installation report
yesterday I installed KDE-LiveCD-MS7 on my Laptop(FSC Amilo Pro 2030) and took notes what I liked (will usually not be seen on bugzilla): new Live-CD->USB http://en.opensuse.org/Live_USB_stick#openSUSE_11.2 partition manager UI allows "which partitions to use for install" - first time I did not have to use expert mode when there was already something on the HDD. function keys for brightness/volume working out-of-the-box even in Live-system default sound scheme suspend-to-* working in installed system === problems (did not check bugzilla for those yet): minor: syslinux suggested 800x600 resolution but internal TFT has 1024x768 KDE-live-system: S2RAM fails to resume (black screen, does not shutdown on power-button) ; works after installation minor: CD-tray was ejected after install from USB keyboard was back at us after install (I set german in syslinux) ; yast2 language helped prepare_preload on ext4 printed messages to console "/var/tmp/kdecache/...data has tail _and_ normal blocks" wontfix: b43 (WLAN) firmware missing -> install_bcm43xx_firmware helps NetworkManager failed to assign ipv4 addr/nameserver for eth0 after cable hotplug (only ipv6 from radvd) NetworkManager-0.7.1_git20090811-1.2.i586: system standstill after ethernet cable disconnect Segmentation fault in yast2 online-update-configuration (Register.ycp) => advanced/register => configure now => +Hardware Profile => Details|Next no automatic updates? has useless link to novell.com? ; re-tested after update to factory. still there. yast2 online repositories links to 11.1 factory seamonkey-2.0b2-1.3 /usr/lib/seamonkey/seamonkey-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/seamonkey/seamonkey-bin: undefined symbol: gdk_x11_window_get_drawable_impl -> zypper install gtk2 helped, so it was a missing dependency. seamonkey -mail can not save this mail to IMAP sent folder for some reason also already had two more system crashes, one of which needed a manual fsck.ext4 run afterwards. No backtrace available since I was in X11 and syslog had not caught it. === on my Phenom X4 + GeForce 9400 GT: Live-CD: LCD screen loosing signal randomly (approx 2/minute) overall there are still plenty of issues to be solved. I will probably retest with a later pre-release and/or test MS7 on my other laptop. You are welcome to confirm and file the above issues in bugzilla. Ciao Bernhard M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Bernhard Wiedemann wrote:
wontfix: b43 (WLAN) firmware missing -> install_bcm43xx_firmware helps
Just for clarity: This is a "cannot fix" rather than a "won't fix". The copyright on the firmware files is held by Broadcom and they will not give permission to distribute them. The script /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware is the most we can do. It downloads driver files that Broadcom had to supply when they were caught in a GPL violation, then extracts the firmware from those files. There is a group in Italy that is working on open-source firmware for the Broadcom chips. Once that package is available, then this whole issue will be avoided. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
I'm curious - if we can sense and determine the Broadcom chip during system setup, why then can we not add the install_bcm43xx_firmware to the setup, or to "first-boot"? Sort of like we do with the MS fonts? Of course, since we ARE dealing with network drivers, there's always the "chicken and egg" problem. Crap. Jonathon M. Robison Infrastructure Architect, Research Ford Motor Company -----Original Message----- From: Larry Finger [mailto:larry.finger@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Larry Finger Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:05 PM To: Bernhard Wiedemann Cc: opensuse-testing@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-testing] installation report Bernhard Wiedemann wrote:
wontfix: b43 (WLAN) firmware missing -> install_bcm43xx_firmware helps
Just for clarity: This is a "cannot fix" rather than a "won't fix". The copyright on the firmware files is held by Broadcom and they will not give permission to distribute them. The script /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware is the most we can do. It downloads driver files that Broadcom had to supply when they were caught in a GPL violation, then extracts the firmware from those files. There is a group in Italy that is working on open-source firmware for the Broadcom chips. Once that package is available, then this whole issue will be avoided. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Hi, because that's not what you need for all the cards. Broadcom provides the Linux STA drivers ( http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php ), which offer excellent functionality on the supported models and are packaged in Packman. Ubuntu tool automatically detects if you need them, and retrieves them from a repository. It has been discussed in the past if it was possible to have them included or provided in some other way than unofficial repositories on openSUSE, and the answer was that it is not possible due to legal concerns (violation of the kernel licence according to what Novell kernel developers said). I do not know how Ubuntu manages the problem, but Dell provides the same drivers in binary form on the Dell Mini 9 and on other laptops sold with ubuntu and the broadcom cards, for example. It would be interesting to have a deeper insight in what/how they do it. From the licence in the drivers it seems to it *can* be redistributed if the conditions written there are respected. Best, A. Il giorno lun, 28/09/2009 alle 06.28 -0400, Robison, Jonathon (M.) ha scritto:
I'm curious - if we can sense and determine the Broadcom chip during system setup, why then can we not add the install_bcm43xx_firmware to the setup, or to "first-boot"? Sort of like we do with the MS fonts?
