RE: [suse-security] secure yast2

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Reckhard, Tobias

18 Apr 2002 18 Apr '02

04:20

i don't know how yast2 performs with SuSE 8.0, but in 7.3 he is just like the name of his process: bignfat. On a 133Pentium with 96MB Ram and KDE2 running you simply can't work with YaST2. On startup of YaST2 it's really like in the old times, you can drink a cup of coffee while the programs comes up. On the other hand the P133 is not really state of the Art.

It's worse on the P90/48MB RAM I own. No, it's not up to current standards, but the machine is absolutely sufficient for its purposes. It's just the management and configuration tool that's a major pain in the *ss.

...

In my Opinion Yast2 is a great tool, but not for a old machine. I want also say that the SuSE-Distri is a great piece of work and i want thank all the SuSE-people for the great work.

And in my opinion, YaST2 is an interesting project, but it's much too resource-intensive to be called anything near a 'great tool'. I mean, look at the competition: Windows' Control Panel and other configuration panes. Those don't take half a minute to appear on a P2/266 w/ 128 MB RAM. And have you ever had xosview running when running YOU? First of all, it takes around *half an hour* to complete on some machines of mine (again P2/266 or P2/300 w/ 128 MB RAM) and it uses up almost the entire system memory *and* swap (128 MB, too). When YOU exits, memory usage drops from 128/128 to 94/24 or thereabouts, and the 94 are at least half comprised of cache. Note that this is all with a local mirror of the FTP site, so the download time comes into the equation with just above zero.. I can only repeat, YaST2 looks promising, but it's much too clunky to be a 'great tool' at the moment. I'm still sticking with SuSE, but I may switch to something else on that P90 (hey, I've still got a 486/66, that's waiting to be revived as soon as I get some memory that works in it). BTW, upgrading the machine is not an option, considering the price of EDO RAM modules. Cheers Tobias

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Per R Laursen

18 Apr 18 Apr

06:52

New subject: [suse-security] secure yast2

Don't install X and run yast2 in text mode. Works fine for me on P75 machines. Regards Per R Laursen

Ken Schneider

11:57

New subject: [suse-security] secure yast2

Per R Laursen wrote:

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Don't install X and run yast2 in text mode.

Works fine for me on P75 machines.

Regards

Per R Laursen

Or unset DISPLAY to run in text mode while in X. -- Ken Schneider Senior UNIX Administrator Network Administrator

Steffen Dettmer

09:27

New subject: [suse-security] secure yast2

* Reckhard, Tobias wrote on Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 06:20 +0200: [YaST2]

...

Those don't take half a minute to appear on a P2/266 w/ 128 MB RAM. And have you ever had xosview running when running YOU?

Hum, since we're already completly off topic, I couldn't resist :) Did anybody checked why YaST2 performs like star office :)? I think yast2 is open source.

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First of all, it takes around *half an hour* to complete on some machines of mine (again P2/266 or P2/300 w/ 128 MB RAM)

That's really bad to hear. I write this mail on a P100 with 48MB RAM. This is much more calculation power than needed to fly to the moon :) - but not enough for yast2/suse8? Hum, sad... So SuSE droped support for all those old machines? Until now, I though I can upgrade if the running SuSE ist to old - neccesary, since there are no update RPMs for old distries - and now I have to exchange the servers completly (I don't think it makes sense to upgrade the RAM of P100-P233 if even 128 is too slow). Hum. Well, from 8.0 I think I'll need different setup procedures. I think I'll use a cheap desktop class PC (those with the power and 3D graphics cards :)) to install, and after that the harddrive may be moved into the new old server.

...

I can only repeat, YaST2 looks promising, but it's much too clunky to be a 'great tool' at the moment.

BTW, I really wonder why every distri needs it's own configure tool... But it is at least nice that YaST2 runs without hardware accelerated OpenGL :-) SCNR. oki, Steffen -- Dieses Schreiben wurde maschinell erstellt, es trägt daher weder Unterschrift noch Siegel.

NP AE Ruslan O. Nesterov

09:46

New subject: SUSE 8.0

Dear Friends, I've heard a lot about bet test of SuSe 8.0 Anyone can tell me what kind of security improvements were made? Regards, Ruslan O. Nesterov NP AE ASBISc Enterprises ltd. Moscow, Russian Federation P.S. And is there is a place where to get it?

Christopher Mahmood

20:31

New subject: OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

* Steffen Dettmer (steffen@dett.de) [020418 02:21]:

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Did anybody checked why YaST2 performs like star office :)? I think yast2 is open source.

It's not OpenSource© because of the restriction in the license that prohibits redistribution for money, but it's open source in the sense that you get the source and can do pretty much what you want.

...

...
First of all, it takes around *half an hour* to complete on some machines of mine (again P2/266 or P2/300 w/ 128 MB RAM)

That's really bad to hear.

I think that might be true if trying to run it in X, but the curses version shouldn't be much slower than yast1.

...

But it is at least nice that YaST2 runs without hardware accelerated OpenGL :-) SCNR.

OpenGL support is planned for 8.1. Just kidding, -- -ckm

Alan Hadsell

20:36

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

Christopher Mahmood writes:

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I think that might be true if trying to run it in X, but the curses version shouldn't be much slower than yast1.

That definitely isn't true with limited RAM. YaST2 uses much more RAM/swap, even if it's running with curses. -- Alan Hadsell If brute force doesn't work, you aren't using enough.

Laurie Brown

19 Apr 19 Apr

07:59

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

Alan Hadsell wrote:

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Christopher Mahmood writes:

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I think that might be true if trying to run it in X, but the curses version shouldn't be much slower than yast1.

