started on Lotus 1.2.3 v1.somthing or other, whatever v was current in 1983. Upgraded to 2.x series, probably 2.2. After that with QP4 offering 1-2-3-compatible menu option, for less money than 1-2-3, and without the horrible copy protection nuisance v 1 & 2 had, switching was a no-brainer.
Anything else are rarities.
You have been using Quatro for a very long time. Anything else feels very strange to you, but not to the majority. You simply have to stick to the change and get used to it :-)
1-2-3's macro language, as extended by QP's, was the second, and only, other than English I ever became fluent in. I'm long past learning new languages. QP won't be replaced as long as I can keep eCS booting. My macro collection is huge. As I use it it's entirely pointing-device-free. It just works, and without thinking about it. Whatever I use that can read and write .ods files will simply be auxiliary. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-01 08:36, Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-02-29 11:59 (UTC+0100):
You have been using Quatro for a very long time. Anything else feels very strange to you, but not to the majority. You simply have to stick to the change and get used to it :-)
1-2-3's macro language, as extended by QP's, was the second, and only, other than English I ever became fluent in. I'm long past learning new languages. QP won't be replaced as long as I can keep eCS booting. My macro collection is huge. As I use it it's entirely pointing-device-free. It just works, and without thinking about it. Whatever I use that can read and write .ods files will simply be auxiliary.
Think about it this way: .ods spreadsheets, be it libreoffice, openoffice, or even excel, or any other partly or fully compliant spreadsheet, is the only format that today can be predicted to last for a decade or more. Other spreadsheets are rarities, minority software, that come and go depending on how many supporting devs they get. Thus, if you have to port your complex spreadheets to something else that needs your effort, do it to something with the greatest chance of lasting. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Le 01/03/2016 09:46, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
Thus, if you have to port your complex spreadheets to something else that needs your effort, do it to something with the greatest chance of lasting.
old formats are like old hardware, computers evolve very fast and one have to move archives to new version to be safe. I still have floppies in a drawer, and floppy writer, but It's only as ultimate solution and I can't be sure it will work. But I have usb ones that may work some time more. I had to use last year very old staroffice files, and (from memory) Apache OpenOffice had more import filters than LibreOfice at this moment. Now I tend to save most documents as pdf together with the native format, because at least I hope to be able to see and print them. (better if they are paper printed :-)). Felix do like Quattro (scan the list archives :-)), but he may be the only one. The only real solution for such problem is to *anticipate* them - I my memory, Quattro compressed formats are the most difficult to read (this compression is proprietary, nothing to see with zip or tar). But in *calculation* programs, very often used with formulas and macros, reuse is condemned to fail. I have a lot of HP-41 programs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-41C), and I still have one (for memories, but it still works), buy since then I have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-42S that I use routinely and that can run HP-41 programs, but I do not expect any important use of them... Sale for KDE3... do not expect to use some kde3 config in the near future. It may work, but it's not sure at all. Learning the new is the only way to be prepared. I was puzzled yesterday, making some cleaning on my wiki to find a kde4 trick as old as 2008 (http://dodin.info/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Doc.Kde4) my 2 cents jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/01/2016 12:14 PM, jdd wrote:
I had to use last year very old staroffice files, and (from memory) Apache OpenOffice had more import filters than LibreOfice at this moment. ........
- for text stuff Abiword has good filters for old formats - as for once-popular spreadsheets , the DOS version of "Multiplan" was useful to me for 20 years ................ regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-01 11:14, jdd wrote:
Le 01/03/2016 09:46, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I had to use last year very old staroffice files, and (from memory) Apache OpenOffice had more import filters than LibreOfice at this moment. Now I tend to save most documents as pdf together with the native format, because at least I hope to be able to see and print them. (better if they are paper printed :-)).
I think there is an archival project somewhere that also stores the software with the data. When file format changes, they store a converter.
Felix do like Quattro (scan the list archives :-)), but he may be the only one.
I know :-) Time ago I used a spreadsheet that came as sample code with Turbo Pascal, later Borland Pascal, and also with Borland C.
The only real solution for such problem is to *anticipate* them - I my memory, Quattro compressed formats are the most difficult to read (this compression is proprietary, nothing to see with zip or tar).
Then perhaps Felix has to make sure they are not compressed.
But in *calculation* programs, very often used with formulas and macros, reuse is condemned to fail.
