Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

I was also expecting to find a source ISO, but I guess there aren't any?

http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/source_code.html

FYI, I can't find any ISO images through that. The links lead back to download.opensuse.org. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Michal Marek wrote:

On 3.12.2009 11:06, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

...

I was also expecting to find a source ISO, but I guess there aren't any?

http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/source_code.html

FYI, I can't find any ISO images through that. The links lead back to download.opensuse.org.

The link says that you can order a source DVD via snail mail. It's about 11.1, but is most likely for 11.2 as well.

Michal

Michal, thanks, I _did_ read that. Any particular reason why those ISO images aren't provided for download? /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Adrian Schröter wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 3. Dezember 2009 12:10:46 schrieb Per Jessen:

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Any particular reason why those ISO images aren't provided for download?

We have already problems finding mirrors to mirror the source rpms, double the content is not really helping here.

Also, you typically only need the sources of some packages, where you want to have a look and not all of them. It would be just a waste of resources IMHO.

Oh, I completely agree - I certainly don't have a need for a source DVD, but the OP was looking for it, and only found the for-a-fee hardcopy. Sometimes it is also good to explain why something isn't provided :-) /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 4. Dezember 2009 09:27:21 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

2009/12/4 Adrian Schröter :

...

We have already problems finding mirrors to mirror the source rpms, double the content is not really helping here.

Also, you typically only need the sources of some packages, where you want to have a look and not all of them. It would be just a waste of resources IMHO.

And in the end, I consider src.rpms anyway as resource waste. It is way more easy to stay update 2 date with osc. You can check out the source where you are interessted in with it (or also all from a project), you can read the history, you can easily keep up 2 date and you can even fix something via that. You have also one interface to get all different versions of sources between the distro versions, the updates and user variations.

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

All true, but it doesn't let the user say they actually have all the source, that they use.

Perhaps a script to ensure up to date source has been downloaded for every installed package, would meet the user requirements and those of binary ISO distributors?

You can either use YaST for installing package sources or use rsync to keep a copy of the source rpm tree. I fail to see the need for an additional iso. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 4. Dezember 2009 14:36:50 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

2009/12/4 Adrian Schröter :

...

Am Freitag, 4. Dezember 2009 09:27:21 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

...

2009/12/4 Adrian Schröter :

...

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

All true, but it doesn't let the user say they actually have all the source, that they use.

Perhaps a script to ensure up to date source has been downloaded for every installed package, would meet the user requirements and those of binary ISO distributors?

You can either use YaST for installing package sources or use rsync to keep a copy of the source rpm tree.

I fail to see the need for an additional iso.

Does the project want another misleading anti-Novell story on one of the FOSS websites? That's probably what willll happen if the source is not more accessible.

it would be just flaming and irrealistic. The interesst in src rpms is so low, that most mirrors don't want them already, but they are even available. So I think you just need to accept the lower download speed and go to a mirror not in your country. Or convince some mirror in your county to mirror them.

At moment it appears the osc method is only one that can work for me, and that requires the login and use of SUSE specific tools, which aren't well understood outside of our community.

Now enabling the source repo on my system, caused an error message on Software Manager startup, about content key. This means for first time ever, I've failed to install distro source using YaST which always worked in past.

I agree the source ISO is not necessary, but you were considering "get rid of src rpms". Currently with them it would not be hard to write such a tool to install & update src rpm's for installed packages. If you drop src rpm as redundant and use osc, then it could work similarly.

Yes, we would most likely need offer an anonyous checkout than, but it won't be a GPL violation either if you need to create an account-

From the OP's point of view, installing source packages manually in YaST is *NOT* going to be a realistic solution. There is NOT an "All Packages -> Install source rpm" feature available. Nor is getting source 1 at a time via osc even if it is more practical for developer's rather than ppl ticking FOSS checklists.

The src rpm's are not available on browseable download.opensuse.org ftp site, so indeed an ISO or a script to install source packages would seem necessary to "have all the source", even for those willing to have the Novell logins.

???? What about http://download.opensuse.org/source/ ? -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hi, Am 04.12.2009 um 14:36 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

2009/12/4 Adrian Schröter :

...

Am Freitag, 4. Dezember 2009 09:27:21 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

...

2009/12/4 Adrian Schröter :

...

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

All true, but it doesn't let the user say they actually have all the source, that they use.

Perhaps a script to ensure up to date source has been downloaded for every installed package, would meet the user requirements and those of binary ISO distributors?

You can either use YaST for installing package sources or use rsync to keep a copy of the source rpm tree.

I fail to see the need for an additional iso.

