[opensuse-project] openSUSE Members retirement
Hi everybody, as you all know, we have the openSUSE Members, a group of contributors through their sustained and substantial contributors that are eligible to participate in elections, have @opensuse.org mail and other perks. We have now about 600 of them, but as you can see[1] in last openSUSE Board elections only 150 of them voted. This could mean two things - either most of the members are not interested in elections or plenty of them are simply no longer around. I guess the truth is somewhere in middle. This is something we need to know when we take project wide decisions in order to correctly assess the communities interest in the topic. This is a recurring topic that has been discussed at the openSUSE Board Face to Face meeting last year, oSC 15, and on this list several times over the last few years. Taking these into consideration, we (in the board) think it would be a good idea to implement something to help with ensuring our Membership list accurately reflects our current Membership. I have put together a tool which attempts to detect an openSUSE Members activity on mailing lists, OBS, bugzilla, maybe more. This tool will remember when we last saw openSUSE Member on any of those channels and if they doesn't show for 6 months, we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus'. If someone is retired incorrectly, or a 'Member emeritus' returns to the Project and wants a restoration of their voting privilege, they will be unretired without question by the Membership Committee. There are few implementation details to be worked out, so we don't expect this to go live overnight but consider this a "statement of intent" and an explanation of how we expect things to work before we start testing the process. ==== To answer some of the obvious questions: Q: Shouldn't we retire inactive members anyway after measuring and evaluating their activity? A: No, that would be too hard, too subjective and it could bother people that we cannot measure automatically. Automatic measurement is just an indicator that those people are no longer interested, but they might be just working on project aspects we cannot measure. openSUSE Members are members until THEY no longer want to be. We believe this system preserves that principle. Q: Wouldn't it offend active contributors if they will be falsely accused of not being interested? A: I hope not. If period will be long enough (6 months) and if we monitor even mailing lists, people will usually show up somewhere. We intend to word the 'ping' email in a way that is not judgemental, but just makes it clear that we have failed to automatically find evidence of contribution so want to make sure they are still interested in remaining a Member. Q: Doesn't it change the meaning of the openSUSE Member? A: Not really. So far once you got a membership status, it was forever without question. Now it would be forever as long as you are interested. No big change, just a little difference. Q: What if mail with warning gets lost? A: If you lose your membership by accident by losing an e-mail, you can still contact membership committee and as a retired member you will be reinstated immediately without voting/verification that takes time. And you should fix your e-mail in connect.opensuse.org in that case ;-) Q: Will retired members retain their email & IRC cloak perks? A: No, the intention is that retired members will no longer be eligible for @opensuse.org email addresses and Freenode IRC cloaks. [1] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/pluskalm/49480/opensuse-board-ele... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 20/03/2016 12:59, Michal Hrusecky a écrit :
This could mean two things - either most of the members are not interested in elections or plenty of them are simply no longer around. I guess the truth is somewhere in middle. This is something we need to know when we take project wide decisions in order to correctly assess the communities interest in the topic.
yes, good to see it goes on :-) thanks for your involvement :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, I understand why you are doing this, and agree with most parts. However... Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 12:59:10 CET schrieb Michal Hrusecky: ...
Q: Will retired members retain their email & IRC cloak perks?
A: No, the intention is that retired members will no longer be eligible for @opensuse.org email addresses and Freenode IRC cloaks.
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE. I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails). I don't have such strong feelings for the IRC cloak, but keeping them means more advertising for openSUSE whenever someone joins or leaves a channel ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz PS: You'll probably run into some implementation details in your scripting. For example, I'm using different mail addresses in OBS/Bugzilla and mailinglists (even different addresses on some mailinglists). I wish your script good luck in hunting down such cases ;-) --
Wie gesagt, es gibt Gründe für Exchange, die Wartung ist halt aufwendiger. Nöööö nicht wirklich Gründe *ggg Ich schick dir mal unsere Verwaltungs-Damen. Ich bin gespannt wie du deine Sichtweise anbringst. Ich bringe Popcorn mit ;) [> Uwe Drießen und (>>) Björn Meier in postfixbuch-users]
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Hi Christian, On 20 March 2016 at 14:03, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I understand where you are coming from, but with the planned approach being implemented with the philosophy of "you are a member as long as you want to be one" then members only have to worry about the address "going away" if they no longer want to be a member I don't think it's too much to ask that people maintain an interest in the openSUSE Project if they are going to represent us with an @opensuse.org email address -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi Christian,
On 20 March 2016 at 14:03, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I understand where you are coming from, but with the planned approach being implemented with the philosophy of "you are a member as long as you want to be one" then members only have to worry about the address "going away" if they no longer want to be a member
I don't think it's too much to ask that people maintain an interest in the openSUSE Project if they are going to represent us with an @opensuse.org email address -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Guys, What if you are active, but no in the irc channel or do much on mailing? Like me? I am helping with the stuff on Facebook and other actives. Yes, I did vote. -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 20/03/2016 14:15, Chuck Payne a écrit :
What if you are active, but no in the irc channel or do much on mailing? Like me? I am helping with the stuff on Facebook and other actives. Yes, I did vote.