They have to be left as text, then manually convert. That's why I recommend using .ODS, being a standard it has more chances of long term survival. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 02/29/2016 12:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small. ..............
LibreOffice: for me it works with : Tools ---> Options ---> View :: Scaling 112% Screen font antialiasing from +45 pixels ........ regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/29/2016 01:03 PM, ellanios82 wrote:
On 02/29/2016 12:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small. ..............
LibreOffice: for me it works with :
Tools ---> Options ---> View ::
Scaling 112%
Screen font antialiasing from +45 pixels
........
& about tiny text : - at the Bottom-Right of LibreOffice Calc , there is a Sliding Bar to Increase or Decrease the Font Size ......... regards -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
ellanios82 composed on 2016-02-29 13:37 (UTC+0200):
ellanios82 wrote:
Felix Miata wrote:
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small. ..............
LibreOffice: for me it works with :
Tools ---> Options ---> View ::
Scaling 112%
Screen font antialiasing from +45 pixels
I had no idea any FOSS app existed that had UI configurability of this nature. The effect is wierd. To make the main toolbar same sized as everything that conforms to the DE (which AFAICT is everything I've ever used except anything to do with Java, or with remote desktop connected to Windows), I used 125%, which matches my DE, 120 DPI, 125% of 96. However, adjusting the UI has a wild effect on SS content, making it about 3X as big as expected.
........
& about tiny text :
- at the Bottom-Right of LibreOffice Calc , there is a Sliding Bar to Increase or Decrease the Font Size
Formatting the cell content to the smallest selectable size, 6, only cut the content to about 2X the size expected. Without that slider, I can't imagine how I could use LO, but as is, 77% currently, it seems to be workable. A final determination of that may depend on how printing eventually works out. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-01 08:48, Felix Miata wrote:
Formatting the cell content to the smallest selectable size, 6, only cut the content to about 2X the size expected. Without that slider, I can't imagine how I could use LO, but as is, 77% currently, it seems to be workable. A final determination of that may depend on how printing eventually works out.
Why do you think I bought the biggest (in centimetres) screen I could afford, einn? ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-03-01 09:49 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Formatting the cell content to the smallest selectable size, 6, only cut the content to about 2X the size expected. Without that slider, I can't imagine how I could use LO, but as is, 77% currently, it seems to be workable. A final determination of that may depend on how printing eventually works out.
Why do you think I bought the biggest (in centimetres) screen I could afford, einn? ;-)
Still dunno. Some people buy bigger screen to fit more stuff, others to make stuff bigger, others a mixture of both. Still others don't have room for big as they wish they had. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/29/2016 12:50 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's
did you try to type "spreadsheet" in yast? with Leap, I have calligra, gnumeric abnd even sc - I see also trinity-koffice-kspread that may work with kde3. Making some sorting in my wiki, I found a page about kde4 dated December 2008!! wow didn't remember it was so old :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
I'm using 42.1 with KDE3 as primary OS and DE, with 13.1, 13.2, TW, Mageia, Fedora and more, with Plasma5, KDE4 and TDE, available on other machines.
I've been using OS/2 to run Quatro Pro for DOS for over 20 years, but I needed a bit more flexibility for a bug hunt project, more columns on screen at once than a DOS app can manage. I tried KSpread (kde3-koffice-spreadsheet), which just cost me 5 day's work as explained on the opensuse-kde3 list on 2016-02-29 04:01 (UTC-0500). (Archiving seems to be broken at least for -kde3 if not others)
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small.
I tried Apache's OpenOffice, but it crashes on startup: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-02/msg01431.html
Cloud SS apps like Google's are not an option.
The only others I recognize as spreadsheets in YaST are Calligra (KDE?), and Gnumeric (Gnome).
Anyone have a spreadsheet to recommend?
I would have said LibreOffice Calc, it has served my business well for over ten years, but as you've already discarded that one .... -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.8°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata írta:
I'm using 42.1 with KDE3 as primary OS and DE, with 13.1, 13.2, TW, Mageia, Fedora and more, with Plasma5, KDE4 and TDE, available on other machines.