Does the project want another misleading anti-Novell story on one of the FOSS websites? That's probably what willll happen if the source is not more accessible.

It's there. Have you tried? zypper install rsync mkdir /home/rob/opensuse-source rsync -rv rsync://stage.opensuse.org/opensuse-source/distribution/ 11.2 /home/rob/opensuse-source http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/ I also see 10 mirrors worldwide: http://mirrors.opensuse.org/list/11.2.html Sure, you could always want more... feel free to set up a mirror, find one that we didn't know of yet, or convince somebody to mirror the content. 11.2 is 12G in size; the entire opensuse-source module is 52G. I'm sure that everybody appreciates your worriedness about further misleading anti-Novell stories, and takes your warning seriously, but I don't think that your prediction will happen.

At moment it appears the osc method is only one that can work for me, and that requires the login and use of SUSE specific tools, which aren't well understood outside of our community.

Welcome to the club. Not being able to access the sources in the build service is indeed regrettable, and a great annoyance to me as well. But the sources are there in the form or source RPMs. More than half of the disk space is devoted to source RPMs... check the download server and mirror stage server...

Now enabling the source repo on my system, caused an error message on Software Manager startup, about content key. This means for first time ever, I've failed to install distro source using YaST which always worked in past.

A bug to report. Maybe you are the first who ever tried it; or the first who ever bothers to create a bug report for it. Or the bug has been reported by others, but nobody is interested enough in fixing it. All possible!

I agree the source ISO is not necessary, but you were considering "get rid of src rpms". Currently with them it would not be hard to write such a tool to install & update src rpm's for installed packages. If you drop src rpm as redundant and use osc, then it could work similarly.

Well, instead of hosting a terabyte (yes!) of source RPMs, well, it would be possible to generate them on the fly from the sources, on those rare occasions where somebody accesses them. But buying disk space is probably cheaper than paying somebody to implement something clever, or even find someone to do it.

The src rpm's are not available on browseable download.opensuse.org ftp site, so indeed an ISO or a script to install source packages would seem necessary to "have all the source", even for those willing to have the Novell logins.

They are - see above :-) Peter

Hi, Am 04.12.2009 um 16:48 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

2009/12/4 Peter Pöml :

...

...

Does the project want another misleading anti-Novell story on one of the FOSS websites? That's probably what willll happen if the source is not more accessible.

It's there. Have you tried?

Did try, but as the OP mentioned it's not obvious what is missing, when you are Mirror brained to a partial mirror, binary rpm + iso mirror. The one I looked for stuff after YaST failed, was Mirrorservice at Kent in UK, which did have 14 GB with updates already for 11.2.

I think there is a common assumption that a mirror would reflect the origin server quite well. While this was always the case in our fathers' days, nowadays we have to deal with a file tree of maybe 2 TB, which no mirror is going to want to have. Thus, we offer them a subset that promises to make the most sense to users. This means getting those parts to users that are most likely to be popular, which is boils down to only 30-150G in the end, and which is just the amount that an average mirror is willing to contribute on resources.

When I saw this thread start, I thought "no problem" but sure enough when I tried for myself, I was surprised as things I expect to work didn't.

Yes, this often happens.

...

zypper install rsync mkdir /home/rob/opensuse-source rsync -rv rsync://stage.opensuse.org/opensuse-source/distribution/ 11.2 /home/rob/opensuse-source

http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/

I also see 10 mirrors worldwide: http://mirrors.opensuse.org/list/11.2.html

That's working Peter thanks! This is good to clear this up.

...

I'm sure that everybody appreciates your worriedness about further misleading anti-Novell stories, and takes your warning seriously, but I don't think that your prediction will happen.

If the project responds to requests for easy way to get source, with non-standard means, and talk of withdrawing source rpm's rather than pointing (as you have) to where it is, a misleading impression gets created.;

Yes, it is not nice to see when people are put off.

...

...

Now enabling the source repo on my system, caused an error message on Software Manager startup, about content key. This means for first time ever, I've failed to install distro source using YaST which always worked in past.

A bug to report. Maybe you are the first who ever tried it; or the first who ever bothers to create a bug report for it. Or the bug has been reported by others, but nobody is interested enough in fixing it. All possible!

On it, typically are re-enbling repo, so it refreshed, start Software Manager and no error this time. Still no source rpm's in repo though, nor any way I find to install the source like worked in past releases.

...

Well, instead of hosting a terabyte (yes!) of source RPMs, well, it would be possible to generate them on the fly from the sources, on those rare occasions where somebody accesses them. But buying disk space is probably cheaper than paying somebody to implement something clever, or even find someone to do it.

