-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-22 22:23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The panels are a pain, I can not add applets to them.

Nope, you install extensions. <https://extensions.gnome.org/>

How? Point me to a local help file on my computer. If there is none, it is badly designed. Gnome 3 should put and advert on first use on how/where to find help for use of the new interface, not expect me to find everything by trial and errors or asking in mail lists or forums. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7zpKYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UqswCaAyM2oOAgDRBckMIdqhmcnM4p jBcAn3LFFeibEzver0Hdb9QsNH7bFlSk =bHJ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-22 22:59, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:44 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2011-12-22 22:23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

Gnome 3 should put and advert on first use on how/where to find help for use of the new interface, not expect me to find everything by trial and errors or asking in mail lists or forums.

Seriously? Seriously?! I think you're trolling.

Absolutely. And you insulting.

<http://www.gnome.org/> How hard is that to find - and one of the links is "Discover GNOME3" <http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/> You can kick back and watch the videos!

My laptop (the only machine that has G3 now) has no internet all the time. Why should I? Help should be local. I never browsed the Microsoft site to know how to use Windows, there is a local help system. I never needed to go to the gnome site to learn how to use G2, it was intuitive. On G3 F1 does nothing. Videos are in English. What if I don't speak fluent English? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7zsDgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XzYwCgixk/gKpWQ3T5MKGH6nUMdpQr 2fcAnjKqFiwidXfs6rRMpaQDQoRGTkBl =pmDQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, December 22, 2011 16:23:13 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2011-12-22 12:29, Albert wrote:

...

"It is like Gnome Desktop Environment developers are now working against Linux... Pure Gnome3 is just a BIG & major regress on Linux desktop, it makes Linux desktop productivity more difficult and bring useless features. Even the bars are frozen, you cannot interact, neither visual customize or configure anything.

The panels are a pain, I can not add applets to them.

Nope, you install extensions. <https://extensions.gnome.org/> Do note that extensions are a pretty lousy solution for anyone who doesn't have a good internet connection (eg many of our users in Asia and South America). I hope we can provide them with a selection of extensions by default in our next release. Especially some which bring back a more familiar (and efficient*) desktop metaphor.

*yes, I'm one of those who can't live without a decent taskbar

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 16:38 +0100, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 12:44 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

...

<https://extensions.gnome.org/> Do note that extensions are a pretty lousy solution for anyone who doesn't have a good internet connection (eg many of our users in Asia and South America). I hope we can provide them with a selection of extensions by default in our next release. Especially some which bring back a more familiar (and efficient*) desktop metaphor.

*yes, I'm one of those who can't live without a decent taskbar

Use your favorite package manager and install any of the packaged extensions (oh no! They come from the internet too! Not sure what we just won;

Send Jos a Geeko! :-)

installing them all by default does not strike me as the right approach).

I agree. That's one thing I didn't like about installing Cinnamon, all these extensions got installed by default. A better approach, if one can be designed, is to have some sort of "Extension Center" (???) where extensions are stored but disabled and users can easily enable/configure via GUI interaction. (Sadly, some awesome extensions require users to go into a file to edit for configuration.) Bryen

Dominique

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On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 10:54 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 16:38 +0100, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

...

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 12:44 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

...

<https://extensions.gnome.org/> Do note that extensions are a pretty lousy solution for anyone who doesn't have a good internet connection (eg many of our users in Asia and South America). I hope we can provide them with a selection of extensions by default in our next release. Especially some which bring back a more familiar (and efficient*) desktop metaphor. *yes, I'm one of those who can't live without a decent taskbar Use your favorite package manager and install any of the packaged extensions (oh no! They come from the internet too! Not sure what we just won; installing them all by default does not strike me as the right approach).

+1 I'm not a fan of jamming in a bunch of extensions. But they can be toggled on an off with gnome-tweak-tool

Not all of those extensions are tweak-tool-able. And the downside with tweak-tool is many people still don't know about it. :-/ Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 17:51 +0100, K. Dennis Leyendecker wrote:

On 18.01.2012 16:57, Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

...

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 10:54 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 16:38 +0100, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

...

On Wed, 2012-01-18 at 12:44 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:

...

...

<https://extensions.gnome.org/> Do note that extensions are a pretty lousy solution for anyone who doesn't have a good internet connection (eg many of our users in Asia and South America). I hope we can provide them with a selection of extensions by default in our next release. Especially some which bring back a more familiar (and efficient*) desktop metaphor. *yes, I'm one of those who can't live without a decent taskbar Use your favorite package manager and install any of the packaged extensions (oh no! They come from the internet too! Not sure what we just won; installing them all by default does not strike me as the right approach).