I've been using OS/2 to run Quatro Pro for DOS for over 20 years, but I needed a bit more flexibility for a bug hunt project, more columns on screen at once than a DOS app can manage. I tried KSpread (kde3-koffice-spreadsheet), which just cost me 5 day's work as explained on the opensuse-kde3 list on 2016-02-29 04:01 (UTC-0500). (Archiving seems to be broken at least for -kde3 if not others)
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small.
Have you installed libreoffice-kde package? It may help fix libreoffice UI issues. It is for kde3 even the name doesn't contain kde3. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-02-29 17:58, Istvan Gabor wrote:
Have you installed libreoffice-kde package?
It requires a version of the KDE pattern installed. For instance, in 13.1, to install LO 5, you need "kde current" repo. Forget kde3 for that. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-02-29 19:35 (UTC+0100):
Istvan Gabor wrote:
Have you installed libreoffice-kde package?
I have 0 post-KDE-3.5.10.x KDE packages installed here.
It requires a version of the KDE pattern installed. For instance, in 13.1, to install LO 5, you need "kde current" repo. Forget kde3 for that.
# zypper in libreoffice-kde4 Retrieving repository... Resolving package dependencies... The following 9 NEW packages are going to be installed: libQtWebKit4 libattica0_4 libdbusmenu-qt2 libkde4 libkdecore4 libksuseinstall1 libqca2 libqt4-qt3support libreoffice-kde4 9 new packages to install. Overall download size: 18.5 MiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 76.2 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/? shows all options] (y): n Anyone have any idea if answering yes would actually accomplish anything useful in an otherwise KDE3-only environment? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-01 09:14, Felix Miata wrote:
Anyone have any idea if answering yes would actually accomplish anything useful in an otherwise KDE3-only environment?
I have my doubts, because you would rather need a libreoffice-kde3 package, which I don't know if it exists. You can only try, write down what was installed, and if not good, remove. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-03-01 09:55 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Anyone have any idea if answering yes would actually accomplish anything useful in an otherwise KDE3-only environment?
I have my doubts, because you would rather need a libreoffice-kde3 package, which I don't know if it exists.
Maybe a better question would have been, what does the existing kde4 package accomplish on a KDE4 or Plasma5 system that didn't already have it?
You can only try, write down what was installed, and if not good, remove.
Only - not. I cut the tail off of /var/log/zypp/history, deleted the unwanted characters, added ' \' to ends of all but last lines, prepended 'zypper rm \', and fed the result to the shell. Maybe not faster, but minimal chance for typos. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:50:12 Felix Miata wrote:
I'm using 42.1 with KDE3 as primary OS and DE, with 13.1, 13.2, TW, Mageia, Fedora and more, with Plasma5, KDE4 and TDE, available on other machines.
I've been using OS/2 to run Quatro Pro for DOS for over 20 years, but I needed a bit more flexibility for a bug hunt project, more columns on screen at once than a DOS app can manage. I tried KSpread (kde3-koffice-spreadsheet), which just cost me 5 day's work as explained on the opensuse-kde3 list on 2016-02-29 04:01 (UTC-0500). (Archiving seems to be broken at least for -kde3 if not others)
I tried installing LibreOffice, but it was unusable, ignoring the DE's DPI, resulting in insanely tiny text in both UI and content, and icons worse than uselessly small.
I tried Apache's OpenOffice, but it crashes on startup: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2016-02/msg01431.html
Cloud SS apps like Google's are not an option.
The only others I recognize as spreadsheets in YaST are Calligra (KDE?), and Gnumeric (Gnome).
Anyone have a spreadsheet to recommend?
Maybe I should stick with KOffice, just with other file formats than .sxc?
Sorry to say this, but having used Lotus 1-2-3, Star/Open/LibreOffice, Kcalc and probably one other on OS/2 that I can't remember the name of, I keep coming back to MS Excel. It is the only M$ product that I truly like and find useful, helpful and intuitive. It doesn't hurt that I've also learned to automate it a fair bit using VBA, in ways that I've never been able to achieve as easily nor as effectively in other spreadsheets. I have run it under both Wine (using CrossOver Linux) and a Virtualbox VM. It's usable either way (but VirtualBox has fewer surprises). Yeah, I know it's probably not *the* answer you wanted, but it is *an* answer, and one that works for me. :) Cheers, Rodney. -- ============================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au ============================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Carlos E. R. -
ellanios82 -
Felix Miata -
Istvan Gabor -
jdd -
Per Jessen -
Rodney Baker