El vie, 29-06-2007 a las 20:37 +0200, Sandy Drobic escribió:
Hudibras wrote:
El vie, 29-06-2007 a las 18:15 +0200, Sandy Drobic escribió:
Hudibras wrote:
El vie, 29-06-2007 a las 15:06 +0200, Sandy Drobic escribió:
Hudibras wrote:
> What problem are you trying to solve? If the question is "can Postfix do > that?" the answer is "yes, it can, and a lot more, too". > If the question is "Which MTA should I use?" The answer is "Use the one > you are able to administer and debug.". I do prefer, no doubt about it, qmail. Check www.shupp.org, and install in a twinkle the best mail server (imho, of course). And after, enjoy with a master piece of software. What features were the deciding factor for you to choose Qmail? I don't have any experience with Qmail myself, I chose Postfix because it has a great support community, a very active development and the documentation is extensive and accurate. Features like DSN and Policy Server/Milters also became very important. Do as you like. It's only my advice.
But after many years testing nearly every mail server, I don't change qmail for anything in this world. It's simply a master piece of software. People who knows me also know my opinion about qmail, and I think this way from 1998-1999, when I tested the first time. It's great that you like Qmail, but this doesn't give my any information to compare it to Postfix.
I've no time (maybe several hours...) to explain each other capabilities. But this is not the forum to that. I only said if you would like a great (the best one, imho) MTA, qmail would be the first to begin with.
I've got the same problem (not enough time), so I am very careful when the project will consume hundreds of hours (it does take that much time to really understand another program of that scale).
The only thing I can tell you is that I spent many more time learning qmail than Sendmail or Postfix.
Ideally it would be great if someone had worked with both programs and could compare how much effort it took to reach the same result.
i've worked with both and more programs, as I said before.
That should give you a good basis to remember some circumstances where something was very easy to configure in one product and much more difficult in another. That is what I am looking for, the gotchas that you encounter when you start to learn a program.
Sorry but I don't understand much of your words... sorry! My English comprehension is bad sometimes...
The first (beta) version of Postfix was released 1999, the first stable release 1.0 appeared 2001, so I guess you didn't test Postfix at that time.
Well, I've said I began to test MTAs in 1998-1999, but I refered to it in general, not considering Postfix o Exaim or Sendmail dates of release. That is not important. I assure you I have used Postfix and I missed mails, because of smtp deliveries if some cases. However that thing never happened with qmail, independently the type of delivery, domain existance or not, etc.
That is also what I am looking for. Can you remember under what circumstances it happened and how long ago (which Postfix version)?
Uf... I'll try to explain as good as possible in my bad English. As smtp local server, I tried to send mails and none of them reached its target; qmail does: it sends any mail I want it does, even with "fake" accounts, with my regular MUA. I always say the same story: I never missed any piece of mail with qmail; with others do.
All features you like in a mail server, qmail does have them. So, why don't you try and if not of your taste, install any other. I can assure you my qmail is really the same I've got from 2002. And I sleep peacefully while qmail works. That's not good, I know, but if you don't want be ever watching a mail server, install qmail and forget yourself. I have heard the same being said about Postfix. I still wonder how anyone can just install a mailserver and then forget about it. I am always finetuning the configuration to adapt to new spammer tricks. agreed, it would probably work without finetuning, but the rate of rejected spam would probably drop a lot.
Of course. Postfix is a very very good MTA. I agree with you. But... qmail is better. It's completely modular, and... several of today Postfix capabilities are "copied" from qmail, like Maildir boxes... and more.
Grin! If Postfix has (copied) all those features you like I don't need to learn Qmail. (^-^)
Ha, ha, ha... sharp!
Wietse himself said, that he rebuild in Postfix a lot of features he liked in Sendmail. One of the bigger implementations of new features was the milter protocol that was used only for Sendmail before. That gives Postfix admins access to the large base of milter applications. He even got a price from Sendmail for his implementation.
I'not an opposite to Sendmail or Postfix; but I say I prefer qmail over all others.
