[opensuse-support] new TW install quesion
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows: P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows) I had OpenSuse installed before, but on a computer that went to computer heaven--or hell? --and had no trouble with dual booting, but in this case, the new computer came with no Windows disk or microsoft key, so if I louse it up, there will be a problem getting software, and I would like to keep the Windows part, even tho severely attenuated, and I'm not sure the new software supports dual boot. If the partitioning scheme could be better, I can still modify it, if necessary--like is there too much space for P5? I doubt that I will use up P6, ao I don't really need the space. (I have stuck with ext4 since other Linux systems use it and can read files written to that FS.) There has been some correspondence on the net that says that after update, the system won't boot. Is this going to be a problem with this version? Please advise. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/06/2020 03.10, Doug wrote:
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows:
P1 EFS sys fat32
You mean EFI?
P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
I had OpenSuse installed before, but on a computer that went to computer heaven--or hell? --and had no trouble with dual booting, but in this case, the new computer came with no Windows disk or microsoft key, so if I louse it up, there will be a problem getting software,
Do an image backup of the disk. Seriously, you need it. Stop now and get a new external hard disk, about double the size than the internal, and do an image backup with clonezilla or dd. Even if the Linux install goes fine, you need it because someday Windows may destroy himself.
and I would like to keep the Windows part, even tho severely attenuated, and I'm not sure the new software supports dual boot. If the partitioning scheme could be better, I can still modify it, if necessary--like is there too much space for P5? I doubt that I will use up P6, ao I don't really need the space. (I have stuck with ext4 since other Linux systems use it and can read files written to that FS.)
Your partition layout looks fine to me. But it is extra work you do not need, as YaST will want to do it again. Let it format them (the Linux ones).
There has been some correspondence on the net that says that after update, the system won't boot. Is this going to be a problem with this version
Unrelated.
Please advise. --doug
You just need to use the advanced partitioning tool in YaST to enter your layout instead of the proposed one (but starting from the proposed one). It will probably want to delete some and create some, so use your judgment. Don't delete any, make sure to use the existing EFI partition. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hi doug, Am 27.06.20 um 03:10 schrieb Doug:
--and had no trouble with dual booting, but in this case, the new computer came with no Windows disk or microsoft key, so if I louse it up, there will be a problem getting for this its easy, the windows key is inside the bios of your computer. when running a linux system (maybe live opensuse) you should be able to read it. (at least when opensuse is installed on sdd) command is:
xxd /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM this will show the windows key for this computer, write it down. windows 10 (maybe still 7 or 8.x) installation media is downloadable from microsoft webside. (check that you are on their webside do not use other downloads because of hacked systems) with this key and the downloaded iso you are able to install it again (maybe on this computer you do not need to insert the key by hand, it will probably find it automatic inside bios.) but if you would like to boot ONLY opensuse and run windows inside a virtualization (qemu) you will need the key. and of course, carlos are right, make a backup is best before, if you loose any data, nobody could help if you do not have a backup. here is a suggestion how to do with dd: dd ibs=1024 if=/dev/nvme0n1 conv=noerror,sync |pv -s 512110190592| pbzip2 -c > /path/to/your/external/hd/$HOSTNAME.img.bz2 dd= command ibs=1024 inputblocksize (this works fine for my nvme sdd) (to speed up read) (you do not need this command) if=/dev/nvme0n1 = this is the path to your sdd (to backup) you will have to modify conv=noerror,sync = not sure at the moment i !think! this will continue if errors read and make the backup as big as it should without errors (did not repair anything, but let it mountable after this (fills errors with 0 inside backup)) (sorry if not 100% correct explanation, i use my old shell-scripts and forgot the details) |pv -s 512110190592| = pipe it to command "pv" - monitor the progress of data through a pipe the number behind is the size of the input (that 100% will be 100%) if you do not know, use only pv without "-s 1233123123" and for second run take a look of the output from whole command, there you will see something like "input size" (you do not need at all, but the you do not see whats going on) | pbzip2 -c > /path/to/your/external/hd/$HOSTNAME.img.bz2 pipe it to command pbzip2 (parallelbzip2) (a packer who uses bzip2 format (widely used in unix) but the version who uses all cores of your mainprocessor) and save it somewhere with your computershostname. (you do not need to compress, but then the whole command must be a little different, and i personally prefer compressing, because this is the commandline to make at my computer complete full backup before updating) your live cd must have installed pv and pbzip2 if not this commandline will fail. i do not know if a live opensuse will have this installed. systemrescuecd will have. https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/ if you have made this backup you will be able to write it with one command line back to exactly this sdd.