Anton Aylward wrote:
Linda Walsh said the following on 05/08/2013 03:27 AM:
but one I didn't think Anton would take personally.
Anton takes very little personally .... a few days later.
Linda: you report a lot of technical problems with your own systems to the list. I must admit it makes me wonder why you have these problems and and others, not least of all myself, don't. ==== 1) I boot from my hard disk 2) I have a separate /usr partition
Therefore work to disable booting from your hard disk directly cause problems on my end as I undo / workaround such. Work to move files into /usr and leave dangling symlinks on the root partition that point to nothing when /usr is not mounted also cause problems. When I have asked why not move those utils into /bin or /sbin, and put the symlinks in /usr (you'd get the same benefits from /usr based programs' perspectives, I'm pointed ignored. Some people have been promising that it is going to get worse -- nothing will work if you don't boot from a ramdisk or have a separate root. The former likely because the keys to access allow secure boot will be kept on the initrd, so if you boot from the HD, you don't get secure boot -- which may be the only option supported in a few years. I'm not a typical end-user -- I'm a computer scientist -- who likes to tinker in every aspect of their computer and run comparison benchmarks and tune it to run as fast and optimally as possible. I often try out new computing theories and practices if I can on my home network. Having that freedom curtailed to give corporations the keys to my system so they can charge me for apps is not how I want my computers to be taken. Some of the above may sound paranoid, but it's nothing that MS and others haven't already stated that they want to do.
I re-read your problems with later versions of T'Bird. I've been happily using it since Mozilla calved it off as its own product. As I've commented before, I use fetchmail to download onto a 'server' and access via IMAP from whatever workstation I'm at (which might even be over a ssh tunnel). Yes, I could configure all or specific folders to download from the IMAP server to a local cache but I've chose not to use that configuration option.
---- I configure the folders on the IMAP server -- i.e. the filter happens at delivery time, before IMAP sees them. I have over active mailboxes (ones that may have new mail) and near 500 total.
Note: Its a configuration option.
--- A default configuration option that is difficult to turn off since they really wanted it on -- so they could give you the "one-index' feature of all your email.
Yes T'Bird in IMAP mode will download the header/envelope information. (And cache it for the next startup) How else can it display that information - subject, date, from, status - and the number of messages in the folders? Please don't confuse downloading headers with downloading body.
---- That's not a problem. It's the "download for offline use" setting that went from default 'off' to default 'on' for all folders in 3.x.
Does T'Bird download the body? Damn right it does! How else can you read the message! Does it cache that? Apparently so: move up and down the list when you have 3-panel set up or go to another folder then come back. No delay in viewing a message you've already viewed. Does the cache expire? Of course it does. Can you configure it? Of course you can:
user_pref("browser.cache.disk.capacity", 358400); user_pref("browser.cache.disk.smart_size_cached_value", 204800);
---- Um... thats for the browser that is built into to Tbird (but not usually enabled). That is not for the email messages. You cannot expire the message bodies in your local cache without also deleting them out of your IMAP store (see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746350). As it was, the wording was unclear, and I wanted them to make them separate -- but they just fixed the wording. The only way you can recover that space is to manually delete the cache files out of your local profile. When they get over a few 100MB (that just for index and **read** messages (I don't read every message that comes in on every list -- not to mention many of my folders are archive folders that won't be read in unless I go search them -- but IMAP can search them without mozilla downloading them. That's not real well supported by Tbird though. I'm not confusing the few-hundred meg index and stash of recent messages with my entire IMAP account of 5-6GB -- when 3.x started downloading that it was pretty obvious running amok.
There are other cache settings too - see the documentation.
--- See all my bug reports in the mozilla DB... I've been using firefox/netscape for longer than I've been using suse (or linux for that manner)...it ran on Irix when I was at SGI. At this point the problem isn't so much that I can't turn off the downloading -- but if I do my favorite extension (the one that shows the hyperlinked/clickable conversation graph (that can be exported in in SVG!), that I'd lose -- because the author switched to using tbird's indexing service in 3.x -- which only works on the locally downloaded content in the message bodies. If you turn that off, you lose that feature.. He used to do his own indexing and sqlite db storage -- that's the version I still have that works in 2.x -- which is no longer supported in 3.x. So while I could turn off the full account download -- I'd still lose that extension. bummer. There are other reasons...momementum... busy plate...etc...