Of course, since we ARE dealing with network drivers, there's always the "chicken and egg" problem. Crap.
Jonathon M. Robison Infrastructure Architect, Research Ford Motor Company
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Finger [mailto:larry.finger@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Larry Finger Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:05 PM To: Bernhard Wiedemann Cc: opensuse-testing@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-testing] installation report
Bernhard Wiedemann wrote:
wontfix: b43 (WLAN) firmware missing -> install_bcm43xx_firmware helps
Just for clarity: This is a "cannot fix" rather than a "won't fix". The copyright on the firmware files is held by Broadcom and they will not give permission to distribute them. The script /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware is the most we can do. It downloads driver files that Broadcom had to supply when they were caught in a GPL violation, then extracts the firmware from those files.
There is a group in Italy that is working on open-source firmware for the Broadcom chips. Once that package is available, then this whole issue will be avoided.
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Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Hi,
because that's not what you need for all the cards. Broadcom provides the Linux STA drivers ( http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php ), which offer excellent functionality on the supported models and are packaged in Packman.
I have heard mixed reports on the excellence of the functionality. Some users claim that the driver is constantly dropping out. Their usage of their own MAC layer, which gets limited testing, is likely the reason.
Ubuntu tool automatically detects if you need them, and retrieves them from a repository. It has been discussed in the past if it was possible to have them included or provided in some other way than unofficial repositories on openSUSE, and the answer was that it is not possible due to legal concerns (violation of the kernel licence according to what Novell kernel developers said).
The Broadcom wl driver contains a binary blob that is not under GPL license. As a result, it cannot be included in openSUSE. In addition, it taints the kernel, which precludes its usage by many of us who routinely test kernels.
I do not know how Ubuntu manages the problem, but Dell provides the same drivers in binary form on the Dell Mini 9 and on other laptops sold with ubuntu and the broadcom cards, for example. It would be interesting to have a deeper insight in what/how they do it. From the licence in the drivers it seems to it *can* be redistributed if the conditions written there are respected.
Yes, the wl driver can be redistributed as long as you are willing to accept their conditions, and the consequences. The open-source driver for BCM43xx devices will always be trying to catch up. From Broadcom's release of a new model, there will be a period of at least two years while the reverse engineering is done and a driver is written. At the moment, I'm working on the specifications for the 802.11n devices while the coders are implementing the specs for low-power 802.11b/g models. Clearly, the wl driver is not optimal, but it is necessary in some instances. My primary goal is to eliminate that need; however, we do need to make it as simple as possible for openSUSE users to get a working wireless driver for their BCM43xx cards. Until the open-source firmware is available, the licensing parameters will require a working Internet connection for any automatic solution, but I would like to see something like Ubuntu's installation script. This code should detect the BCM43xx, determine its identity, and select the appropriate action. If the device is supported by b43/b43legacy, then the firmware should be installed, otherwise the Broadcom wl driver should be installed. Beginners have enough trouble configuring their wireless devices without having to fight to get a working driver loaded. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
The Broadcom wl driver contains a binary blob that is not under GPL license. As a result, it cannot be included in openSUSE. In addition, it taints the kernel, which precludes its usage by many of us who routinely test kernels.
This is the reply I got from Novell developers long ago. I cannot explain, in the light of this how can people like DELL and HP can sell systems with it included. In addition Novell uses the same driver packaged for SLE and hosted by Broadcom itself.
Yes, the wl driver can be redistributed as long as you are willing to accept their conditions, and the consequences.
Consequences? Some kernel developer with a lot of time to waste threating of sueing who distribute the drivers, community people included, as it happened on one openSUSE ML not long ago?