(or a bigger one, but loosing space) (the commandline i could provide if neccesarry) OR you could extract it as a imagefile (you need some more free space as your original drive has at the moment) and mount to it and extract single files, or use it inside a virtual machine. of course, normally i would before backup, clean up all empty diskspace with "0" to have a smaller backup'S: for windows you could use this tool: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443 start it inside a konsole sdelete64 -z c: (if 64bit windows if 32 then sdelete -z c: (and other drive letters similar) in linux for all mounted drives do a: cat /dev/zero > /deleteme when error message "no space on disk" (or similar) rm -f /deleteme -> of course this will do a lot of writing what would shorten the livetime of ssd's .... and of course the linux swap could be also cleaned up, but here you have to dd direct to the not mounted partition and later make a from this cleaned diskspace a new swap-partition. this is a little dangerous, if you use wrong partition you have destroyed all your systems on ssd/hdd so i would not explain here. all here use at own risk ;-)) simoN -- www.becherer.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/06/2020 13.05, Simon Becherer wrote:
Hi doug,
Am 27.06.20 um 03:10 schrieb Doug:
--and had no trouble with dual booting, but in this case, the new computer came with no Windows disk or microsoft key, so if I louse it up, there will be a problem getting for this its easy, the windows key is inside the bios of your computer. when running a linux system (maybe live opensuse) you should be able to read it.
I forgot that. ...
and of course, carlos are right, make a backup is best before, if you loose any data, nobody could help if you do not have a backup.
here is a suggestion how to do with dd:
dd ibs=1024 if=/dev/nvme0n1 conv=noerror,sync |pv -s 512110190592| pbzip2 -c > /path/to/your/external/hd/$HOSTNAME.img.bz2
dd= command ibs=1024 inputblocksize (this works fine for my nvme sdd) (to speed up read) (you do not need this command) if=/dev/nvme0n1 = this is the path to your sdd (to backup) you will have to modify conv=noerror,sync = not sure at the moment i !think! this will continue if errors read and make the backup as big as it should without errors (did not repair anything, but let it mountable after this (fills errors with 0 inside backup)) (sorry if not 100% correct explanation, i use my old shell-scripts and forgot the details) |pv -s 512110190592| = pipe it to command "pv" - monitor the progress of data through a pipe the number behind is the size of the input (that 100% will be 100%) if you do not know, use only pv without "-s 1233123123" and for second run take a look of the output from whole command, there you will see something like "input size" (you do not need at all, but the you do not see whats going on)
New command to me :-)
| pbzip2 -c > /path/to/your/external/hd/$HOSTNAME.img.bz2 pipe it to command pbzip2 (parallelbzip2) (a packer who uses bzip2 format (widely used in unix) but the version who uses all cores of your mainprocessor) and save it somewhere with your computershostname. (you do not need to compress, but then the whole command must be a little different, and i personally prefer compressing, because this is the commandline to make at my computer complete full backup before updating)
An alternative is to format the destination disk with btrfs and compression. It is transparent.
your live cd must have installed pv and pbzip2 if not this commandline will fail. i do not know if a live opensuse will have this installed. systemrescuecd will have. https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/
if you have made this backup you will be able to write it with one command line back to exactly this sdd.(or a bigger one, but loosing space) (the commandline i could provide if neccesarry) OR you could extract it as a imagefile (you need some more free space as your original drive has at the moment) and mount to it and extract single files, or use it inside a virtual machine.
of course, normally i would before backup, clean up all empty diskspace with "0" to have a smaller backup'S: for windows you could use this tool: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443 start it inside a konsole sdelete64 -z c: (if 64bit windows if 32 then sdelete -z c: (and other drive letters similar) in linux for all mounted drives do a: cat /dev/zero > /deleteme when error message "no space on disk" (or similar) rm -f /deleteme -> of course this will do a lot of writing what would shorten the livetime of ssd's
An alternative is use clonezilla tools which will try to skip unused sectors - but the resulting image is not mountable. Although I read a claim that they may be loop mountable if using sparse filesystems. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Doug composed on 2020-06-26 21:10 (UTC-0400):
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows:
P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
What created the list above, you and your keyboard? ESP means EFI System Partition An ESP partition always has to be VFAT. So, your "P5" cannot be ESP, and most likely has no use for a boot flag. Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/06/2020 14.15, Felix Miata wrote:
Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects.
