Am 18.11.19 um 10:04 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:

Sarah Julia Kriesch schrieb:

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the German Translation Team has crazy ideas I have to forward. We have a discussion on our mailing list[0] because of using "Sie" and not "Du" for speaking with our users. Our suggestion is to switch to "Du" in the openSUSE-welcome application and to conduct UX tests in the German community. openSUSE-welcome is only on openSUSE Tumbleweed at the moment and contains a small po file. Therefore, that is an excellent application to test how our German users are accepting this salutation.

The "Du" is expanding in Germany at the moment. I receive this offer at most conferences. Microsoft and Amazon are using that in their German translation, too. Should we give it a try?

Whether or not Du is acceptable depends on context, target audience and culture IMO. For some consumer products Du is probably acceptable and for stuff like Alexa likely intentional so it doesn't feel like a stranger in your flat. For anything serious I'd find that unprofessional. I wouldn't want a tool or a machine talk to me like a buddy. For German I'd generally go for passive anyways.

That is the reason for User Experience Tests before doing that everywhere. :) I have asked different people how their feeling would be after a "Du" by a system. People with IT experience said: "I prefer the "Do" and like that." People with low IT experience said: ""Du" by a system? I don't accept that in the real life by unknown people, too." Therefore, I am unsure. Most Linux users are IT experienced people. But we habe Linux newbies in the community, too. So we can receive their feedback, too. I agree we should not do all in one step.

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My plan would be: 1) Christian Imhorst is allowed to change all from "Sie" to "Du" in the opensuse-welcome.po, because he had the idea. 2) I create a poll and ask our community on different mailing lists after their opinion. 3) If they want to keep that and want to have all in this kind of translation we can think about changing all. If they want to have "Sie" we can execute "git reset --hard e4e5a93b8f4e07099e12f289b9c8317622db21c7"

If we follow after other German software translations, we have to pay attention to other affected Linux distributions: 1) SLES/SLED

That would be the first group to check with. It would be highly counter productive if SUSE needs to fork SLE translations again.

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2) Debian, because they are using some of our translations (some openSUSE Members are Debian Contributors because of that ;)) 3) Translations for different Desktops have to be changed and "all" Desktop Linux distributions are affected.

What is your opinion about the first step with the UX test for openSUSE-welcome?

openSUSE-welcome is targeting newbies, TW only and makes the connection to social media. So using Du could be perfectly fine for it. Doesn't mean the experience can be extrapolated to other components.

Should we test that with openSUSE-welcome on Tumbleweed? We can watch that and decide later about the next step.

cu Ludwig

Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+owner@opensuse.org

Am 19.11.19 um 02:13 schrieb Simon Lees:

On 11/17/19 6:48 AM, Sarah Julia Kriesch wrote:

...

Hi Dominique and Ludwig,

the German Translation Team has crazy ideas I have to forward. We have a discussion on our mailing list[0] because of using "Sie" and not "Du" for speaking with our users. Our suggestion is to switch to "Du" in the openSUSE-welcome application and to conduct UX tests in the German community. openSUSE-welcome is only on openSUSE Tumbleweed at the moment and contains a small po file. Therefore, that is an excellent application to test how our German users are accepting this salutation.

The "Du" is expanding in Germany at the moment. I receive this offer at most conferences. Microsoft and Amazon are using that in their German translation, too. Should we give it a try?

My plan would be: 1) Christian Imhorst is allowed to change all from "Sie" to "Du" in the opensuse-welcome.po, because he had the idea. 2) I create a poll and ask our community on different mailing lists after their opinion. 3) If they want to keep that and want to have all in this kind of translation we can think about changing all. If they want to have "Sie" we can execute "git reset --hard e4e5a93b8f4e07099e12f289b9c8317622db21c7"

If we follow after other German software translations, we have to pay attention to other affected Linux distributions: 1) SLES/SLED 2) Debian, because they are using some of our translations (some openSUSE Members are Debian Contributors because of that ;)) 3) Translations for different Desktops have to be changed and "all" Desktop Linux distributions are affected.

This would involve significant work with a lot of upstreams, given that for desktops like enlightenment all of the translations come from upstream which is the same for alot of packages.

That is the reason for doing that slowly (one step after the next one). At first openSUSE-welcome and watching how that would be accepted. The next step would be all other translation files and the integration of SLES/SLED to our tests (here the same with different steps). We can benefit from a sustainable German translation in openSUSE. That is the small using of "Sie". We are transforming to "Bitte das machen." instead of "Bitte machen Sie das.". Therefore, we don't have to change a lot in our own translations. The German translation team is open for such a change and you can use the Weblate search or grep/vim search for finding these positions. I know the amount of work behind that. But our German translations are around 100% most of the time and if our translation team wants to do it I would say "Let's try with a small po file as openSUSE-welcome.". Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+owner@opensuse.org