The open-source driver for BCM43xx devices will always be trying to catch up.
Exactly. And that's unfixable without involving the manufacturer, with doubt results, since who opened the driver is not exactly keeping them in good shape (Intel as a first example, both for video and wireless cards).
otherwise the Broadcom wl driver should be installed. Beginners have enough trouble configuring their wireless devices without having to fight to get a working driver loaded.
If it can be done, I'm all for it. After all this discussion happened already at least twice in other places in the past, and openSUSE still has to find a solution. Best, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
The Broadcom wl driver contains a binary blob that is not under GPL license. As a result, it cannot be included in openSUSE. In addition, it taints the kernel, which precludes its usage by many of us who routinely test kernels.
This is the reply I got from Novell developers long ago. I cannot explain, in the light of this how can people like DELL and HP can sell systems with it included. In addition Novell uses the same driver packaged for SLE and hosted by Broadcom itself.
SuSE could have, but openSUSE cannot. That is a decision that was made by Novell - only open-licensed software will be distributed. As long as Dell and HP are willing to support their products, they can include any software that they can license.
Yes, the wl driver can be redistributed as long as you are willing to accept their conditions, and the consequences.
Consequences? Some kernel developer with a lot of time to waste threating of sueing who distribute the drivers, community people included, as it happened on one openSUSE ML not long ago?
I have no idea what developer and issue that you refer to. The consequence that I was thinking about is the tainting of the kernel, which in turn will eliminate the chance of any serious kernel developer from looking at any kernel oops that pops up.
The open-source driver for BCM43xx devices will always be trying to catch up.
Exactly. And that's unfixable without involving the manufacturer, with doubt results, since who opened the driver is not exactly keeping them in good shape (Intel as a first example, both for video and wireless cards).
Broadcom has made their decision. Involving them is not an option.
otherwise the Broadcom wl driver should be installed. Beginners have enough trouble configuring their wireless devices without having to fight to get a working driver loaded.
If it can be done, I'm all for it. After all this discussion happened already at least twice in other places in the past, and openSUSE still has to find a solution.
I need to look at the installation scripts to see what I can do. At least I know which devices b43 supports. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 29 September 2009 18:04:29 Larry Finger wrote:
only open-licensed software will be distributed
There is non-oss repo for software that is not free, so at least there is a place to put miscellaneous packages that contain non free parts, and that is what is done by Ubuntu, and probably few more. Use wire to get system installed and then switch to wireless. (wire included in boxed version :-) ) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
Use wire to get system installed and then switch to wireless. (wire included in boxed version :-) )
Unfortunately, there are a number of users that do not have a wired connection, which is why the stickies in the wireless forum show how to install firmware for b43 when you have to sneakernet from Windows. Fortunately, the standard installation does contain the program b43-fwcutter that strips the firmware from one of Broadcom's drivers. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
True, but let's be clear - the last time I tried that cutter, it wasn't the easiest thing in the world. Mind you, Windows drivers were totally unfamiliar to me at the time, but still . . . perhaps it needs a better wrapper program? Something like, "what partition holds your Windows instance?" and it automagically goes from there and does what it needs to do. Jonathon M. Robison Assoc. Inf. Arch. IT Research, ITI 313-323-9529 PCs == Lego; Macs == Barbies; Linux == a pile of I-beams and a box of nuts and bolts. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Finger [mailto:larry.finger@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Larry Finger Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:10 PM To: Rajko M. Cc: opensuse-testing@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-testing] installation report Rajko M. wrote:
Use wire to get system installed and then switch to wireless. (wire included in boxed version :-) )
Unfortunately, there are a number of users that do not have a wired connection, which is why the stickies in the wireless forum show how to install firmware for b43 when you have to sneakernet from Windows. Fortunately, the standard installation does contain the program b43-fwcutter that strips the firmware from one of Broadcom's drivers. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Robison, Jonathon (M.) wrote:
True, but let's be clear - the last time I tried that cutter, it wasn't the easiest thing in the world. Mind you, Windows drivers were totally unfamiliar to me at the time, but still . . . perhaps it needs a better wrapper program? Something like, "what partition holds your Windows instance?" and it automagically goes from there and does what it needs to do.