I basically agree with you, I just think GPL compliance is important; SuSE 6.1, 7, 8, 10, 11 all made the source very available, so I am surprised to be suddenly stumped in 11.2.

...

...

The src rpm's are not available on browseable download.opensuse.org ftp site, so indeed an ISO or a script to install source packages would seem necessary to "have all the source", even for those willing to have the Novell logins.

They are - see above :-)

Mirror brain sends me somewhere...http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/suse/

Note the difference of the location of binary and source RPMs: http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/ http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/repo/ There's also http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/11.2/repo/ and, more widely-known, http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/ but also http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/11.2/ (Update sources however live together with the binary RPMs, a bit inconsistently) The reason of this split-up in the first place is to make the huge amounts of files more manageable. The extreme growth of openSUSE software hosting needs during the last few years, since the build service was invented, pushed everything to its limits. Results of some earlier discussions are reflected in http://en.opensuse.org/FTP_Server_Layout (slight misnomer; there is no FTP server.) Peter

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

Currently osc/obs webfrontend is for novell accounts only, and also a seperate tool if one wants to really see the history of the package (osc) So the srpms fill an important niche, people from upstream projects getting bugreports can simply go ahead, download the source rpm and check the .spec file for obvious mistakes in the building process and/or check the patches applied. Before dumping source rpms for saving space, which is somewhat questionable looking at the huge space and traffic the home: repositories generate, people need an anonymous read access, I don't think any other distribution forces something like this on external people. Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 04 décembre 2009, à 10:56 +0100, Vincent Untz a écrit :

Le vendredi 04 décembre 2009, à 09:56 +0100, Karsten König a écrit :

...

...

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

Currently osc/obs webfrontend is for novell accounts only, and also a seperate tool if one wants to really see the history of the package (osc)

You can use the hack I wrote a year ago to download files from the obs without an account: http://tmp.vuntz.net/opensuse-packages/browse.py

Forgot to link to the feature that would really fix this the right way: https://features.opensuse.org/306192 Unfortunately, it looks like it needs a bit more effort than it seems to implement it (see last comment from Adrian, it'd take two weeks to implement). Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Am including Factory list, perhaps in 11.3 a better way of making source available to end users, which avoids big load on Build Service and Mirrors is possible? On project list, a request was made for source by someone unfamiliar with openSUSE suggested an ISO; installing source rpm's with YaST is not working as it did in past for me, because only binary packages are held on most of the download.opensuse.org mirrors. 2009/12/4 Peter Pöml :

Am 04.12.2009 um 09:56 schrieb Karsten König:

...

...

All of that is not doable via offering source rpms, so, maybe we can get rid of src rpms at all later ...

Currently osc/obs webfrontend is for novell accounts only, and also a seperate tool if one wants to really see the history of the package (osc)

I agree, that's really bad.

...

So the srpms fill an important niche, people from upstream projects getting bugreports can simply go ahead, download the source rpm and check the .spec file for obvious mistakes in the building process and/or check the patches applied.

Before dumping source rpms for saving space, which is somewhat questionable looking at the huge space and traffic the home: repositories generate, people need an anonymous read access, I don't think any other distribution forces something like this on external people.

Source RPMs have a special drawback in the build service: they are published as many times as there are build targets, with slight variations only. See http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2009-06/msg00169.html

Well, that's were 30-50% of the build service disk space goes!

This is a similar percentage of space as the home: namespace. It is significant :-)

Excluding build service source RPMs from mirroring is an important instrument to find fmirrors at all.

So problems are : 1) source rpm's are changed and re-published over frequently by Build service 2) source rpm take huge diskspace and bandwidth, for something rarely required on installed system 3) obtaining the source to build and modify a package on end-user system (as required by GPL) is less obvious than it was in past Can we simply have seperate hosts in URI's for binary download, binary debug & source packages? What about a way to install all the source of used packages? Obtaining all the project source is handled by snail mail request for a (possibly chargeable) DVD. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Though this has got long, I actually think very small simple things would suffice, like a "ReadmeSource" in the right place.. 2009/12/5 Peter Pöml :

Am 05.12.2009 um 10:28 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

...

Am including Factory list, perhaps in 11.3 a better way of making source available to end users, which avoids big load on Build Service and Mirrors is possible?

Uhm, these are two separate issues: - installability of source RPMs on released openSUSE (which you ran into)

- the multiplication of sources in the build service (which I mentioned just because Karsten mentioned the size of the home: namespace in the build service; I tried to set into perspective where most of the space goes.)