I hope a vote is an activity criteria :-) and I think most member that have an activity other than the ones known should make it clear here, for some more inclusion in the relevant script (facebook, google+, twotter, linkedin...) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Chuck Payne píše v Ne 20. 03. 2016 v 09:15 -0400:
What if you are active, but no in the irc channel or do much on mailing? Like me? I am helping with the stuff on Facebook and other actives. Yes, I did vote.
You don't have to be worried. Even if we miss-track you and you receive the message because you are "not active" it takes YOU to actively ignore the email to be retired. Even if you would get the email, ignore it, find out later we can recreate your membership quite quick. HTH Tom
On 03/20/2016 09:08 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
Hi Christian,
On 20 March 2016 at 14:03, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I understand where you are coming from, but with the planned approach being implemented with the philosophy of "you are a member as long as you want to be one" then members only have to worry about the address "going away" if they no longer want to be a member
I don't think it's too much to ask that people maintain an interest in the openSUSE Project if they are going to represent us with an @opensuse.org email address
It is not too much to ask, IMHO. However, the proposal as a re-run still comes with the ignorance of issues that were raise previously by those that have taken part in these types of discussions over the years. Those concerns were often about timing and yes they can be interpreted as theoretical. However as they keep re-appearing, the issues are real to those that are concerned. Not addressing the issues and moving forward with what is basically unmodified does not help, IMHO. For example, a person that is involved with the project but does not show up in the statistics collected by the tool(s) gets the "hey are you still around" e-mail, so far so good. But lets say that for whatever reason the e-mail gets lost or gets no response for 30 days, then the member is retired, if I understand things correctly. This is not necessarily a big deal as the "just send us a message and your status gets changed back to active with no questions asked" policy makes the reinstatement process easy. However, that does not address the fact that for the person that is actually an active member their @opensuse.org e-mail was deactivated for at least some period of time. Maybe this can be addressed by different time periods and different e-mail notifications. Maybe a retired member gets to keep @opensuse.org for a year and receives multiple messages during that year. I have no idea what the best solution is. I do know from having been part of these conversations a very long time that 30 days is not considered to be sufficient by many people. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Le 20/03/2016 16:32, Robert Schweikert a écrit :
Maybe this can be addressed by different time periods and different e-mail notifications. Maybe a retired member gets to keep @opensuse.org for a year and receives multiple messages during that year.
may be the simple use of @opensuse.org may be on some way be considered as an openSUSE interest? The contrary is not (I don't use the address, but participate), of course, be if I lose my mail opensuse address, it's not a problem jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:03:20 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:
Q: Will retired members retain their email & IRC cloak perks?
A: No, the intention is that retired members will no longer be eligible for @opensuse.org email addresses and Freenode IRC cloaks.
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I don't have such strong feelings for the IRC cloak, but keeping them means more advertising for openSUSE whenever someone joins or leaves a channel ;-)
I would have to agree - leave the e-mail forwarder in place, and the IRC cloak (though I'm with Christian - I've been waiting for several years for my IRC cloak to be set up, but I'm not on IRC that much anyways, so that bothers me a lot less). Breaking an e-mail address that people might use just because they don't care to vote seems excessive. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Jim Henderson - 2:27 21.03.16 wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:03:20 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:
Q: Will retired members retain their email & IRC cloak perks?
A: No, the intention is that retired members will no longer be eligible for @opensuse.org email addresses and Freenode IRC cloaks.
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I don't have such strong feelings for the IRC cloak, but keeping them means more advertising for openSUSE whenever someone joins or leaves a channel ;-)
I would have to agree - leave the e-mail forwarder in place, and the IRC cloak (though I'm with Christian - I've been waiting for several years for my IRC cloak to be set up, but I'm not on IRC that much anyways, so that bothers me a lot less). Breaking an e-mail address that people might use just because they don't care to vote seems excessive.
