2009/12/5 Peter Pöml firstname.lastname@example.org:
Am 05.12.2009 um 13:46 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:
They are currently available, the thing is it's easy to look in the wrong place, and they are not where one expects to find them. May be binary mirrors could simply include ReadmeSource file, which contains the actual URI as a reminder.
Indeed, I thought about the same! I think that would help a lot - it would help all people looking at that place, which is indeed a logical place to look. In addition, since the file would be replicated to the mirrors, the information would spread to those additional places.
Talk to Adrian and Coolo, they can get that arranged I'd think!
Can try knocking up a file and seeing what they say.
Well, what is the use case for end users to get the sources? What do they intend to do with it - how can we help them? Is it just about having the sources installed, out of interest?
As I wrote before, there's the "have all the source available" for strategic security independance reasons, and then the potential community member who's curiosity may draw them into playing with the stuff, finding out how it's put together, or who would like to make a small alteration to something.
Do you think that http://download-sources.opensuse.org/ would be better than http://download.opensuse.org/source/ ? I don't think so.
Actually yes, because I looked at the repo list likely 100 times, before I noticed that first level directory change. I think it's easier to spot differences at start, or end of a URI, but not in the middle. Once you KNOW the top level directory is different, it is obivous, until then it is easy to miss.
I don't think that this would help you; I'm rather convinced of the opposite. If the files are on the same host (the one you are looking at), you have at least a chance to find what you look for. If the files are on a different host, you can stare at the listing as long as you want, to no avail.
Fact is the OP and myself could not find the source rpm's despite looking, and Google was not very helpful either, this is my explanation.
When you inspect the software repo's on the machine, in the "Software Repository Manager" there are a list with URLs visible (unfortunately I cannot copy & paste directly so this list is editted here to shorten irrelevant details) :
Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/ openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Debug http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Source http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/
Simply the brain see's patterns and uses the regularity as a shortcut, which usually works well, in this case I think "http://download.opensuse.org/ ... istribution/11.2/repo/oss/", so it is easy to miss the top level directory diffrerence.
Same host, and directories are falling into a pattern. Like this I am sure that the difference stands out more :
Updates for openSUSE 11.2-0 http://updates.opensuse.org/11.2 openSUSE 11.2-0 http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Debug http://debug.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ openSUSE-11.2-Source http://source.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/
URLs are clearly different, web browsers train us to check the host part, the difference is not obfuscated by coming in middle of long piece of text. Technically of course, the URI can be written into the appropriate top level form.
By the way, does the functionality take care of updates as well, and keeps the installed source RPMs updated? Otherwise it'd be quite useless (even dangerous). And does it make sure not to overwrite sources that the local user may have modified? If not, it's a pain. And while I'm at asking silly questions, does installation of source RPMs work at all, without each source RPM overwriting files of another source RPM by accident, if not every name is globally unique? Did you know that all files of all source RPMs are installed into a single directory - /usr/src/packages/SOURCES? And the best of it all, you cannot query the RPM database to find out which files belong to installed source RPMs - rpm just throws them at the system, and doesn't take note of what it puts where, as it does for binary RPMs. Yes, it's really primitive :-) Nothing you could seriously work with. But if you want the above mentioned functionality, you'd probably want it working in complete. No?
Presumbably installing a self built RPM changes the vendor. Yes, there are limitations, which is why a tool to grab all the installed rpm's would be better than actually installing them. If updates are made patching GPL progs, the source & build tool files HAVE to be available somewhere on request or we don't have the right to distribute them!
Let's face it, source RPMs are the undeads of a dark past, only there for archival and no developer wants to work with them, because it'd be a total pain.
Until the distro changes to another package management system, or alter's RPM it's what we have. Using OBS and build tools still have to write a spec file, etc etc.
At present, in order to package up some developed software, creating a source rpm, and installable binary rpm files, does seem to be a necessary step. Furthermore, a good beginning is often to download source rpm, and get a specfile, written for another distro, if it's present, and then patching for SuSE.
Despite limitations I would think the main reason to keep them, is that it is a widely spread format, used by other distro's and with documentation available.