Yes, I mentioned as Adrian was talked about dropping source rpm's. Perhaps he meant in very specific area, where they're redundant and not useful but I had a more general impression from the context of the discussion. Personally I think a disconnected installation ought to be (at least in theory) maintainable independant without requiring external access; it is a USP of FOSS over closed source. Sometimes it gets forgotten but "End of LIfe" (recently openSUSE 10.3) does not mean that OS stops working, or unable to function as well as it did in past. The main issue is noone patches security vulnerabilities.

...

On project list, a request was made for source by someone unfamiliar with openSUSE suggested an ISO; installing source rpm's with YaST is not working as it did in past for me, because only binary packages are held on most of the download.opensuse.org mirrors.

Since the distribution of downloads to mirrors is transparent, well, just let it work for you. And even if all mirrors would stop mirroring source rpms - that wouldn't change their general availability, because we still offer them, and it wouldn't change the way how YaST installs them.

They are currently available, the thing is it's easy to look in the wrong place, and they are not where one expects to find them. May be binary mirrors could simply include ReadmeSource file, which contains the actual URI as a reminder.

...

So problems are :

1) source rpm's are changed and re-published over frequently by Build service

That problem affects only the build service - their infrastructure needs more disks, but that's bout it. It shouldn't bother you at least.

It's not about re-publishing by the way. And not about the fact that they change often. It's about duplication. (To fully understand the implications, and in how far they matter, you'll have to read the complete thread that I referenced.)

To give you an example: each source RPMs contains a tarball (the packed sources from the upstream project), a build description, and possible bits like configuration and stuff. If you build Apache, there is a tarball called httpd-2.2.14.tar.bz2 used in the build, and it is included into the source RPM. <snip>

OK, so the source rpm format could allow an external URI for the source and cryto hash checksums. So long as a local cache copy can be auto-matically retrieved if it's not present locally on a build everyone will be happy.

So, this extreme duplication of sources in the build service is a problem for itself, but it has no effect on users. And the sources that developers are working with are not the source RPMs (which are just a fallout from the build system by automatism), but the original sources. Adrian surely has a point in mentioning that these source RPMs (those of the build service!!) are redundant and utterly useless. It is fully reasonable to suggest getting rid of them _under_ the condition that the original sources are made available anonymously (which isn't the case yet).

Yes. But how is it intended for end user to get the source of packages they're using? As it stands, the repo system has a source repo, but using rpm build seems to be discouraged (as it builds against current system), and installing the source seems neglected in Software Manager, making it's presence misleadingly pointless.

...

2) source rpm take huge diskspace and bandwidth, for something rarely required on installed system

See 1), this affects the build service-internal infrastructure, but it's built to handle it. (Which doesn't exclude thinking about optimizations of course :-))

...

3) obtaining the source to build and modify a package on end-user system (as required by GPL) is less obvious than it was in past

I can't judge - I don't use YaST or something. However the sources are all there, which we probably all agree on. They are accessible through various means (even mirrored, and free to be mirrored by everybody with no restrictions and no exceptions); there's the convenient build service for those who want to work with the sources seriously enough to bother creating a Novell account, and there is an option in YaST (of arguably operability) that makes it easy for everybody installing to install the "feel-good-factor" as well. From what people wrote, there's even a snail mailed DVD, although I cannot confirm its existance.

How obvious all this is - hard to say, but I think, who he who asks will get the helpful pointers at least ;-)

Being thorough I see number of different requirements : 1) Community end user + ought be able to find out how something works and hack on a program without reading openSUSE specific documentation + not have to inquire mail lists, forums etc 2) FOSS checklist - do we have local copy of all the source we use + business wants to be sure, nothing is missing for strategic reasons + FOSS advocate out of principal 3) Convenient License Compliance + online not snail mail + available to all

And if you have ideas how to make things more obvious, I'm sure they are welcome'd by everybody else. There is always somebody who will benefit from it.

...

Can we simply have seperate hosts in URI's for binary download, binary debug & source packages?

Do you think that http://download-sources.opensuse.org/ would be better than http://download.opensuse.org/source/ ? I don't think so.

Actually yes, because I looked at the repo list likely 100 times, before I noticed that first level directory change. I think it's easier to spot differences at start, or end of a URI, but not in the middle. Once you KNOW the top level directory is different, it is obivous, until then it is easy to miss. Even a small html & txt format file ReadmeSources, that's visible when browsing the repo at the i586, i686, x86_64, noarch level explaining location of source, and perhaps reminder of what recommended build tools are, fully satisfies me, because I would not waste time searching in the wrong place. But, fact is, I have not for very long time needed to get & work with distro rpm, in past I would get source rpm, in order to upgrade to newer release of a software package. With Build service, I doubt I need to do this. Maintaining a package, means working within the Build service. Mostly now, it would be external source projects not supplied.