It is not because they don't care to vote, it is because we haven't seen any activity from them and they did not react to warnings that they will loose it. AFAIK domain registrators does it in similar manner. They send you few email-s and if you don't react, you loose the e-mail. We can send several mails as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 06:56:25AM +0100, Michal Hrusecky wrote:
I would have to agree - leave the e-mail forwarder in place, and the IRC cloak (though I'm with Christian - I've been waiting for several years for my IRC cloak to be set up, but I'm not on IRC that much anyways, so that bothers me a lot less). Breaking an e-mail address that people might use just because they don't care to vote seems excessive.
It is not because they don't care to vote, it is because we haven't seen any activity from them and they did not react to warnings that they will loose it. AFAIK domain registrators does it in similar manner. They send you few email-s and if you don't react, you loose the e-mail. We can send several mails as well.
I'm afraid you miss an important point: completely breaking an address that might appear on many places (forums, mailing list archives, git repositories, package changelogs, ...) is going to hit not only those inactive members (You want to "punish" them? No problem with that.) but potentially everyone else as well (and I do have problem with that). I often find an e-mail address at a few year old commit or a changelog entry and need to contact the author. So I agree that what you proposed would in fact discourage members from actively using the address unless they believe they are going to be active members forever (which, honestly, would mean they are not very realistic]. For domain registrators and commercial e-mail services, this kind of behaviour can be understood. But with opensuse.org, few hundreds of addresses and (IMHO) no extensive traffic? I agree that it's far from necessary. How about a compromise? Some MUA implement a feature that they can reject an e-mail for certain account but send a message like "user ... is no longer active, please use address ... instead" to the sender. And even if they don't, it can be trivially implemented in procmail or similar. I believe this would allow you to make the point but would still allow others to contact those "retired members" (as long as the other address works but that's SEP). Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Good morning most of you seem that you did not read the "we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus" part. If someone is actually using the address he/she will just respond to the mail and no problem. If people won't , for 30 days, then as I understand it they don't use it that much so no problem. I know people can think of that rare situation where an active member is on the hospital for 32 days so they will loose the e-mail because of that, or similar examples but if that is the case I believe the board and the members committee can work this out when this guy will send an email to ask what happened. Let's not spent more time talking about that kind of stuff... The voting situation is something important but here it is mentioned as an example of activeness. If a member does not vote but either is active on other parts of the project or respond to the email will not loose membership and then the community will be able to sit down and look upon the potential problem that only X number of members vote out of the Y number. Now days it seem that 3/4 of the members just do not care about the governess of the project and we have to know if that is really the case so that we(as a board) can try to fix it, because if that is really the case(which I don't think so) it looks ugly. Have fun Kostas 2016-03-21 8:36 GMT+02:00 Michal Kubecek <mkubecek@suse.cz>:
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 06:56:25AM +0100, Michal Hrusecky wrote:
I would have to agree - leave the e-mail forwarder in place, and the IRC cloak (though I'm with Christian - I've been waiting for several years for my IRC cloak to be set up, but I'm not on IRC that much anyways, so that bothers me a lot less). Breaking an e-mail address that people might use just because they don't care to vote seems excessive.
It is not because they don't care to vote, it is because we haven't seen any activity from them and they did not react to warnings that they will loose it. AFAIK domain registrators does it in similar manner. They send you few email-s and if you don't react, you loose the e-mail. We can send several mails as well.
I'm afraid you miss an important point: completely breaking an address that might appear on many places (forums, mailing list archives, git repositories, package changelogs, ...) is going to hit not only those inactive members (You want to "punish" them? No problem with that.) but potentially everyone else as well (and I do have problem with that). I often find an e-mail address at a few year old commit or a changelog entry and need to contact the author. So I agree that what you proposed would in fact discourage members from actively using the address unless they believe they are going to be active members forever (which, honestly, would mean they are not very realistic].
For domain registrators and commercial e-mail services, this kind of behaviour can be understood. But with opensuse.org, few hundreds of addresses and (IMHO) no extensive traffic? I agree that it's far from necessary.
How about a compromise? Some MUA implement a feature that they can reject an e-mail for certain account but send a message like "user ... is no longer active, please use address ... instead" to the sender. And even if they don't, it can be trivially implemented in procmail or similar. I believe this would allow you to make the point but would still allow others to contact those "retired members" (as long as the other address works but that's SEP).
Michal Kubeček
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On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 09:28:36AM +0200, Kostas Koudaras wrote:
most of you seem that you did not read the "we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus" part.
