On Monday 29 November 2004 12:26 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Lee,
On Sunday 28 November 2004 20:33, BandiPat wrote:
...
Your points are valid Kevin, but ultimately only weak excuses.3
Far from true. Kevin's point is exactly correct. Programming a framework for tax submissions is straightforward. The real issue is essentially one of content. In this case, the content is a codification of the ever-changing tax laws. And given the critical nature of these laws, one wants a professional to supply that content. Furthermore, encoding the content must be done with knowledge of the software framework as well as of the pertinent laws. I'm not sure which commands higher price, but offhand (and as an experienced programmer), I'd say the tax accountant / lawyer costs more. Whether they're worth more, is a separate question, but these days, I think the tax guy commands a higher fee than the technologist.
All in all, it's far from trivial to encode tax laws. Ultimately, I would not expect this kind of software / content to be supplied free (be it "free lunch" or "free speech").
Randall, You also make some good points, but again excuses only, as many of the things you point out are not hidden items that only accountants/lawyers are privy too. Anyone wanting or needing the laws, restrictions, or necessary information has access to it by law. You guys seem to want to make something relatively simple into something more complex. That's not to say it can't get complex, but it's certainly not rocket science! Consider that probably 50% of the people doing taxes only need basic tax knowledge, since their taxes don't require corporation type calculations. I think most of you guys are looking at the "big" picture while forgetting why these type programs exist in the first place. Who would you consider to be the prime purchaser of these programs? Certainly not accountants or tax lawyers, but the average joe home user. That's not to say they shouldn't get every deduction they can too, but what they need is easily accessible. As an "experienced" programmer, you more than most should know it doesn't take programming experience to accomplish the things needed to do this type of setup. Also, you seem to be under the misconception that accountants & tax lawyers use these off the shelf programs. They don't, nor would you want them to, if they were doing your taxes. But then average joe user doesn't have the need or money to normally pay the price for a full time accounting company or tax lawyer, do they? --------------------
Anyone that chooses to create their own setup in a spreadsheet or database doesn't do it for the forms, but to get their taxes done electronically without all the pencil & paper work. I think the only reason noone has done a program yet is because nobody has taken the time or had the interest to do it.
Nope. It requires expert knowledge of the tax laws more than it does knowledge of spreadsheet, database or GUI programming.
************** Again, I have to disagree with you because it doesn't. Knowledge yes, but expert knowledge, no. Any person with working knowledge of such programs and the desire to create could do them. Plus, if more extensive knowledge of the tax laws are needed, they have access to those or can take one of the many classes offered by the very people many pay to do their taxes! [...] ------------------------
Randall Schulz ===========
Certainly there is more that can be added to this debate and since it is getting very off topic, I request we move it to the OT list or meet on IRC to discuss it further. thanks, Lee