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Pascal Bleser wrote:
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SOTL wrote: ...
OpenSuSE is a down load hackers platform put together by technical professional for technical professional and as such does not contain all programs necessary to run all computers.
Err... could you elaborate on that ? What are you talking about ? Proprietary drivers ?
The SuSE teams knows the difference in content better than I do so ask them for exact details of the difference but as I understand it Open SuSE contains only open source programs. SuSE on the other hand contains all of OpenSuSE and non open source programs so is thus more complete. If the email I received from the SuSE development team is correct the win modem driver or what ever you want to call it is not ope source which means that it can not be included in OpenSuSE since OpenSuSE does not pay royalty which SuSE does.
As far as "programs" are concerned, SUSE Linux (it's still called "SUSE Linux" - "openSUSE is the community apparel around it) ships orders of magnitude more applications than windows.
Really, what are you actually talking about ?
SuSE is a completely different world. It is commercial software sold to
Eh.. well... SUSE is totally *not* a different world. If you mean SLED (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop), it isn't all that different, given that SLED 10 is based on SUSE Linux 10.1.
It is that different IF you require non open source programs to make your computer run fully and correctly and you are a non teckie.
technical illiterates including very senior corporate management which make decisions of the type the new corporate computer system will be Windows because I purchased one of those damn SuSE box distribution sets and it crashed my computer causing me to have to take my computer to a computer shop which took 2 weeks which cost the company 1 million US dollars and almost got me fired. Fortunately I was able to convene the Senior VP that my computer crashed cause my dog pissed on it. I am damn mad and I will fire anyone who even suggest that trash is usable trash. Not in my division. Get Microsoft and get it installed correctly because it work and that Linux trash does not.
... and your point is ? That managers are clueless ? many are. That IT is a weird business made up of more cluelessness and sheer stupidity than any other type of job ? totally.
This is the part I find so difficult. SuSE supports OpenSuSE and provides much of the technical support for one and only one reason and that is that OpenSuSE is the basic building block of SuSE. SuSE is sold for money. It is a commercial product. SuSE operates like any other business. No profit then they go out of business which means SuSE no longer supports OpenSuSE. SuSE sells it product to people who are technical incompetent; people called senior management. If senior management does not like something they do not buy it. Just like you will not buy a car you do not like. If you do not buy it then that manufacturer does not make a profit off it sales which means that some non profit work that manufacturer supports will not be supported.
But if it's just to start a (SUSE) Linux vs windows flamewar, then this isn't the right place.
Normal teckie response. Total inability to understand that the kernel is one thing and that SuSE development is completely different. That SuSE is in business to make money. It is only by confronting the failures acknowledging their existence that a procedure for improvement may be developed.
cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
As far as I can ascertain the major problem is SuSE and OpenSuSE’s development process. Take a look at kernel development at http://www.kernel.org/ One can easily see that the process is continuous. _________ The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is: *2.6.17.7 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/patch-2.6.17.7.bz2>* 2006-07-25 03:40 UTC F <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.17.7.tar.bz2> V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Fpatch-2.6.17.7.bz2> VI <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Fincr%2Fpatch-2.6.17.6-7.bz2> C <http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux%2Fkernel%2Fgit%2Fstable%2Flinux-2.6.17.y.git;a=summary> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ChangeLog-2.6.17.7> The latest prepatch <http://kernel.org/patchtypes/pre.html> for the stable Linux kernel tree is: *2.6.18-rc3 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/patch-2.6.18-rc3.bz2>* 2006-07-30 06:31 UTC V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Ftesting%2Fpatch-2.6.18-rc3.bz2> VI <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Ftesting%2Fincr%2Fpatch-2.6.18-rc2-rc3.bz2> C <http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux%2Fkernel%2Fgit%2Ftorvalds%2Flinux-2.6.git;a=summary> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/testing/ChangeLog-2.6.18-rc3> The latest snapshot <http://kernel.org/patchtypes/snapshot.html> for the stable Linux kernel tree is: *2.6.18-rc3-git2 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/snapshots/patch-2.6.18-rc3-git2.bz2>* 2006-08-02 19:01 UTC V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.6%2Fsnapshots%2Fpatch-2.6.18-rc3-git2.bz2> C <http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux%2Fkernel%2Fgit%2Ftorvalds%2Flinux-2.6.git;a=summary> The latest 2.4 version of the Linux kernel is: *2.4.32 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/patch-2.4.32.bz2>* 2005-11-16 19:13 UTC F <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.32.tar.bz2> V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.4%2Fpatch-2.4.32.bz2> VI <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.4%2Ftesting%2Fincr%2Fpatch-2.4.32-rc3-final.bz2> C <http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux%2Fkernel%2Fgit%2Fmarcelo%2Flinux-2.4.git;a=summary> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/ChangeLog-2.4.32> The latest prepatch <http://kernel.org/patchtypes/pre.html> for the 2.4 Linux kernel tree is: *2.4.33-rc3 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/testing/patch-2.4.33-rc3.bz2>* 2006-07-28 23:21 UTC V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.4%2Ftesting%2Fpatch-2.4.33-rc3.bz2> VI <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.4%2Ftesting%2Fincr%2Fpatch-2.4.33-rc2-rc3.bz2> C <http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux%2Fkernel%2Fgit%2Fmarcelo%2Flinux-2.4.git;a=summary> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/testing/patch-2.4.33.log> The latest 2.2 version of the Linux kernel is: *2.2.26 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/patch-2.2.26.bz2>* 2004-02-25 00:28 UTC F <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/linux-2.2.26.tar.bz2> V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.2%2Fpatch-2.2.26.bz2> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/ChangeLog-2.2.26> The latest prepatch <http://kernel.org/patchtypes/pre.html> for the 2.2 Linux kernel tree is: *2.2.27-rc2 <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/testing/patch-2.2.27-rc2.bz2>* 2005-01-12 23:55 UTC V <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.2%2Ftesting%2Fpatch-2.2.27-rc2.bz2> VI <http://www.kernel.org/diff/diffview.cgi?file=%2Fpub%2Flinux%2Fkernel%2Fv2.2%2Ftesting%2Fincr%2Fpatch-2.2.27-rc1-rc2.bz2> Changelog <http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/testing/patch-2.2.27.log> _________ The 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 kernels are still being improved. Now compare that to the OpenSuSE / SuSE process. Each level is really a one time assembly. It is not a continuous process just a one time process. __________ Now take a look at Debian’s process: http://www.debian.org/releases/ ____________ Debian always has at least three releases in active maintenance: “stable”, “testing” and “unstable”. stable <http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/> The “stable” distribution contains the latest officially released distribution of Debian. This is the production release of Debian, the one which we primarily recommend using. The current “stable” distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 3.1r2, codenamed /sarge/. It was released on April 19th, 2006. testing <http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/> The “testing” distribution contains packages that haven't been accepted into a “stable” release yet, but they are in the queue for that. The main advantage of using this distribution is that it has more recent versions of software. See the Debian FAQ <http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/> for more information on what is “testing” <http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-testing> and how it becomes “stable” <http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-frozen>. The current “testing” distribution is /etch/. unstable <http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/> The “unstable” distribution is where active development of Debian occurs. Generally, this distribution is run by developers and those who like to live on the edge. The “unstable” distribution is called /sid/. __________ Now compare that to OpenSuSE / SuSE where there is only two level., assembly and assembled. Next take a look at Mandriva and Mandriva Club http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome ___________ Welcome to Mandriva Club ! Mandriva Club is a place where members can download the latest Mandriva Linux distributions including commercial applications and plugins, ATI and Nvidia drivers, Club specific distributions, can gain access to a collaborative knowledge base <http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/KB/> related to Mandriva Linux use, can gain access to commercial RPMs, can get special discount on Mandriva Store <http://store.mandriva.com>, can chat <http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/Chat/> with Mandriva team, and much more... <http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/Main/Faq> *Join the Mandriva Club, download now and take the most of your Mandriva Linux system! <http://www1.mandrivalinux.com/en/club/>** * *Enterprise, corporate or public sector users*: please visit the *Mandriva Corporate Club <http://corporateclub.mandriva.com>* to gain access to Mandriva's industry leading, 5 year supported enterprise solutions such as: Mandriva Corporate Server 3, Mandriva Corporate Desktop, Mandriva HPC Cluster, and Mandriva Multi Network Firewall 2. ___________ Historically I was opposed to a subscription Linux but how is one to account for the necessity of inclusion of non open source programs such as win modem programs otherwise. Maybe some combination of a these developments along the lines of: 1. Both OpenSuSE and SuSE in a continuous process like kernel development 2. OpenSuSE (all open source) with 2 levels: development and testing 3. SuSE which takes the tested version of OpenSuSE adds in non open source programs such as win modems with access to SuSE download on a subscription bases. Just some thoughts but if something is not done soon SuSE is going to be just another toasty critter distribution. Another thought you people can debate this is you have interest without me as I have already express all of my ideas on the subject. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org