I can't talk for "most of us" but I did read it. However, it doesn't change anything. I still believe what I wrote in the previous mail: that completely disabling the address would be unnecessarily rude - not to the member getting retired but to anyone else. Whatever the reasons the member getting retired would have not to respond to your e-mail. Did you consider for a moment the possibility that someone might realize he's not really an active member anymore, say "fair enough" and ignore the e-mail exactly for the reason he agrees he shouldn't be recognized as a member - all that without realizing that it would cut anyone who finds the @opensuse.org address somewhere from contacting him? And that even if he does realize that, he would have a moral dilemma either to pretend to be an active member (even if he is fully aware he is not) or to make the address completely dead? But do as you wish. After all, I'm not a member and, frankly, I wouldn't even want to become one. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 21/03/2016 08:28, Kostas Koudaras a écrit :
If someone is actually using the address he/she will just respond to the mail and no problem. If people won't , for 30 days,
I have periodic unexpected spam control reset (in thunderbird) and this makes me lose some mails. @opensuse adresses are only redirectors, no mail is stored. For around 600 members, is this too big a load? I don't see any benefit on this. jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 21 maart 2016 09:28:36 CET schreef Kostas Koudaras:
Good morning most of you seem that you did not read the "we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus" part. If someone is actually using the address he/she will just respond to the mail and no problem. If people won't , for 30 days, then as I understand it they don't use it that much so no problem. I know people can think of that rare situation where an active member is on the hospital for 32 days so they will loose the e-mail because of that, or similar examples but if that is the case I believe the board and the members committee can work this out when this guy will send an email to ask what happened. Let's not spent more time talking about that kind of stuff... The voting situation is something important but here it is mentioned as an example of activeness. If a member does not vote but either is active on other parts of the project or respond to the email will not loose membership and then the community will be able to sit down and look upon the potential problem that only X number of members vote out of the Y number. Now days it seem that 3/4 of the members just do not care about the governess of the project and we have to know if that is really the case so that we(as a board) can try to fix it, because if that is really the case(which I don't think so) it looks ugly. Have fun Kostas
Like Kostas says here, the board has the intention to use whatever needed to avoid "retiring" people just like that. The issue we currently have are not the "what-if-s", it's having a list of members where some could have left the openSUSE community ages ago. The intention is to tackle that issue. It was clear to all of us that we should do everything possible to avoid throwing off people from the list indefinitely that want to keep their membership. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 08:07 AM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op maandag 21 maart 2016 09:28:36 CET schreef Kostas Koudaras:
Good morning most of you seem that you did not read the "we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus" part. If someone is actually using the address he/she will just respond to the mail and no problem. If people won't , for 30 days, then as I understand it they don't use it that much so no problem. I know people can think of that rare situation where an active member is on the hospital for 32 days so they will loose the e-mail because of that, or similar examples but if that is the case I believe the board and the members committee can work this out when this guy will send an email to ask what happened. Let's not spent more time talking about that kind of stuff... The voting situation is something important but here it is mentioned as an example of activeness. If a member does not vote but either is active on other parts of the project or respond to the email will not loose membership and then the community will be able to sit down and look upon the potential problem that only X number of members vote out of the Y number. Now days it seem that 3/4 of the members just do not care about the governess of the project and we have to know if that is really the case so that we(as a board) can try to fix it, because if that is really the case(which I don't think so) it looks ugly. Have fun Kostas
Like Kostas says here, the board has the intention to use whatever needed to avoid "retiring" people just like that. The issue we currently have are not the "what-if-s", it's having a list of members where some could have left the openSUSE community ages ago. The intention is to tackle that issue. It was clear to all of us that we should do everything possible to avoid throwing off people from the list indefinitely that want to keep their membership.
That's a fair goal. However, it appears that the proposed solution impacts people in ways that apparently were not taken into consideration when the solution was formulated. Rather than insisting that this is the only way forward and that people shouldn't be so sensitive it might be appropriate to consider the information being provided in the discussion and try to address those by finding other solutions. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 09:28:36 +0200, Kostas Koudaras wrote:
Good morning most of you seem that you did not read the "we will send them an e-mail asking whether they still wants to be a member. A response to that email will automatically count as activity and preserve the Members status. If there is no response within 30 days of the notification, the Member will be 'retired' and be considered a 'Member emeritus" part.
For my part, no, I didn't miss that. I just wonder if the resources are better spent doing something else than chasing down something for a mail forwarder. There's something to be said for goodwill and the benefit of the doubt - especially if we can see that a forwarding address is being used for its intended purpose. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 06:56:25 +0100, Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Jim Henderson - 2:27 21.03.16 wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:03:20 +0100, Christian Boltz wrote:
Q: Will retired members retain their email & IRC cloak perks?
A: No, the intention is that retired members will no longer be eligible for @opensuse.org email addresses and Freenode IRC cloaks.