Actually that's what I did the last time. Swapped from rust to ssd, and larger. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 6/27/2020 8:29 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 27/06/2020 14.15, Felix Miata wrote:
Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects.
Actually that's what I did the last time. Swapped from rust to ssd, and larger.
Hi, Carlos-- I am digesting (or trying to) the advice I have gotten from all who replied, but there's one point I have to make: This is a NEW* computer. I cannot see any hard drive in it!!! It is undoubtedly a silicon chip on the MOBO! I believe that there is a cable (or two) for an additional SSD, and I could obtain one and add it. It might be a hassle to boot onto it--right now I have an external USB CD drive connected--there is no internal CD drive--and I have to access the BIOS every time I want to boot the external drive--altho it looks like the boot process has been changed, it seems to revert right away. The advice is good, tho. I'll pick up another drive to mount inside the machine and put the Linux os on it, altho I don't know if I could cut the present drive out of the boot process. (By this time it should be obvious that I'm not a computer maven!) * PowerSpec, bought from Micro Center, Westbury, NY. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/06/2020 22.59, Doug wrote:
On 6/27/2020 8:29 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 27/06/2020 14.15, Felix Miata wrote:
Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects.
Actually that's what I did the last time. Swapped from rust to ssd, and larger.
Hi, Carlos--
I am digesting (or trying to) the advice I have gotten from all who replied, but there's one point I have to make: This is a NEW* computer. I cannot see any hard drive in it!!!
It may be an M2. On some cheap laptops, it can be soldered, but they tend to be small sizes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2>
It is undoubtedly a silicon chip on the MOBO! I believe that there is a cable (or two) for an additional SSD, and I could obtain one and add it. It might be a hassle to boot onto it--right now I have an external USB CD drive connected--there is no internal CD drive--and I have to access the BIOS every time I want to boot the external drive--altho it looks like the boot process has been changed, it seems to revert right away. The advice is good, tho. I'll pick up another drive to mount inside the machine and put the Linux os on it, altho I don't know if I could cut the present drive out of the boot process. (By this time it should be obvious that I'm not a computer maven!)
* PowerSpec, bought from Micro Center, Westbury, NY.
--doug
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-06-27 23:30 (UTC+0200):
Doug wrote:
I cannot see any hard drive in it!!!
It may be an M2....
Highly likely. The NVME variants are 4X or more as fast as the fastest SATA, which are something like 3X-4X as fast as the fastest SATA rotating rust.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2> -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 28/06/2020 01.42, Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-06-27 23:30 (UTC+0200):
Doug wrote:
I cannot see any hard drive in it!!!
It may be an M2....
Highly likely. The NVME variants are 4X or more as fast as the fastest SATA, which are something like 3X-4X as fast as the fastest SATA rotating rust.
Access time may be thousands of times faster. No seek time, no head movement.
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 6/27/2020 5:30 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 27/06/2020 22.59, Doug wrote:
On 6/27/2020 8:29 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 27/06/2020 14.15, Felix Miata wrote:
Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects.
Actually that's what I did the last time. Swapped from rust to ssd, and larger.
Hi, Carlos--
I am digesting (or trying to) the advice I have gotten from all who replied, but there's one point I have to make: This is a NEW* computer. I cannot see any hard drive in it!!!
It may be an M2. On some cheap laptops, it can be soldered, but they tend to be small sizes.