+1 I'm not a fan of jamming in a bunch of extensions. But they can be toggled on an off with gnome-tweak-tool

Not all of those extensions are tweak-tool-able. And the downside with tweak-tool is many people still don't know about it. :-/

Then it would be to time to make some serious noise about it, right ;-)

Seriously, I'm not that deep into GNOME nor am I in the position to decide something, so I can only suggest. I'd deliver GNOME 3.4 (this will be the release for 12.2, right?) with tweak-tool and a bookmark of extensions.gnome.org in Firefox.

I do think an integrated way of providing the extensions would be better than a bookmark. Sure, bookmark would be easy, no design required, no bugs, etc. But a nice integrated GUI functionality in the settings menu would be just what the doctor ordered for a truly happy GNOME user experience that appeases more people than currently today. I only wish I had design expertise so that I would do more than just talk the talk here and actually walk the walk. :-)

Why? There several people who are really happy with GNOME 3, and they might want to make their user experience even better, so they could have a quick look at extensions.g.o.

In my observation, as one who was also originally unhappy with GNOME 3, the unhappiness is eliminated with the beauty of the extensions. :-) The integrated delivery of extensions in a nice graphical way would do so much to enhance the experience plus lessen the noise of the anti-GNOME 3'ers and give developers and other defenders more time to focus on actual enhancements rather than responding to mail after mail and article after article out there. I think time is truly wasted on the arguments when the function is already there, just not the form.

There also people who aren't that happy with GNOME 3 but want to use it. For them, e.g.o would be the place of choice to configure GNOME 3 to their needs.

In the end both sides won.

@Jos Yes, slow internet connections are a problem. There's even the possibility to provide extensions via DVD, but this would require a bunch of $$$, infrastructure etc, so it would might be much more effort then it should be.

...

Bryen

-- Kim Leyendecker, openSUSE Wiki Team GPG Key: 664265369547B825 | leyendecker@opensuse.org http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds

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Le mercredi 18 janvier 2012, à 17:51 +0100, K. Dennis Leyendecker a écrit :

On 18.01.2012 16:57, Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

...

Not all of those extensions are tweak-tool-able. And the downside with tweak-tool is many people still don't know about it. :-/

Then it would be to time to make some serious noise about it, right ;-)

Seriously, I'm not that deep into GNOME nor am I in the position to decide something, so I can only suggest. I'd deliver GNOME 3.4 (this will be the release for 12.2, right?) with tweak-tool and a bookmark of extensions.gnome.org in Firefox.

We already ship gnome-tweak-tool by default. And adding a bookmark to Firefox is certainly doable -- just file a bug and start the discussion there. Vincent PS: can we move this thread to a more appropriate mailing list? -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:57:58 -0600, Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

Not all of those extensions are tweak-tool-able. And the downside with tweak-tool is many people still don't know about it. :-/

Indeed, some of those functions should really be in the standard settings applet. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-22 22:23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The panels are a pain, I can not add applets to them.

Nope, you install extensions. <https://extensions.gnome.org/>

How? Point me to a local help file on my computer. If there is none, it is badly designed. Gnome 3 should put and advert on first use on how/where to find help for use of the new interface, not expect me to find everything by trial and errors or asking in mail lists or forums. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7zpKYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UqswCaAyM2oOAgDRBckMIdqhmcnM4p jBcAn3LFFeibEzver0Hdb9QsNH7bFlSk =bHJ0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-22 22:59, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 22:44 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2011-12-22 22:23, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

Gnome 3 should put and advert on first use on how/where to find help for use of the new interface, not expect me to find everything by trial and errors or asking in mail lists or forums.

Seriously? Seriously?! I think you're trolling.

Absolutely. And you insulting.

<http://www.gnome.org/> How hard is that to find - and one of the links is "Discover GNOME3" <http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/> You can kick back and watch the videos!

My laptop (the only machine that has G3 now) has no internet all the time. Why should I? Help should be local. I never browsed the Microsoft site to know how to use Windows, there is a local help system. I never needed to go to the gnome site to learn how to use G2, it was intuitive. On G3 F1 does nothing. Videos are in English. What if I don't speak fluent English? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7zsDgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XzYwCgixk/gKpWQ3T5MKGH6nUMdpQr 2fcAnjKqFiwidXfs6rRMpaQDQoRGTkBl =pmDQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org