On 30/05/18 01:44, sam@fnet.cx wrote:
On 05/29/2018 04:59 AM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I guess that makes the bottom line rather clear, at least form my perspective. You HOPE that those that have the occasional laps of reason or those that exhibit tendencies of the issues described above will not subscribe to the new mailing list.
Good luck with that.
Later, Robert
I agree. The problem will just flood into the new mailing list if everybody moved over to that. The problem with the "me too's", off-topic posts, rants, etc., isn't precipitated by the name of the mailing list. It's the users that are subscribed to the list. So the protuberant issue here is regarding moderation; the new mailing list would be moderated differently because it technically would have new rules and/or more heavily enforced ones than those found here, whereas adding new rules or enforcing old ones to this age-old list could/would upset users. Not a bad tactic, but read between the lines. The goal seems to be to shut down this list completely at some point, but so far I haven't seen one email sent on the new opensuse-support list and I don't think this whole idea is going to pan out.
If there are no subscribers there, the reasoning behind subscribing to the new list is fairly weak, and the community thus far seems to not be keen on the idea, then I see no reason to subscribe to the new list. So to recap, the issue at hand is moderation and user behaviour.
A few random thoughts from me on this subject -- with no offence to anyone intended, if anyone finds any offence that is. The way I see things is that there is a claim expressed many times over recent time that Developers no longer have a presence in this list (opensuse@) because they are tired of reading posts which are offtopic, 'metoos', 'rants', et al. and for this reason the case is being made for the creation of a new mail list -- the opensuse-support@ -- which, miraculously, will solve that problem of not having Developers present in the mail list. The new list will also -- probably -- have Moderators who will keep the unwashed under control thus making the world habitable again. But the question has to be asked: why have specialised mail list like KDE, Factory, Artwork, Kernel, etc been created? Aren't these supposed to be where specific and topical questions are asked and where the Developers are meant to hang out? The complaint about 'opensuse@''s efficacy is perhaps a misconceived trumped-up complaint because some people have misinterpreted what the list is supposed to be about and have given a purpose to the list which is only the creation of their own minds. Look at how this list is/has been described in the list of Mail Lists available to be subscribed by users: <quote> opensuse English Generic questions and User to User support for all the openSUSE distributions </quote> Note the "User to User support" in particular and the "Generic questions" in general. No mention of Developer participation. "User to User support". I have a problem, imaginary or real, and I want to ask if anyone else has experienced this problem. Or I may have come across a problem about which I want to warn other users. However, in many cases rather than being given a response which may give me the answer or may simply advise me that so far no solution is known by THE USERS PARTICIPATING in this list, I am told not to ask the question in this list but to submit a bug report because, eg, Developers don't frequent this list. I want to know _beforehand_ if my imaginary/real problem is already known about _before_ I take the step of submitting a bug report -- but I am discouraged to do this and I may be deemed to be contributing to the "misuse" of this mail list and will probably even get a 'wack across the ears' by the 'Mail List Police'. So, we already have a list which is "User to User" support "for all openSUSE distributions". Why then create another list with the same purpose in mind? BC -- "..The times have been That, when the brains were out, the man would die,.." "Macbeth", Shakespeare -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org