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I don't have such strong feelings for the IRC cloak, but keeping them means more advertising for openSUSE whenever someone joins or leaves a channel ;-)
I would have to agree - leave the e-mail forwarder in place, and the IRC cloak (though I'm with Christian - I've been waiting for several years for my IRC cloak to be set up, but I'm not on IRC that much anyways, so that bothers me a lot less). Breaking an e-mail address that people might use just because they don't care to vote seems excessive.
It is not because they don't care to vote, it is because we haven't seen any activity from them and they did not react to warnings that they will loose it. AFAIK domain registrators does it in similar manner. They send you few email-s and if you don't react, you loose the e-mail. We can send several mails as well.
Is there a way to see if e-mail is being forwarded to the user using the address? If it is, then it should be considered "in use" and not be deleted. We're not going to make people want to come back if they're using myuser@opensuse.org and it stops working for whatever reason, regardless of attempts to contact. Or do we attempt to contact through the @opensuse.org e-mail address as well? Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 21/03/2016 19:01, Jim Henderson a écrit :
Or do we attempt to contact through the @opensuse.org e-mail address as well?
in my understanding it's the only way intended, but I may be wrong jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion. Cheers, -- Ish Sookun - Advocating openSUSE since 2010 :) - I blog at HACKLOG.mu https://twitter.com/IshSookun ^^ Do you tweet? Try openSUSE, https://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion. Regards, -- Ish Sookun - Advocating openSUSE since 2010 :) - I blog at HACKLOG.mu Try openSUSE, https://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member You will reply Yes And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-03-21 09:40, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected
So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email
That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member
You will reply Yes
And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
I think the point here is the *single* email that some fear might get lost. Make it two or three emails. One with the 30 day period, then one on the day before - and finally a last one "We've closed your account", Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 21 March 2016 at 10:02, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
On 2016-03-21 09:40, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected
So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email
That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member
You will reply Yes
And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
I think the point here is the *single* email that some fear might get lost. Make it two or three emails. One with the 30 day period, then one on the day before - and finally a last one "We've closed your account",
Oh of course, good point, I agree You can do that, can't you Michal? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Richard Brown - 10:50 21.03.16 wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 10:02, Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.com> wrote:
On 2016-03-21 09:40, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected
So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email
That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member
You will reply Yes
And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
I think the point here is the *single* email that some fear might get lost. Make it two or three emails. One with the 30 day period, then one on the day before - and finally a last one "We've closed your account",
Oh of course, good point, I agree
You can do that, can't you Michal?
Sure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 21 maart 2016 10:02:30 CET schreef Andreas Jaeger:
On 2016-03-21 09:40, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected
So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email
That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member
You will reply Yes
And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
I think the point here is the *single* email that some fear might get lost. Make it two or three emails. One with the 30 day period, then one on the day before - and finally a last one "We've closed your account",
Andreas
Thanks for the input. To me personally this is an improvement of what we suggested and put up here for discussion. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 05:02 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 2016-03-21 09:40, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 09:33, Ish Sookun <ish@hacklog.mu> wrote:
Hi all,
On 03/20/2016 05:03 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
So the plan is to break existing mail addresses once someone becomes inactive? That makes it less likely that people actually use their @opensuse.org mail address because "it could go away". That also means less "advertising" for openSUSE.
I agree with Christian. Though I am not much active on the mailing list, forums and even IRC, I do happen to evangelize openSUSE with the resources I got here in Mauritius. The opensuse.org email alias is one of the "tools" that comes handy when promoting openSUSE, especially while contacting local institutions (e.g universities) to host events.
I'd propose to keep the mail address even for retired members (unless someone actively asks to drop it, or it starts bouncing mails).
I go along Christian's suggestion.
But why? you are an active member and want to remain one, you just have the misfortune of your contributions being unlikely of being automatically detected
So with the planned procedure, you'll receive an email
That email will ask if you're still interested in being a member
You will reply Yes
And you wouldn't become a retired member, you'd keep having your @opensuse.org email address...nothing would change
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
I think the point here is the *single* email that some fear might get lost. Make it two or three emails. One with the 30 day period, then one on the day before - and finally a last one "We've closed your account",
e-mail is asynchronous by design, some mails just don't get answered for more than 30 days. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
I want to emphasize the "Link Rot" aspect of disabling an email address. It has been mentioned, but doesn't seem to be generating any awareness of the problem it represents. Email addresses are not just used in store and forward communications systems. They are used in mailing list and forum communication. They are also in design, training, use and standards documents and bug reports. They appear in old blog and news articles. It is not inappropriate for someone looking for additional historical information to attempt communication with a "retired" participant. My former colleagues at my previous employers know where to find me. How do you view the side effect of disabling the forwarding of email sent to an @openSUSE.org address on these uses? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 10:45 AM, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
I want to emphasize the "Link Rot" aspect of disabling an email address. It has been mentioned, but doesn't seem to be generating any awareness of the problem it represents.