That's a new one on me! I will have to look more closely at the mobo when the new drive comes and I have the cover off. If it plugs in, as the picture shows, I might be able to take it out and live with the new drive, but I suspect that a lot of the boot parameters are on this drive. (After all, Windows eats up 4 partitions all by itself!) I am very tired of Windows, which I have been trying to use, since the other two available computers are old and not really reliable. Thanx for all the info from everybody! --doug
It is undoubtedly a silicon chip on the MOBO! I believe that there is a cable (or two) for an additional SSD, and I could obtain one and add it. It might be a hassle to boot onto it--right now I have an external USB CD drive connected--there is no internal CD drive--and I have to access the BIOS every time I want to boot the external drive--altho it looks like the boot process has been changed, it seems to revert right away. The advice is good, tho. I'll pick up another drive to mount inside the machine and put the Linux os on it, altho I don't know if I could cut the present drive out of the boot process. (By this time it should be obvious that I'm not a computer maven!)
* PowerSpec, bought from Micro Center, Westbury, NY.
--doug
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 08:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Doug composed on 2020-06-26 21:10 (UTC-0400):
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows: P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
What created the list above, you and your keyboard? ESP means
EFI System Partition
An ESP partition always has to be VFAT. So, your "P5" cannot be ESP, and most likely has no use for a boot flag.
Others suggested an image backup. I have a different suggestion, since this is a "new" computer. Take the SSD out and store it somewhere safe. Put a different SSD in to install to. That way if you need warranty service in the next one, two or three years, you can reverse swap and no one will know you ever used Linux, any trouble you have can be blamed on Windows, and any proprietary service utilities dependent on Windows will be available exactly as the service department expects. --
Keeping the old SSD/disk is useful not only for warranty returns, but it also saves a lot of time and hassle - copying and restoring disk by dd is very slow (like day slow) and making the old partition to boot after restoring it can be a challenge. That being said many windows laptops/computers will let you create recovery media - Lenovo, Delll, HP, Asus for sure - I personally find creating the recovery media faster than even opening the laptop. With the recovery media you can return the disk to original state for returns - unless of course the PC is broken - in which case having the original disk in the drawer helps. In EU the warranty on PCs is 2 years, in US it can me as short as month or three. That dramatically lowers the value of keeping the old SSD for the warranty returns with the SSD in the drawer. One last comment - installing linux in EFI based system typically involves storing OS signing keys in EFI/BIOS storage. This is of course done automatically by the installer - so it is transparent to the user. However, if the warranty technicians care to check - and the company wants to be difficult about linux - I very much doubt that these days - they could just check the UEFI/BIOS storage to see that you installed linux/openSuSE signing keys. I very much doubt that any company is willing to put a lot of forensics calories to customer replacements, beyond basic checks for mechanical/water/completeness damage. Best luck, Tomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 6/28/2020 4:14 PM, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 08:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Doug composed on 2020-06-26 21:10 (UTC-0400):
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows: P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
What created the list above, you and your keyboard? ESP means
EFI System Partition
An ESP partition always has to be VFAT. So, your "P5" cannot be ESP, and most likely has no use for a boot flag.
OK, here's the picture: (see attachment--I can't paste the damn picture using Windows!) That should obviate my typos. --doug
* Doug <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> [06-30-20 18:38]:
On 6/28/2020 4:14 PM, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 08:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Doug composed on 2020-06-26 21:10 (UTC-0400):
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows: P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
What created the list above, you and your keyboard? ESP means
EFI System Partition
An ESP partition always has to be VFAT. So, your "P5" cannot be ESP, and most likely has no use for a boot flag.
OK, here's the picture: (see attachment--I can't paste the damn picture using Windows!) That should obviate my typos. --doug
NO, you do not send 500k to everyone on the list. Show some basic courtesy. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2020-06-30 21:55 (UTC-0400):
Show some basic courtesy.
You mean like not quoting an entire thread in order to submit one sentence of your own? -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/07/2020 00.37, Doug wrote:
On 6/28/2020 4:14 PM, tomas.kuchta.lists@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 08:15 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Doug composed on 2020-06-26 21:10 (UTC-0400):
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows: P1 EFS sys fat32 P2 Microsoft reserved p3 Basic data ntfs P5 / ext4 46 GiB boot,esp P6 /home ext 234 GiB P7 linux swap 27 GiB p4 ntfs Basic data parttion (windows)
What created the list above, you and your keyboard? ESP means
EFI System Partition
An ESP partition always has to be VFAT. So, your "P5" cannot be ESP, and most likely has no use for a boot flag.
OK, here's the picture: (see attachment--I can't paste the damn picture using Windows!) That should obviate my typos.