...

What about a way to install all the source of used packages?

I never use it, but I thought there'd be an option for this in the YaST package manager.

If that doesn't work, then check bugzilla and open a bug if needed.

Done https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=560868 It definitely worked in SuSE 6.1!! lol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

2009/12/5 Peter Pöml :

Am 05.12.2009 um 13:46 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

...

They are currently available, the thing is it's easy to look in the wrong place, and they are not where one expects to find them.  May be binary mirrors could simply include ReadmeSource file, which contains the actual URI as a reminder.

Indeed, I thought about the same! I think that would help a lot - it would help all people looking at that place, which is indeed a logical place to look. In addition, since the file would be replicated to the mirrors, the information would spread to those additional places.

Talk to Adrian and Coolo, they can get that arranged I'd think!

Can try knocking up a file and seeing what they say.

Well, what is the use case for end users to get the sources? What do they intend to do with it - how can we help them? Is it just about having the sources installed, out of interest?

As I wrote before, there's the "have all the source available" for strategic security independance reasons, and then the potential community member who's curiosity may draw them into playing with the stuff, finding out how it's put together, or who would like to make a small alteration to something.

...

...

Do you think that http://download-sources.opensuse.org/ would be better than http://download.opensuse.org/source/ ? I don't think so.

Actually yes, because I looked at the repo list likely 100 times, before I noticed that first level directory change.  I think it's easier to spot differences at start, or end of a URI, but not in the middle.  Once you KNOW the top level directory is different, it is obivous, until then it is easy to miss.

I don't think that this would help you; I'm rather convinced of the opposite. If the files are on the same host (the one you are looking at), you have at least a chance to find what you look for. If the files are on a different host, you can stare at the listing as long as you want, to no avail.

Fact is the OP and myself could not find the source rpm's despite looking, and Google was not very helpful either, this is my explanation. When you inspect the software repo's on the machine, in the "Software Repository Manager" there are a list with URLs visible (unfortunately I cannot copy & paste directly so this list is editted here to shorten irrelevant details) : Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/ openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Debug http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Source http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ Simply the brain see's patterns and uses the regularity as a shortcut, which usually works well, in this case I think "http://download.opensuse.org/ ... istribution/11.2/repo/oss/", so it is easy to miss the top level directory diffrerence. Same host, and directories are falling into a pattern. Like this I am sure that the difference stands out more : Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0 http://updates.opensuse.org/11.2 openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Debug http://debug.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Source http://source.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ URLs are clearly different, web browsers train us to check the host part, the difference is not obfuscated by coming in middle of long piece of text. Technically of course, the URI can be written into the appropriate top level form.

By the way, does the functionality take care of updates as well, and keeps the installed source RPMs updated? Otherwise it'd be quite useless (even dangerous). And does it make sure not to overwrite sources that the local user may have modified? If not, it's a pain. And while I'm at asking silly questions, does installation of source RPMs work at all, without each source RPM overwriting files of another source RPM by accident, if not every name is globally unique? Did you know that all files of all source RPMs are installed into a single directory - /usr/src/packages/SOURCES? And the best of it all, you cannot query the RPM database to find out which files belong to installed source RPMs - rpm just throws them at the system, and doesn't take note of what it puts where, as it does for binary RPMs. Yes, it's really primitive :-) Nothing you could seriously work with. But if you want the above mentioned functionality, you'd probably want it working in complete. No?

Presumbably installing a self built RPM changes the vendor. Yes, there are limitations, which is why a tool to grab all the installed rpm's would be better than actually installing them. If updates are made patching GPL progs, the source & build tool files HAVE to be available somewhere on request or we don't have the right to distribute them!

Let's face it, source RPMs are the undeads of a dark past, only there for archival and no developer wants to work with them, because it'd be a total pain.

Until the distro changes to another package management system, or alter's RPM it's what we have. Using OBS and build tools still have to write a spec file, etc etc. At present, in order to package up some developed software, creating a source rpm, and installable binary rpm files, does seem to be a necessary step. Furthermore, a good beginning is often to download source rpm, and get a specfile, written for another distro, if it's present, and then patching for SuSE. Despite limitations I would think the main reason to keep them, is that it is a widely spread format, used by other distro's and with documentation available. Rob -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Le 03/12/2009 11:46, Michal Marek a écrit :

The link says that you can order a source DVD via snail mail. It's about 11.1, but is most likely for 11.2 as well.

and the orders are so few that usually it's shipped free :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org