-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2017-11-15 at 04:43 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Wednesday, 2017-11-15 at 06:28 +0300, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
15.11.2017 01:33, David C. Rankin пишет:
On 11/14/2017 4:05 AM, nicholas cunliffe wrote:
Most problems and those currently being 'experienced right now' are due to user ignorance - specifically: not monitoring space, not knowing commands to monitor space, not knowing how to deal with snapshots, not knowing how or implementing default settings.
To be blunt and non-politically correct, that's just BS.
When YAST is supposed to be the wizard that guides new users through setup providing defaults for just about everything and hiding the details behind "Expert" partitioning buttons, it is malarkey, and an ill placed ad hominem to blame the user for not monitoring what is mysteriously ballooning storage behind the scenes -- that heretofore has never been a problem before btrfs became the default filesystem.
To be candid, you can blame the user for failing to monitor disk space when the cause of the problem is what the user put on the disk filling it up, but when the problem is the result of YAST defaults that repeatedly lead to just this type of problem, blaming the user is just an attempt to avoid responsibility for an imprudent choice of a default filesystem.
If we are not going to have YAST make good default choices for the new users, then we certainly should not blame the user or call them "ignorant" when foreseeable problems based on YAST defaults occur.
What should YaST defaults be? You apparently are in possession of silver bullet, why keep it secret? I am sure developers will immediately implement your suggestion.
You are correct, but David also has a point, but not nicely drawn :-)
The thing is, we can not blame the fault on "user ignorance" if a tool such as YAST did not use good defaults for a plain user. We, as users, expect YAST to make life easy for us, without needing to be experts.
Or in other words: if a filesystem requires the user to become knowledgeable in "arcane settings and tools", then it is not a good default choice.
On the other hand, I have seen plain users with little knowledge recover from a system failure due to bad user management just by reverting a snapshot, unaided - just by chancing on the appropiate doc. Sure btrfs has very nice features. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAloLuR4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Xu0ACcDo5sgdnA6nKygt6XFRovxtfm eBMAniYvF8SIiMjMaGmHioMOWREw6oC+ =i0Za -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----