Email addresses are not just used in store and forward communications systems. They are used in mailing list and forum communication. They are also in design, training, use and standards documents and bug reports. They appear in old blog and news articles. It is not inappropriate for someone looking for additional historical information to attempt communication with a "retired" participant. My former colleagues at my previous employers know where to find me.
How do you view the side effect of disabling the forwarding of email sent to an @openSUSE.org address on these uses?
Yes, I also think this is a problem and IMHO a very undesirable side effect of the decisions made at the Board F2F meeting. Michal K., I think, provided a very nice description of the problem. However the reaction has been that those participating in the discussion have been accused of not reading the meeting minutes and follow up messages. Additionally there appears to be the insistence that there is not really an impact by the coming changes. Michal K. even proposed a potential solution that would allow the "safe guarding" of @opensuse.org for only active members but this also appears to be conveniently ignored. The more or less logical conclusion from this would be to not use @opensuse.org if you have one, as it may become disabled at some point in the future and then people have no way of contacting you. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Robert Schweikert píše v Po 21. 03. 2016 v 11:01 -0400:
On 03/21/2016 10:45 AM, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
I want to emphasize the "Link Rot" aspect of disabling an email address. It has been mentioned, but doesn't seem to be generating any awareness of the problem it represents.
Email addresses are not just used in store and forward communications systems. They are used in mailing list and forum communication. They are also in design, training, use and standards documents and bug reports. They appear in old blog and news articles. It is not inappropriate for someone looking for additional historical information to attempt communication with a "retired" participant. My former colleagues at my previous employers know where to find me.
How do you view the side effect of disabling the forwarding of email sent to an @openSUSE.org address on these uses?
Yes, I also think this is a problem and IMHO a very undesirable side effect of the decisions made at the Board F2F meeting. Michal K., I think, provided a very nice description of the problem.
However the reaction has been that those participating in the discussion have been accused of not reading the meeting minutes and follow up messages. Additionally there appears to be the insistence that there is not really an impact by the coming changes.
Michal K. even proposed a potential solution that would allow the "safe guarding" of @opensuse.org for only active members but this also appears to be conveniently ignored.
The more or less logical conclusion from this would be to not use @opensuse.org if you have one, as it may become disabled at some point in the future and then people have no way of contacting you.
Later, Robert
I still find your complaint about "suddenly loosing contact" quite moot. If the person won't react in couple of months on request to confirm his/her presence what makes you think such person would react on any other mail sent to that address. Most of the projects actually do the same if they retire somebody. Think of it like company email. You get one while you "work" on the thing and if you decide to move on the email changes. Or did any of your former employers let you keep your email. Or when I think of it did your university let you keep your student email? Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com". Tom
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 04:12:36PM +0100, Tomas Chvatal wrote:
Think of it like company email. You get one while you "work" on the thing and if you decide to move on the email changes. Or did any of your former employers let you keep your email. Or when I think of it did your university let you keep your student email?
This is (one of) the reason(s) why many developers prefer to use their private e-mail for their contributions.
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com".
... which is exactly what I proposed in my first response. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Tomas Chvatal <tchvatal@suse.cz> wrote:
I still find your complaint about "suddenly loosing contact" quite moot. If the person won't react in couple of months on request to confirm his/her presence what makes you think such person would react on any other mail sent to that address.
That person once was generous enough to significantly contribute to openSUSE such that s/he was rewarded with the use of a forwarding address with the @openSUSE.org domain name. That person may still be generous enough to respond to a query about a contribution that is now the subject of research. If they don't have that type of time, most Mail User Agent software has the ability to filter to the SPAM bucket anything arriving from a particular address. By the openSUSE project supporting the forwarded address, we allow them to maintain a relationship with openSUSE if THEY wish or cut off that relationship if THEY wish. THEY may appreciate that respectful approach.
Most of the projects actually do the same if they retire somebody.
I'm OK with other projects doing as they choose. I'm just trying to make sure the openSUSE project makes a decision based on all the information available.
Think of it like company email. You get one while you "work" on the thing and if you decide to move on the email changes. Or did any of your former employers let you keep your email.
I separated out the following because it illustrates my point:
Or when I think of it did your university let you keep your student email?
