Pete Connolly wrote:
Washington Irving wrote:
Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
On Wednesday 21 May 2008 04:35, Jim Henderson wrote:
What about the idea of somehow flagging KDE4 as beta?
http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/11.0-Beta3Plus/yast2-004-desktop.png
It says:
"KDE 4.0 is the most recent evolution of KDE. It comes with many new KDE technologies, but it is less mature than the other desktops."
But on the KDE home page, it says that KDE 4 will be beta this summer.
Which means, right now, in their assessment (and who would know better?), KDE 4 is currently alpha.
And considering all of the missing functionality, especially when it comes to configurability, KDE 4 is definitely alpha.
STOP insulting our intelligence with all of these ridiculous lies about how KDE 4 is a desktop which can be relied on to work in all conditions and environments when the SUSE 11.0 release comes out...because it still isn't anywhere close.
Every time one of you tries to tell us this lie, all it does is wear away the trust we have in you.
(Other screen shots at http://www.suse.de/~sh/yast2/11.0-Beta3Plus/ )
CU
Right then Aaron, show us how you want it.
Just say something like this: [ ] Gnome [ ] KDE 3 (stable and full-featured) [ ] KDE 4 (not yet Beta, but usable. Will be frequently updated as new development comes out. Not yet recommended for business environment.) [ ] No desktop or other desktop. It's not like it's that DIFFICULT to just be honest with the new users...and with the current state of Vista, this could be many people's FIRST brush with linux...and if SUSE doesn't get it right...it might be their ONLY ... they're NOT looking to exchange one huge set of problems they are kind of used to and somewhat understand, for another huge set of problems which they don't understand in the slightest. Give them fair warning. I don't word it as "alpha" above becuase, while many people know what "beta-testing" is, far fewer know what "alpha" means...and with other terms, like "alpha-dog" and "alpha-male", alpha could be grossly misinterpreted. I think the simple wording above gives a fair, honest assessment of the what should be expected by the user who doesn't know any better, and doesn't have time to drop everything and go research the differences between KDE 3 and KDE 4 so that he can finish doing his installation, and then be satisfied that they have the sort of installation (fuddy-duddy but reliable, or bleeding-edge, a bit unstable, and still missing parts).
Give us wording, or screenshots, of how you think it should be and let the rest of us judge what _you_ would put into the installer for 11.0.
I've read the arguments for and against 4.x and I believe it might be too early to have 4.x shipped as an install option, but you seem to be the most vocal and argumentative opposer of KDE 4.x in any form on this list. Personally, I'll play with it and wait for it to be ready, since that's what I love doing and 4.x gives me a whole new playground. You, however, seem to think the world will end unless you have your way.
I don't oppose KDE 4 ... I oppose misleading a new user into believing KDE 4 is something which it has not yet become -- which is to say, a complete, stable desktop. I'll be more than happy to abandon KDE 3 once KDE 4 is ready. But right now...this is like after a chef in a restaurant has pour a bunch of batter into a cake pan, a server grabbing the unbaked pan, throwing a bunch of icing on it, and then taking it out to the dining room and attempting to serve it as if it were a fully baked product.
So, what do you suggest should be the actual workflow for the installation of 11.0, bearing in mind that KDE 4.x _must_ be there for people like me?
I don't have a problem with putting it as an option. My problem is these goofballs at SUSE insisting on trying to fool the unwary into thinking that KDE 4 is farther along in the development process than what it really is.
Don't blow this - you've got a chance to prove yourself. What should the words on the screen actually say for the installation regarding desktop choices? Be prepared to defend your wording on many fronts.
It's not *that* difficult. The only reason this is difficult is because the people at SuSE have been trying to put lipstick on pig. I'm not saying that the KDE 4 project is a pig...but any alpha-state software is, by definition (or else it wouldn't be called alpha, it would be called release).
Cheers
Pete
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