Hi Quentin, Il giorno lun, 30/03/2009 alle 08.13 +1200, Quentin Jackson ha scritto:

Well if that isn't the type of answer we were expecting. No offence Andreas, but considering the issue (which I too have experienced to the point of feeling like the bug is actually blamed on me) perhaps we could take a more pro-active approach and send out an encouraging email to all the bug fixers to stop this from happening in the future, rather than pushing it back on the community whom are (in the bigger picture) powerless to do anything without someone like you picking it up for them. There really are a lot of people who try and try to help but just end up being alienated one way or another.

Well, probably I'm not the right guy to take Novell people defence, considering I am very critical on how things are managed. But I think in this case Andreas is right. People at Novell is overloaded, and the community as we know it today is very demanding, but gives back quite a limited number of contributions in my opinion. The reasons are different, some completely rely on Novell's side, some completely rely on the community side, and some are shared. But if we want things to work, we should stop playing at ping-pong with responsibilities and start to use a problem/solution approach. If the solution becomes "Novell has to ..." in most of the cases, something doesn't work.

I think a major part of Timian's point is that it got to 1-2 years old and why did that happen?! I'm sure you'll agree, If it was going to be a won't fix, that should have ideally happened before it got to 1-2 years old. Perhaps if you asked someone to review all the won'tfix resolutions you'd turn up quite a few examples for yourself instead of waiting for some member of the community whom is already alienated to turn something up for you?

Well, what Andreas asked is normal. And btw, all the provided examples except one affect obsolete products. Probably it's not worth to spend time on them. Don't you agree? The delay is easily explained: no time, lot of work, limited community help...

It's my opinion that this is one of the things that's really letting an otherwise awesome distro down. But based on all the feedback myself (and many others) have had, I'm not expecting it to change until someone like yourself decides to stick their boot in and organise it.

I don't think a solution coming entirely from inside Novell is what we want. Ideally it should be a decision of both Novell and the community, but first we need to build a wider community, and the process becomes iterative: the more you improve "work conditions" and ease of contribution, the more you active contributors grow. At the moment I see different levels of difficulties to overcome, but before discussing of everything else, of the most disparate features and initiatives, let's start the focus discussion. Because what openSUSE lacks most is a goal, a _common_and_realistic_ goal. I said that many times, and I keep repeating it: openSUSE needs a direction to follow, whatever it is, because at the moment we do not have one. So I'm looking forward to know when the focus discussion started by Zonker and AJ on the wiki ( http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Distribution_Focus ) will actually take place. Regards, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org