That definitely isn't true with limited RAM. YaST2 uses much more RAM/swap, even if it's running with curses.

If it runs at all, which on my firewalls, it doesn't. Listen SuSE, THIS IS A PROBLEM... People (like me) are going to stop buying the SuSE distro because of this... Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Host Master

08:57

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

...

...
That definitely isn't true with limited RAM. YaST2 uses much more RAM/swap, even if it's running with curses.

If it runs at all, which on my firewalls, it doesn't. Listen SuSE, THIS IS A PROBLEM... People (like me) are going to stop buying the SuSE distro because of this...

Since we are all off topic anyway, whatever happened to the yast2 feature from SuSE 6.4 where you could connect your local yast2 to a remote machine? That one used to be compatible with linuxconf too. The graphics in yast2 is taking steps forward, but the functionality is working backwards. This is a real problem on the pre-packaged SuSE products such as Email Server 3 which you cannot use yast or the SuSE "special" DNS webadmin tool to properly administer the DNS server, its not linuxconf compatible and doesnt come with any compilers in order to build linuxconf from source. Big gobs of money, break the no warranty seal, no help from an "installation only" support agreement, and your stuck with sub-standard tools like yast to get the job done. Who cares if its open source or not, it should be dumped source.

...

Cheers, Laurie. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Laurie Brown laurie@brownowl.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-security-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-security-help@suse.com Security-related bug reports go to security@suse.de, not here

jfweber＠bellsouth.net

11:21

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

** On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:57:39 +0100 "Host Master" tossed this note into the solar wind: **its not linuxconf compatible and doesnt come with **any compilers in order to build linuxconf from source. um, isn't "linuxconf" a tool specific to another distro? IF so why on earth would Suse need to make their own configuration tool compile into someone elses' tools? Is there some specific reason you are attmpting to do a Chinese restraunt setup ( one from Column "a" one from Column "b" , or perhaps some part from Suse, some other part from Redhat , or Mandrake, or ????? ) or perhaps I am just braindead this time of night/morning -- j Because we can't know what tomorrow will bring,;be sure to say good -bye afterthought : No, my powers can only be used for good.

Boris Lorenz

11:39

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

Yuppa, Laurie Brown wrote:

...

If it runs at all, which on my firewalls, it doesn't. Listen SuSE, THIS IS A PROBLEM... People (like me) are going to stop buying the SuSE distro because of this...

I can only second that. Although I do 90% of my administration/configuration on the command line, I have lots of old machines running out there with *very* limited ressources (486 DX4100 anyone?). After all, it was one of the main reasons back then for some of our customers to switch over to Linux that they could re-vitalize the older hardware. Although the demand for that isn't that high anymore, it's still there. I want my old YaST back! :)

...

Cheers, Laurie.

Boris Lorenz ---

Erwin Zierler - stubainet.at

12:27

New subject: [suse-security] OT Re: [suse-security] secure yast2

Hi, been using SuSE since 5.3 now and have it running on at least 30 machines ranging from backoffice servers to firewalls, web- and email servers. Naturally I am administering these machines mostly via remote access (ssh) and since the mayor part of our customers is hooked up via ADSL I dont really want to use anything that consumes alot of bandwidth - the slimmer the better. If really have tried to become familiar with yast2 but because of all the reasons stated already earlier in this thread I still prefer yast1 and most likely this will not change unless I am forced to. Now, running my own company I have experienced that you may be able to force customers for a while but eventually you will loose most of them as soon as they find an alternative. Many times this is even quite an emotional decision rather than a matter of reasonable thought. Hearing that SuSE 8.0 drops yast1 is - at least for me - definitely a reason not to buy it. This may change in the future as older hardware dies and is replaced. But as it is now I have just too many machines running (and running fine!) that I cant replace but also cant upgrade anymore. It gets harder and harder with every SuSE distribution. As support for older SuSE versions is dropped I am forced to buy new hardware because I dont get security updates anymore (ah, not all off topic ;-) and the newest distro doesn't even install on the old machine anymore (or only with mayor hassle). Anyway, maybe SuSE could make a poll and then decide what their (esp. long time) users want ;-) Thanks for your consideration, Erwin PS.: and yes I realize this is OT but so was most of this thread ;-) --- Boris Lorenz wrote:

...

Yuppa,

Laurie Brown wrote:

...
If it runs at all, which on my firewalls, it doesn't. Listen SuSE, THIS IS A PROBLEM... People (like me) are going to stop buying the SuSE distro because of this...

I can only second that. Although I do 90% of my administration/configuration on the command line, I have lots of old machines running out there with *very* limited ressources (486 DX4100 anyone?). After all, it was one of the main reasons back then for some of our customers to switch over to Linux that they could re-vitalize the older hardware. Although the demand for that isn't that high anymore, it's still there.

I want my old YaST back! :)

...
Cheers, Laurie.

Boris Lorenz ---

-- Erwin Zierler | web- / host- / postmaster - stubainet.at | erwin.zierler@stubainet.at / webmaster@stubainet.at | Tel.: 0 5225 - 64325 Fax 99 Mobil: 0664 - 130 67 91

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participants (12)

Alan Hadsell
Boris Lorenz
Christopher Mahmood
Erwin Zierler - stubainet.at
Host Master
jfweber＠bellsouth.net
Ken Schneider
Laurie Brown
NP AE Ruslan O. Nesterov
Per R Laursen
Reckhard, Tobias
Steffen Dettmer