Ok, first thing is you do not send large attachments to a mail list, impacting every subscriber and archiver. Instead, you put in some external share place, such as susepaste.org, and tell the link in a post. Or you could use "diskpart" to obtain a list of partitions, in text. <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/diskpart>
--doug
Then, you can not sign an email like that. Necessarily a signature on email has to start with a line that only contains dash, dash, space, line end then your signature end. Like my signature below. This is documented, for instance RFC3676, section 4.3 Now, about your partition setup. The best thing is to have NO partitions at all where you want Linux to go, because the install program will want to create them, and if sees all used space it will either baulk or want to delete the wrong partition. So, you could delete partitions 5, 6, and 7 and then run the SUSE installer. Or not, and tell the expert partitioner in the installer what to use, as I described on another post. And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32. And strange that also partition 5 has "boot, esp" flags. I would just delete 5, 6, and 7, then install. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 14:46 (UTC-0400):
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32.
Not strange at all. It's exactly what the UEFI specification prescribes in section 13.3: "EFI encompasses the use of FAT32 for a system partition, and FAT12 or FAT16 for removable media." https://uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/UEFI_Spec_2_8_final.pdf -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/07/2020 23.41, Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 14:46 (UTC-0400):
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32.
Not strange at all. It's exactly what the UEFI specification prescribes in section 13.3: "EFI encompasses the use of FAT32 for a system partition, and FAT12 or FAT16 for removable media."
https://uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/UEFI_Spec_2_8_final.pdf
I thought they have to be FAT 16. Mine are. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 23:47 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 20:46 (UTC+0200):
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32.
Not strange at all. It's exactly what the UEFI specification prescribes in section 13.3: "EFI encompasses the use of FAT32 for a system partition, and FAT12 or FAT16 for removable media."
https://uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/UEFI_Spec_2_8_final.pdf
I thought they have to be FAT 16. Mine are.
The YaST partitioner makes them by default FAT16 AFAICT for a legacy reason - because they are smaller than 512M or 528M or whatever the breakpoint is or was that makes or made FAT32 preferable to FAT16 for obsolete or space efficiency reasons. The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition". M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 23:47 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata wrote:
Carlos E. R. composed on 2020-07-01 20:46 (UTC+0200):
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32.
Not strange at all. It's exactly what the UEFI specification prescribes in section 13.3: "EFI encompasses the use of FAT32 for a system partition, and FAT12 or FAT16 for removable media."
https://uefi.org/sites/default/files/resources/UEFI_Spec_2_8_final.pdf
I thought they have to be FAT 16. Mine are.
The YaST partitioner makes them by default FAT16 AFAICT for a legacy reason - because they are smaller than 512M or 528M or whatever the breakpoint is or was that makes or made FAT32 preferable to FAT16 for obsolete or space efficiency reasons.
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition".
M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others.
I expect it depends on how old the machine is: /dev/sda1 vfat 96M 56M 41M 58% /boot/efi Because my machine came with Windows pre-installed. I would expect most machines do? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-02 10:37 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition".
M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others.
I expect it depends on how old the machine is:
/dev/sda1 vfat 96M 56M 41M 58% /boot/efi
Because my machine came with Windows pre-installed. I would expect most machines do?
AFAIK, there is no such filesystem type for fstab as fat12, fat16, fat32 or exfat. There are only msdos and vfat for any FAT filesystem type AFAICT. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 18:46:40 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-02 10:37 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition".
M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others.
I expect it depends on how old the machine is:
/dev/sda1 vfat 96M 56M 41M 58% /boot/efi
Because my machine came with Windows pre-installed. I would expect most machines do?
AFAIK, there is no such filesystem type for fstab as fat12, fat16, fat32 or exfat. There are only msdos and vfat for any FAT filesystem type AFAICT.
Dunno. The output I posted is from df -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-03 02:33 (UTC+0100):
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 18:46:40 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-02 10:37 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition".
M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others.
I expect it depends on how old the machine is:
/dev/sda1 vfat 96M 56M 41M 58% /boot/efi
Because my machine came with Windows pre-installed. I would expect most machines do?
AFAIK, there is no such filesystem type for fstab as fat12, fat16, fat32 or exfat. There are only msdos and vfat for any FAT filesystem type AFAICT.
