On 29/05/18 00:20, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 28/05/18 07:51 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...

This brings us to the next issue, posting bugs / bug reports on mailing lists rather then bugzilla. This is a practice we would like to see stopped and we will be gently reminding people if they continue posting bugs on mailinglists, this especially includes if a package / application breaks when updating tumbleweed / leap (including beta's).

I understand your concern. What you are complaining about is people too lazy or disinclined to use bugzilla to report valid bugs.

However ...

...

We would ask that you search for your issue prior to reporting

Not just on bugzilla but ...

I'm sure there are users less experienced than me who are unsure of themselves and unsure if what they see as something wrong is a bug or their own mistake. The mistake may be wrong assumptions about what is supposed to happen or it may be misconfiguration rather than a bug.

My experience has been that reporting my own mistakes and misconfiguration on bugzilla simply ends up in a WONTFIX. It may be that the developer didn't have time or patience to explain what *I* was doing wrong and that there really wasn't a bug, or it may be that (s)he didn't want to bothered tracing why this bug happens, what fringe/test-case brings it up.

And perhaps I'm not alone ...

So before reporting to bugzilla I ask on the list "Is this my mistake?"

To date, a better than 90% of the cases has been "MY mistake and guidance, often from people that I don't think would be opensuse-support@o.o. And yes, I've been referred to the kde- list and the btrfs- list and the xfs- list and the people there have always been helpful in telling me what I was doing wrong.

MY opinion is that using bugzilla as a 'first resort' will result in a lot of <strike>highly pissed off</strike> irritated developers as well as lots of even more <strike>highly pissed off</strike> irritated users.

Yes, opensuse-support@o.o will work, *IF* you publicise the hell out of it and keep telling people who subscribe, naturally enough, to the main and other lists. Perhaps you need a sign-up notice a monthly notice, such as the sort that Mailman can send, telling users about opensuse-support@o.o and the other lists, kde-, btrfs-, xfs- and so on, and to take specific problems there.

The biggest % of emails we see at the moment in the factory mailing list are along the lines of I did a zypper dup package XYZ broke, these are the sorts of things we would like to see bugs raised for. If you are setting up something for the first time or doing something different are are wondering if the issue is caused by your setup or a bug in the program then opensuse-support@ is the right place to ask your questions. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B