Problems? Yes I have lots of them! They all get back to the plugins and extensions, mostly that the developers don't keep up to date.
--- bingo... I'd lose half my extensions on any upgrade.. I have over 100.
So then, increasingly confused as to your reasoning why you are stuck on 2.0.0.24 when so many of us are on 17.x I see you mention that your X isn't fast enough. That's why you're on 2.0.0.24?
You also mentioned the footprint of T'Bird - presumably some of that is caching, but you might be confusing that with indexing. That was where I ROTFLMAO'd. Heck, we've just been discussing 1TB /tmp files and you're worried about T'Bird caching headers!
--- Um... nope...its' not the few hundred meg of headers.. it's the 6G of bodies... that is stored in my ***ROAMING PROFILE***... the first time it happened, I didn't know that Tbird had downloaded the whole thing. It took 49 minutes to logout & sync the workstation over a local 1Gb link. I can wait for a few-several minutes -- but anything over 10-15 minutes gets excessive.
But then you mentioned
I'm hoping to get 'X' to run faster
Well it that's your problem then it isn't really a T'Bird problem.
Well ... yes and no. My old Tbird runs locally so no 'X'. If 'X' ran at the same speed as the local window manager, I'd be a happy camper. That's gonna be a long haul... The problem is per-packet latency. Since I regularly get over 300MB/s in large transfers -- fastest has been a little over 700, but not reliably. Max theoretical would be 2.5GB/s. That's getting closer to bus speeds of a few-several years ago. That's why I have hopes of getting my linux desktop to run in near real-time I've even seen GLX/3d stuff run in real time -- where the remote end uses my local Nvidia 590's 3d acceleration -- that's pretty snazzy. But that also doesn't work reliable... though right now, not much does with my libraries being a bit whacked out due to the systemd repairs and workarounds. ---- I'm running it remotely. That's the problem. If I wanted to sit in the back bedroom in front of a server that has no good graphics card (best suse will default to is 1024x768)... Much higher than that and you only get 16-bit color. It has no slots for high power graphics cards -- it wasn't designed to support one. Thus I'm trying to get speed out of *remote* X.
Yes, I know this is an old crippled box I'm describing. That's my point. Yes, I know that at my local Best Buy I can get a an Acer or Toshiba or, heavens forbid!, a HP with a 4-core CPU, maybe as much as 6-8G of memory and a 650G to 1TB disk for about $350[1]. Assuming I get that far into the store and haven't been persuaded to spend that on a camera, phone or tablet or large screen TV ...
---- um... remote? I use the more friendly windows desktop as a primary desktop -- the server in the back room is my "disk space" and network access. The windows box is low on disk space, high on graphics.
Just for the heck, I took a USB stick in and booted on LiveLinux on one of these machines - no not at Best Buy, at another place where the salesdroids were more tolerant. MY GOD IS 12.3 FAST ON A 4-CORE! Well OK, that high end video helped.
So why do I use the stuff from the Closet Of Anxieties? 'Cos its there; 'cos I like running Linux on stuff that can't run Windows just to prove a point; 'cos its more of a challenge than running it on high-end modern stuff.
My last server was 10 years old when it died... it was a 2 cpu running 1Gh processors with celeron sized caches (256k). I used linux on it because it gave good server performance for it's age -- but wouldn't have if I'd put windows on it. Was only a 32-bit machine -- had 2GB of main memory. Am familiar with making do with old stuff... after 10 years, it gave up the ghost...
The bottom line is that I'm not very sympathetic to your reasons for sticking with 2.0.0.24.
um....remote? ;-)... Cheers! & thanks for the uplifting understanding...??? ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org