On 08/02/2010 04:43 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:
1. I don't know why this guy posted the above message to "KDE3 on 11.3 ??" thread instead of "So tried KDE4".
2. OK, probably I remembered incorrectly to what's quoted above before the 'became'. I am sorry for that. But it doesn't make the fact I started with untrue: When KDE4 was introduced as a replacement for KDE3 in openSUSE 11.2 it was not stable, it was full of bugs, etc. That time I tried it and experimented with it and got rid of it. According to the many messages on this list KDE4 is still not stable and still full of bugs and still dozens of features are missing that are available in KDE3.
For me 'adequate replacement' means that it is as functional, as stable, as bug-free as the replaced one. The question remains: was KDE4 an adequate replacement for KDE3 whe openSUSE 11.2 was introduced? Based on these requirements, not. Telling people that KDE4 was an adequate replacement was misleading.
Istvan
From what I can tell, kde4 will never be an adequate replacement for kde3. It is still basically a big beta project where what it will look like in a year is completely unknown. And, before you start sniveling and whining that kde4 isn't a beta project, it is an official release, blah, blah blather... Go re-read: [opensuse] Where have categories gone in Address Book? (posted Today on this list) kde4 is a wonderful, highly aggressive experiment in "how cool can we make a desktop look", and granted, so far the answer has been "really damn cool.' However, the Achilles' heel for kde4, has always been, and will always be that it did away with much of the hard-won triumphs of kde3's philosophy of "doing all with the absolute minimum number of key-strokes or mouse-clicks"... true computing efficiency. As just one in a myriad of examples, throwing out the konqueror backend for the woefully inadequate dolphin backend and building forward on that has sealed the fate for file management in kde4. It is... a glass castle built on clay feet. Yes, I know progress is not without growing pains, but from a management standpoint, and from a maintaining desktop market share during a major version transition standpoint, kde4 has embraced every kiss of death it could imaginably get its lips around. I commend all the developers for their very hard work and they should be rightfully proud of all that has been learned about desktop look and appearance, job well done. But, kde4 has incorporated so much of the "just get it done" code over the past 2 years that absent a serious re-write there are issues that just can't be cured. As we now sit 2 years and 2 months into kde4 after its first "Official, non-beta release -- 4.04 with openSuSE 11.0", I have come to the conclusion that the fundamentals of the desktop are so seriously flawed that I do not think it will ever recover as "The Desktop for Linux". I mean "My God, konqueror still won't even open up looking the same way it did when I last shut it down after 'save desktop profile -> file management' with a detailed view selected." If kde is ever to recover as "The Linux Desktop" what I suspect will have to happen is that another re-write will have to take place where all the 'glitz and glamor' is stipped off the desktop and the code taken back to the point where true computing efficiency and logic can be recovered across the board incorporating all the fundamentals that were correct with kde before the eye-candy craze took over and also incorporating all the new and good techniques that have developed as part of kde4 to date -- as a cohesive integrated functional core before adding the glitz and glamor back on top. Every good coding book I've ever read has always stressed the fundamental of keeping function and interface separate. Though largely aimed at portability, that lesson is every bit as true as a requirement for creating good solid desktop function -- period. Once the strip-back and integration re-write is done and there is a solid functional core where simple things like column widths, etc. are no longer subject to the shortcomings of a desktop toolkit, then kdeX can re-emerge as a desktop that can capture the place in the Linux desktop market kde3 held. As we still have kde3 with us today, the smartest way to move forward is to continue kde3 while the kde4 experiment grinds forward and revisit the question of "what was it that made kde3 such an embraced desktop" and take the answer to that question and build kde(Next) forward from there. In sum, I don't think there is enough duct-tape and bailing wire in Texas to make the current approach of "patch and tinker and pray" ever result in a leading desktop for linux. This isn't a slam on kde4, this is my honest opinion of where kde4 is, and what it will take to get it where it needs to be. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org