Dunno. The output I posted is from df
# df -t fat df: no file systems processed # df -t msdos df: no file systems processed # df -t fat16 df: no file systems processed # df -t fat32 df: no file systems processed # df -t vfat Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/nvme0n1p1 327496 22000 305496 7% /boot/efi # grep efi /etc/fstab LABEL=MYESP /boot/efi vfat codepage=437 0 0 # lsblk /dev/nvme0n1p1 NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT nvme0n1p1 259:5 0 320M 0 part /boot/efi # blkid /dev/nvme0n1p1 /dev/nvme0n1p1: SEC_TYPE="msdos" LABEL_FATBOOT="MYESP" LABEL="MYESP" UUID="20A0-1003" BLOCK_SIZE="512" TYPE="vfat" PARTLABEL="MuP P01 EFI System (ESP)" PARTUUID="... # inxi -S System: Host: gb250 Kernel: 5.6.14-1-default x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Trinity R14.0.8 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20200628 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 22:35:49 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-03 02:33 (UTC+0100):
On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 18:46:40 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-02 10:37 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition".
M$ AFAIK always makes them FAT32, which is what I think all Debian's and its derivatives' installers do, and Fedora and others.
I expect it depends on how old the machine is:
/dev/sda1 vfat 96M 56M 41M 58% /boot/efi
Because my machine came with Windows pre-installed. I would expect most machines do?
AFAIK, there is no such filesystem type for fstab as fat12, fat16, fat32 or exfat. There are only msdos and vfat for any FAT filesystem type AFAICT.
Dunno. The output I posted is from df
# df -t fat df: no file systems processed # df -t msdos df: no file systems processed # df -t fat16 df: no file systems processed # df -t fat32 df: no file systems processed # df -t vfat Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/nvme0n1p1 327496 22000 305496 7% /boot/efi # grep efi /etc/fstab LABEL=MYESP /boot/efi vfat codepage=437 0 0 # lsblk /dev/nvme0n1p1 NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT nvme0n1p1 259:5 0 320M 0 part /boot/efi # blkid /dev/nvme0n1p1 /dev/nvme0n1p1: SEC_TYPE="msdos" LABEL_FATBOOT="MYESP" LABEL="MYESP" UUID="20A0-1003" BLOCK_SIZE="512" TYPE="vfat" PARTLABEL="MuP P01 EFI System (ESP)" PARTUUID="... # inxi -S System: Host: gb250 Kernel: 5.6.14-1-default x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Trinity R14.0.8 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20200628
Hmm, $ df -t fat32 df: no file systems processed $ df -t thin42 df: no file systems processed so I guess that doesn't tell us much # blkid /dev/sda1 /dev/sda1: LABEL="ESP" UUID="A2D4-EB6B" TYPE="vfat" PARTLABEL="EFI system partition" PARTUUID="2d6563ec-fd02-4309-bc44-3b5343fc88f2" # parted (parted) print ... Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 1049kB 106MB 105MB fat32 EFI system partition boot, esp ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-03 12:16 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system partition". ... # parted ... Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 1049kB 106MB 105MB fat32 EFI system partition boot, esp ...
Yours matches the specification! This is in contrast to Carlos' understanding, which matches an apparently common openSUSE installer/partitioner result. What created yours, a Windows tool? -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:59:26 -0400 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2020-07-03 12:16 (UTC+0100):
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 18:28:46 -0400 Felix Miata wrote:
> The specification says what I quoted, "FAT32 for a system > partition". ... # parted ... Number Start End Size File system Name Flags 1 1049kB 106MB 105MB fat32 EFI system partition boot, esp ...
Yours matches the specification! This is in contrast to Carlos' understanding, which matches an apparently common openSUSE installer/partitioner result.
What created yours, a Windows tool?
As I said, preinstalled on the machine by the vendor as part of the Windows installation that was part of the product. As to how exactly they formatted the disk, I have no idea. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 7/1/2020 2:46 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ok, first thing is you do not send large attachments to a mail list, impacting every subscriber and archiver. Instead, you put in some external share place, such as susepaste.org, and tell the link in a post.
Or you could use "diskpart" to obtain a list of partitions, in text.
