Well, Went to the Linux Expo yesterday. Got a lot of what I needed there yesterday. If you get Forte running right it pretty impressive. Not to mention that the community edition which is totally free seemed to include a lot more (even had tomcat)than what Borland charges about $100 to buy. Also the guys at Borland didn't seem to concerned about their customers. I felt like a product myself. I don't know , maybe it's just me but it seems too contrary to the reasons I started using LINUX ; indeed why LINUX was started. I felt I was received much h better at SUN. Anyway, got my IDE development tools working better than I had hoped. I do prefer to do most of my coding in an simple editor but need IDE's for the bigger components. Thanks for all the response on this thread. Robert Napolitano, napi5@optonline.net