That suggestion would work if every system on which openSUSE is being installed also has Windows, and if fwcutter supported every Windows driver for BCM43xx ever distributed. It would be relatively easy for a wrapper program to mount all NTFS or VFAT32 partitions and check for the windows/system32 directory; however, the second part is more difficult. Adding a new driver to b43-fwcutter currently requires manual intervention, and automating the actions would be difficult. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
SuSE could have, but openSUSE cannot. That is a decision that was made by Novell - only open-licensed software will be distributed.
Well, I do not know what the terms of the agreement with Broadcom are. Novell already provides on nvidia ftp pre-packaged nVidia drivers. I think the same could be done for Broadcom drivers. When I asked, nobody said Broadcom refused and nobody confirmed they asked, so I do not know why this wasn't done.
I have no idea what developer and issue that you refer to. The consequence that I was thinking about is the tainting of the kernel, which in turn will eliminate the chance of any serious kernel developer from looking at any kernel oops that pops up.
Someone wanted to provide updated pre-packaged drivers (graphical drivers), and a "friendly & famous" kernel developer working at Novell replied with a threat of suing the packager. You can find the discussion somewhere in the ML.
The open-source driver for BCM43xx devices will always be trying to catch up.
Exactly. And that's unfixable without involving the manufacturer, with doubt results, since who opened the driver is not exactly keeping them in good shape (Intel as a first example, both for video and wireless cards).
Broadcom has made their decision. Involving them is not an option.
Well, yes. But they are also providing a working driver for quite some card. Ignoring this fact doesn't really help either imho.
I need to look at the installation scripts to see what I can do. At least I know which devices b43 supports.
Sounds good. A trick might be to download the sources and build the driver locally on the user machine to avoid complaints about redistribution of binary code and make also our friends kernel developers happier (they'll say the library is binary anyway, but well, that's Broadcom problem in the end). Best, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
SuSE could have, but openSUSE cannot. That is a decision that was made by Novell - only open-licensed software will be distributed.
Hence the name, OPENsuse :-) --Jonathon Robison -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
2009/9/30 Alberto Passalacqua
SuSE could have, but openSUSE cannot. That is a decision that was made by Novell - only open-licensed software will be distributed.
Well, I do not know what the terms of the agreement with Broadcom are. Novell already provides on nvidia ftp pre-packaged nVidia drivers. I think the same could be done for Broadcom drivers. When I asked, nobody said Broadcom refused and nobody confirmed they asked, so I do not know why this wasn't done.
I have an HP Mininote which is probaly suffering from this Broadcom issue. Has there been any discussion within Novel/openSUSE to contact Broadcom directly to get a user friendly solution? As openSUSE is distributing Opera/NVidia/ATI and similar free , but closed source products, I can't see any reason for not giving our users the same option regarding this driver. If possible...... I'd be more than willing to test any official solution. Kind Regards Birger -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Mandag den 28. september 2009 05:04:59 skrev Larry Finger:
Bernhard Wiedemann wrote:
wontfix: b43 (WLAN) firmware missing -> install_bcm43xx_firmware helps
Just for clarity: This is a "cannot fix" rather than a "won't fix". The copyright on the firmware files is held by Broadcom and they will not give permission to distribute them. The script /usr/sbin/install_bcm43xx_firmware is the most we can do.
I'm told Ubuntu has something that pops up and tells broadcom wlan owners that they have hardware which requires restricted stuff and then installs it - probably by running a similar script - but the user doesn't have to figure out which chip he has, and then that the script exists for installing the firmware. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander wrote:
I'm told Ubuntu has something that pops up and tells broadcom wlan owners that they have hardware which requires restricted stuff and then installs it - probably by running a similar script - but the user doesn't have to figure out which chip he has, and then that the script exists for installing the firmware.
I have seen Ubuntu's system in action, and your suggestion is a good one. It should not be too difficult to modify an installation script to detect the presence of a Broadcom chip and do the firmware installation step. As b43 does not support all Broadcom chips, it would also be a useful step to note the unsupported chips and tell the user of their options. These choices would taint their kernel with unlicensed code, thus they should not be done automatically. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Bernhard Wiedemann -
Birger Kollstrand -
Larry Finger -
Martin Schlander -
Rajko M. -
Robison, Jonathon (M.)