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/diskpart>
/snip/ I apologize for the picture. I didn't know about the problem it caused, or a way around it. (I don't know if susepaste would work from this Windows computer, and I never heard of diskpart--I don't know if that works on Windows either.)
--doug
/snip/
Now, about your partition setup. The best thing is to have NO partitions at all where you want Linux to go, because the install program will want to create them, and if sees all used space it will either baulk or want to delete the wrong partition.
So, you could delete partitions 5, 6, and 7 and then run the SUSE installer. Or not, and tell the expert partitioner in the installer what to use, as I described on another post.
A year ago I installed OpenSuse TW on the predecessor to this Windows machine, and it was well behaved about leaving the Windows partitions alone and starting after the windows data partition. (I had made a Linux partition.) Can I expect that still to be true? Or I could put all of Linux (except it's boot environment) on a second drive, but I don't ever expect to use up as much of /dev/hda1 as my partitioning scheme allows for. (I think I have the terminology right--hda1--for first storage drive?) In a previous post, Carlos said he had NO OPPOSITION to my partitioning scheme, altho he said to let Linux do it. I just looked at an example of someone's partitioning setup. "Manual Partitioning of HardDisk in OpenSuse Tumbleweed in VirtualBox 5.2 for Beginners" from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWi-W_P4FjY I don't wish to get involved with Virtual Box--I don't see any reason to. I just want to put three partitions after the Windows three, which I have shrunk to what I think is a reasonable minimum, altho I think I could make the Windows data partition smaller, and the Linux /boot partition smaller, and give that extra space to /home. Then leave the small Windows partition 4 where it is, since Windows will presumably look for it there. I did not see Suse changing the sizes of the many partitions that our Italian friend proposed, unless I missed that.
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32. And strange that also partition 5 has "boot, esp" flags.
(I have no idea what the "esp" is there for. /boot is, of course, the Linux system partition.)
I would just delete 5, 6, and 7, then install. See below. (snipped.)
But I don't understand your story about partitioning. When I installed Suse TW on the old Windows machine--the one that died--it made just ONE partition, no home, no swap (if I remember). That's not what I want. I want basically what I have shown. Is that not possible? OTOH, I have seen the diagram in the video I mentioned above with, I think it was, 10 partitions. I see no reason for that--it's just wasting space forecasting what MIGHT wind up on one of his multitude of shelves. But, de gustibus non disputandam. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/07/2020 06.36, Doug wrote:
On 7/1/2020 2:46 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Ok, first thing is you do not send large attachments to a mail list, impacting every subscriber and archiver. Instead, you put in some external share place, such as susepaste.org, and tell the link in a post.
Or you could use "diskpart" to obtain a list of partitions, in text.
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/diskpart>
/snip/
I apologize for the picture. I didn't know about the problem it caused, or a way around it. (I don't know if susepaste would work from this Windows computer, and I never heard of diskpart--I don't know if that works on Windows either.)
Yes, it works with any system :-)
--doug
/snip/
Now, about your partition setup. The best thing is to have NO partitions at all where you want Linux to go, because the install program will want to create them, and if sees all used space it will either baulk or want to delete the wrong partition.
So, you could delete partitions 5, 6, and 7 and then run the SUSE installer. Or not, and tell the expert partitioner in the installer what to use, as I described on another post.
A year ago I installed OpenSuse TW on the predecessor to this Windows machine, and it was well behaved about leaving the Windows partitions alone and starting after the windows data partition. (I had made a Linux partition.) Can I expect that still to be true? Or I could put all of Linux (except it's boot environment) on a second drive, but I don't ever expect to use up as much of /dev/hda1 as my partitioning scheme allows for. (I think I have the terminology right--hda1--for first storage drive?)
In a previous post, Carlos said he had NO OPPOSITION to my partitioning scheme, altho he said to let Linux do it.
Yes, I say the same thing with other phrasing :-)
I just looked at an example of someone's partitioning setup. "Manual Partitioning of HardDisk in OpenSuse Tumbleweed in VirtualBox 5.2 for Beginners" from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWi-W_P4FjY
I don't wish to get involved with Virtual Box--I don't see any reason to. I just want to put three partitions after the Windows three, which I have shrunk to what I think is a reasonable minimum, altho I think I could make the Windows data partition smaller, and the Linux /boot
Whoa, wait, don't make a /boot partition.
partition smaller, and give that extra space to /home. Then leave the small Windows partition 4 where it is, since Windows will presumably look for it there. I did not see Suse changing the sizes of the many partitions that our Italian friend proposed, unless I missed that.