There are many higher level institutions of learning that routinely convert a student's locally served email address to a forwarding address maintained by the alum. They consider this an easy investment in maintaining that student as part of the Alumni (read Donor) community. All those that possess an @openSUSE.org forwarding address were Donors once. Maybe they will be one again if we maintain a respectful appreciation of their efforts.
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com".
Which Michal has reminded us was one of his first proposals. I recognize, however, this will require administrator hours and cpu cycles, perhaps only a few of each, to maintain. So now that the costs of cutting off a communication channel are sufficiently visible, can we get a concurrence from the Infrastructure maintenance personnel that it is not a major burden and the forwarding addresses, at least, will never be discarded? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
PatrickD Garvey wrote:
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com".
Which Michal has reminded us was one of his first proposals. I recognize, however, this will require administrator hours and cpu cycles, perhaps only a few of each, to maintain.
It's pretty much what postfix::relocated_maps is for, and that can easily be picked up from a database. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 11:12 AM, Tomas Chvatal wrote:
Robert Schweikert píše v Po 21. 03. 2016 v 11:01 -0400:
On 03/21/2016 10:45 AM, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
I want to emphasize the "Link Rot" aspect of disabling an email address. It has been mentioned, but doesn't seem to be generating any awareness of the problem it represents.
Email addresses are not just used in store and forward communications systems. They are used in mailing list and forum communication. They are also in design, training, use and standards documents and bug reports. They appear in old blog and news articles. It is not inappropriate for someone looking for additional historical information to attempt communication with a "retired" participant. My former colleagues at my previous employers know where to find me.
How do you view the side effect of disabling the forwarding of email sent to an @openSUSE.org address on these uses?
Yes, I also think this is a problem and IMHO a very undesirable side effect of the decisions made at the Board F2F meeting. Michal K., I think, provided a very nice description of the problem.
However the reaction has been that those participating in the discussion have been accused of not reading the meeting minutes and follow up messages. Additionally there appears to be the insistence that there is not really an impact by the coming changes.
Michal K. even proposed a potential solution that would allow the "safe guarding" of @opensuse.org for only active members but this also appears to be conveniently ignored.
The more or less logical conclusion from this would be to not use @opensuse.org if you have one, as it may become disabled at some point in the future and then people have no way of contacting you.
Later, Robert
I still find your complaint about "suddenly loosing contact" quite moot. If the person won't react in couple of months on request to confirm
Well the last time I checked 30 days did not cover a couple of months.
his/her presence what makes you think such person would react on any other mail sent to that address.
Well it goes back to what was described already in the thread. The person is in the dilemma of either "claiming to be still interested", even if they are not just to be reachable or just dropping it and thus become unreachable via @opensuse.org. I don't think we should be so arrogant as to presume that a person that no longer actively contributes to openSUSE, and thus does not respond to the "are you still interested" message will not respond to other e-mail.
Most of the projects actually do the same if they retire somebody. Think of it like company email. You get one while you "work" on the thing and if you decide to move on the email changes.
Yes, that part is rather obvious.
Or did any of your former employers let you keep your email. Or when I think of it did your university let you keep your student email?
I don't but many schools do let students keep their addresses. You can still reach Ted at his @mit.edu address for example.
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com".
That was Michal K.'s suggestion. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
ma., 21.03.2016 kl. 12.52 -0400, skrev Robert Schweikert:
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com". That was Michal K.'s suggestion.
Later, Robert
Please do not go down this route, as that would give out my personal email adr to anyone spamming my @opensuse.org adr. Should I ever stop packaging for openSUSE I'd prefer not to get email via that forward at all, and sure as heck not being contacted on my personal email by anyone able to look in .changes of package foo. /Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Bjørn Lie wrote:
ma., 21.03.2016 kl. 12.52 -0400, skrev Robert Schweikert:
Also we can be really really nice and actually keep the aliases on autoreply that would say something like "Hello this guy is no longer with us, last known email address is bla@example.com".
That was Michal K.'s suggestion.
Later, Robert
Please do not go down this route, as that would give out my personal email adr to anyone spamming my @opensuse.org adr.
Initially I was with Robert Schweikert, but I'm going to side with Bjørn - please just delete and don't re-issue any expired @opensuse.org addresses. Email addresses come and go, people know they don't last forever and links found in old material will likely be invalid. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 21.03.2016 13:22, Robert Schweikert wrote:
e-mail is asynchronous by design, some mails just don't get answered for more than 30 days.