A big German ISP tested this, they simply stopped finetuning their configuration and noticed a considerable drop in their rejection rate.
I've heard more things like this about qmail... So, that's not important to me. For instance, several of the most important Domain Registration Servers use qmail! I hope you know what I mean (my English is not as good as my mother tongue).
Qmail is one of the standard MTAs, no question.
Sure!
If I had to choose another MTA other than Postfix I would probably switch to Exim. Postfix and Exim are two great mail servers, but I still do prefer qmail, because (and it's only my opinion) is much better in most cases. qmail version is the same from 1998, and it does not need any more; but there are many people around helping and making "add-ons", making it more powerful and never, never, never has a security hole or anything like these. However, sendmail or postfix really have holes... or is that not true? At least for Postfix it is not true.
Yes. I saw time ago a severe security fix for Postfix... qmail doesn't have ANY ONE.
Uh, which one? The only one I can remember was a TLS problem for Postfix 2.1. At that time Postfix itself had no own TLS implementation, so the support was added with a 3rd party patch. That was also origin of the security bug.
Sorry, I can't remember: my memory is not as good as for remembering every issue with all programs I don't use... But I can recall several holes.
Sendmail had some problems with security some years ago. In the last years I they tightened their code a lot. Though I do remember that Sendmail had a remote exploitable bug last year.
Yes. Sendmail is already history...
Sendmail is still the most widely implemented MTA, so I do not agree, even if I myself don't like Sendmail. The few times I had to deal with it were a nightmare. Of course the main reason was, that I didn't knew (and still don't know) enough about Sendmail.
Yes, but this is due to certain terror to change things. Sometimes people is considerably "traditional" or "conservative". I'm sure I'm not: if someone can advice me to test another thing, anything and of any kind, I'm willing to try it, and if I can see it's better or it likes me more, I have it. I'm not afraid to try new things.
One good hint how secure Postfix is: Borderware has chosen Postfix as the MTA of their Firewall.
Ok. I'm pleased for that. Sorry, but I don't know Borderware, so, it's not a very relevant notice.
One of the better known firewall distributors.
Ooppss... sorry. I'm not concerned with hard & soft products... my job is nothing to do with computers from 2002, so I've forgotten nearly everything about it. Even other distributors or computer related things I knew have been forgotten too..
So decide and have a try qmail, and you'll not be disappointed. So far, this does not yet give me enough encouragement to invest the many month of work to dig into Qmail as I did with Postfix. Before I change I have to know if the annoyances in Postfix are worth dealing with the annoyances of another MTA. Every piece of software has some drawbacks, the question is rather if I am willing to live with it or if I can circumvent the annoyance.
Sorry. It's your choice.
No need to be sorry. I happen to like Postfix.
Ok. Great for you!
Since I know Postfix quite well, so I know how to work around the annoyances of Postfix, but that is not the case with Qmail (or Exim or Sendmail).
Really. But this happens to everything.
That is exactly my point. I like to learn new things, but I also like to know what I am about to start, especially when I decide to learn a new MTA. A good start is important. What mailinglist/website would you recommend for a QMail beginner?
First, to install qmail/vpopmail, www.shupp.org/toaster And then, if you like, there are many mailinglist and websites to find for information. But I assure you if you install qmail, you won't need anything, because you will forget you have a MTA installed and working.
Where are good sites with accurate documentations and how-tos? I just saw http://cr.yp.to/qmail.html, which had some nice information, though it seemed a bit old (they were talking about the situation in 2001).
Yes, this is the "strange" Dan Bernstein site: the beginning of all, but shupp.org wil be definitive for you. It's easier than done. Other, www.inter7.com, and much more. I must say pop mail server was the only thing makes me use qmail, because the typical "popper" is definitely bad (in my opinion, anyway). After that, all my servers intallations, after having sendmail and postfix and deleted it them, all customers phoned and saying surprised: "Why mail goes now so faster and so good, have you changed anything?" And I don't lie. Every time I did, people praised the new service. And I can say they have been many times. Cheers, Alejandro.
-- Sandy
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