I'm not going to watch a video about a partitioning proposal :-p
And ESP is the partition 1. Strange that it is fat32. And strange that also partition 5 has "boot, esp" flags.
(I have no idea what the "esp" is there for. /boot is, of course, the Linux system partition.)
ESP: EFI System Partition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFI_system_partition
I would just delete 5, 6, and 7, then install. See below. (snipped.)
But I don't understand your story about partitioning. When I installed Suse TW on the old Windows machine--the one that died--it made just ONE partition, no home, no swap (if I remember). That's not what I want. I want basically what I have shown. Is that not possible? OTOH, I have seen the diagram in the video I mentioned above with, I think it was, 10 partitions. I see no reason for that--it's just wasting space forecasting what MIGHT wind up on one of his multitude of shelves. But, de gustibus non disputandam.
You do not need /boot. You need one ESP, which already exists. linux will write files there. It is your partition #1. You need one swap in a laptop, if you hope to hibernate the machine. I can't recommend a size without knowing your ram. It is possible to make do without it, but I don't recommend it. You can then make do with a single partition for both system and /home. It optimizes space, but makes maintenance more difficult (see below). Better install in two partitions, one for the system and another for /home. The system partition can be as small as 10 GB (even less). I'd use 20 or more. If using btrfs, I'd start with 50. And the rest for /home. The rationale for having two partitions, is that you can reinstall the system without touching your data in /home. Or install a different distribution. The openSUSE installer works best if the disk has empty, non-partitioned space. It will simply use it and create partitions there. If the space is partitioned, tell the installer to delete those partitions and make its own - so the three partitions you created waste time and effort. There is an option somewhere in the installer to tick several partitions to tell the installer to "use these". Find that option and use it. Just go ahead and install. If you don't like the results, scratch it and install again with what you learned. But remember: make an image backup of your Windows machine first (use clonezilla). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Doug composed on 2020-07-02 00:36 (UTC-0400):
I don't know if susepaste would work from this Windows computer,
http://susepaste.org/ works from any competent web browser.
and I never heard of diskpart--I don't know if that works on Windows either.)
Google says it is a Windows partitioner: <https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/windows-commands/diskpart>
A year ago I installed OpenSuse TW on the predecessor to this Windows machine, and it was well behaved about leaving the Windows partitions alone and starting after the windows data partition. (I had made a Linux partition.) Can I expect that still to be true?
Of course it's true, though not guaranteed for all circumstances. Behavior will be unwell if Windows has been installed in UEFI mode and openSUSE in legacy mode or vice versa. I have many PCs, lots of disks, probably no less than 500 partitions on working disks/SSDs/NVMEs, maybe >1000. Except on a Mac running MacOS, not one partition I can think of was created by an operating system, or an operating system installer, or a partitioning tool not available in versions that run using an identical interface on: DOS Linux MacOS OS/2 Windows IOW, all partitions here get created in advance of beginning any OS installation process. openSUSE's installer is the best at accepting what I direct and proceeding without issue. http://www.dfsee.com/ is the source of the non-free partitioner I use. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
On 6/26/2020 9:10 PM, Doug wrote:
I have down-loaded OS-TW today (26 June) and burned it to DVD. I want to ADD it to a Windows system on a new computer. I have partitioned the SSD as follows:
/snip/
There has been some correspondence on the net that says that after update, the system won't boot. Is this going to be a problem with this version?
Please advise. --doug
I see there is a new "snapshot" dated 28 June, with some problem areas. In this time of transition, I wonder if I should wait for a new system possibly a few more days ahead? Or I could install a year-old system like I had before, and wait long hours (!!!) for the upgrades to be accomplished. In the meantime, I actually have a real old Linux on a different machine that I can use in the interim, altho a couple of things don't work. I can sit this out for a while if that is advisable. Looking for the fewest problems--doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-support+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-support+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Dave Howorth -
Doug -
Felix Miata -
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Simon Becherer -
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