Just to send an example: I'm reading this "entertaining" mailthread right now. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 12:40 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
Read through the whole thread. I initially thought it would be a strict automatic procedure. Thanks for clarifying, Richard. Cheers, -- Ish Sookun - Advocating openSUSE since 2010 :) - I blog at HACKLOG.mu Try openSUSE, https://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 21/03/2016 09:40, Richard Brown a écrit :
And if they no longer want to be a member, I do not see why they should still be able to represent the project with an @opensuse.org email address
can we monitor the use of the @openSUSE alias? I mean only know if it's used, not the traffic content thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Op maandag 21 maart 2016 09:40:04 CET schreef Richard Brown:
People will only be retired if they choose they no longer want to be a member
The essential part of what was decided. Glad to read all the concern here though. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Michal Hrusecky <Michal.Hrusecky@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi everybody,
as you all know, we have the openSUSE Members, a group of contributors through their sustained and substantial contributors that are eligible to participate in elections, have @opensuse.org mail and other perks. We have now about 600 of them, but as you can see[1] in last openSUSE Board elections only 150 of them voted.
If you expect everyone subscribed to opensuse-project to be able to read [1], you need to loosen its permissions. I believe it is restricted to opensuse members only. I do know I can't read it.
Q: What if mail with warning gets lost?
A: If you lose your membership by accident by losing an e-mail, you can still contact membership committee and as a retired member you will be reinstated immediately without voting/verification that takes time. And you should fix your e-mail in connect.opensuse.org in that case ;-)
According to https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-03/msg00039.html, "AI: Michal is retiring connect.opensuse.org". If so, where will opensuse member mailing addresses be maintained?
[1] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/pluskalm/49480/opensuse-board-ele... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
PatrickD Garvey - 17:04 20.03.16 wrote:
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Michal Hrusecky <Michal.Hrusecky@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hi everybody,
as you all know, we have the openSUSE Members, a group of contributors through their sustained and substantial contributors that are eligible to participate in elections, have @opensuse.org mail and other perks. We have now about 600 of them, but as you can see[1] in last openSUSE Board elections only 150 of them voted.
If you expect everyone subscribed to opensuse-project to be able to read [1], you need to loosen its permissions. I believe it is restricted to opensuse members only. I do know I can't read it.
No it isn't. I t is public mailing list with public online archive as you pointed out. Voting is restricted to the members and that is correct, the issue we are trying to solve is that we have plenty of members on the paper, but quite some of them are probably not around anymore.
Q: What if mail with warning gets lost?
A: If you lose your membership by accident by losing an e-mail, you can still contact membership committee and as a retired member you will be reinstated immediately without voting/verification that takes time. And you should fix your e-mail in connect.opensuse.org in that case ;-)
According to https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-03/msg00039.html, "AI: Michal is retiring connect.opensuse.org". If so, where will opensuse member mailing addresses be maintained?
There is another action item to investigate/write membership app. So connect is not being retired till we will find and setup replacement for voting, membership and e-mails management.
[1] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/pluskalm/49480/opensuse-board-ele... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, I keep On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Michal Hrusecky <Michal.Hrusecky@opensuse.org> wrote:
Q: What if mail with warning gets lost?
A: If you lose your membership by accident by losing an e-mail, you can still contact membership committee and as a retired member you will be reinstated immediately without voting/verification that takes time. And you should fix your e-mail in connect.opensuse.org in that case ;-)
Now it removes (temporary?) my openSUSE Member status, even though I did send/reply the opensuse-bot@opensuse.org mail twice (through my @opensuse.org and andisugandi@gmail.com mail addresses). How to contact membership committee? Thanks in advance -- Andi Sugandi. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2017-05-27 at 12:44 +0700, Andi Sugandi wrote:
Hi all,
I keep
On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Michal Hrusecky <Michal.Hrusecky@opensuse.org> wrote:
Q: What if mail with warning gets lost?
A: If you lose your membership by accident by losing an e-mail, you can still contact membership committee and as a retired member you will be reinstated immediately without voting/verification that takes time. And you should fix your e-mail in connect.opensuse.org in that case ;-)
Now it removes (temporary?) my openSUSE Member status, even though I did send/reply the opensuse-bot@opensuse.org mail twice (through my @opensuse.org and andisugandi@gmail.com mail addresses).
How to contact membership committee?
Hi By sending email to membership-officials@opensuse.org [1] - I have to admit that I am surprised by such question from openSUSE member though. Cheers Martin 1. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (19)
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Andi Sugandi -
Andreas Jaeger -
Bjørn Lie -
Christian Boltz -
Chuck Payne -
Ish Sookun -
jdd -
Jim Henderson -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
Kostas Koudaras -
Martin Pluskal -
Michal Hrusecky -
Michal Kubecek -
PatrickD Garvey -
Per Jessen -
Richard Brown -
Robert Schweikert -
Stefan Seyfried -
Tomas Chvatal