On 30/05/18 01:44, sam(a)fnet.cx wrote:
On 05/29/2018 04:59 AM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I guess that makes the bottom line rather clear,
at least form my
perspective. You HOPE that those that have the occasional laps of reason
or those that exhibit tendencies of the issues described above will not
subscribe to the new mailing list.
Good luck with that.
I agree. The problem will just flood into the new mailing list if
everybody moved over to that. The problem with the "me too's",
off-topic posts, rants, etc., isn't precipitated by the name of the
mailing list. It's the users that are subscribed to the list. So the
protuberant issue here is regarding moderation; the new mailing list
would be moderated differently because it technically would have new
rules and/or more heavily enforced ones than those found here, whereas
adding new rules or enforcing old ones to this age-old list
could/would upset users. Not a bad tactic, but read between the lines.
The goal seems to be to shut down this list completely at some point,
but so far I haven't seen one email sent on the new opensuse-support
list and I don't think this whole idea is going to pan out.
If there are no subscribers there, the reasoning behind subscribing to
the new list is fairly weak, and the community thus far seems to not
be keen on the idea, then I see no reason to subscribe to the new
list. So to recap, the issue at hand is moderation and user behaviour.
A few random thoughts from me on this subject -- with no offence to
anyone intended, if anyone finds any offence that is.
The way I see things is that there is a claim expressed many times over
recent time that Developers no longer have a presence in this list
(opensuse@) because they are tired of reading posts which are offtopic,
'metoos', 'rants', et al. and for this reason the case is being made
the creation of a new mail list -- the opensuse-support@ -- which,
miraculously, will solve that problem of not having Developers present
in the mail list. The new list will also -- probably -- have Moderators
who will keep the unwashed under control thus making the world habitable
But the question has to be asked: why have specialised mail list like
KDE, Factory, Artwork, Kernel, etc been created? Aren't these supposed
to be where specific and topical questions are asked and where the
Developers are meant to hang out?
The complaint about 'opensuse@''s efficacy is perhaps a misconceived
trumped-up complaint because some people have misinterpreted what the
list is supposed to be about and have given a purpose to the list which
is only the creation of their own minds.
Look at how this list is/has been described in the list of Mail Lists
available to be subscribed by users:
opensuse English Generic questions and User to User support for
all the openSUSE distributions
Note the "User to User support" in particular and the "Generic
questions" in general.
No mention of Developer participation.
"User to User support". I have a problem, imaginary or real, and I want
to ask if anyone else has experienced this problem. Or I may have come
across a problem about which I want to warn other users. However, in
many cases rather than being given a response which may give me the
answer or may simply advise me that so far no solution is known by THE
USERS PARTICIPATING in this list, I am told not to ask the question in
this list but to submit a bug report because, eg, Developers don't
frequent this list. I want to know _beforehand_ if my imaginary/real
problem is already known about _before_ I take the step of submitting a
bug report -- but I am discouraged to do this and I may be deemed to be
contributing to the "misuse" of this mail list and will probably even
get a 'wack across the ears' by the 'Mail List Police'.
So, we already have a list which is "User to User" support "for all
openSUSE distributions". Why then create another list with the same
purpose in mind?
"..The times have been
That, when the brains were out,
the man would die,.."
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner(a)opensuse.org