[opensuse-project] How to improve the openSUSE experience [Was: independence]
Edit: I'm cross-posting my comments as I feel that this deserves a thread of its own, independent from the originating thread which was on another issue... Couple of my observations on how we as a community can make openSUSE better:- (Disclaimer: This is for the normal user and not the expert) 1. Simplify zypper: The whole upgrading procedure where patches and packages are treated separately have to be streamlined. It is a tad confusing for the normal user. Mandriva provides a very elegant and neat way to upgrade the system through their mdkonline applet. Something we should look at as well 2. Package Management through YaST: The Qt version rocks, but the GNOME version simply is sucks. 3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth 4. Simplify the repository structure. There are too many confusing ones, Factory, STABLE, UNSTABLE etc...the KDE guys are working on simplifying it...I guess. GNOME needs simplification. Many mistake Ubuntu to have the best user experience distro....but that tag actually belongs to Mandriva, which still has managed to keep itself alive (I don't know how longer though). Some of their tools are very good like msec (Mandriva Security), menu layout for GNOME and KDE which is unique and very consistent. We could take some cues from there and add the requisite polish on top of it. I'm sure some of these suggestions will be flamed...but I'd appreciate if this not be taken as criticism, but as suggestions to greater improve the distro that we all like. -Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote:
Edit: I'm cross-posting my comments as I feel that this deserves a thread of its own, independent from the originating thread which was on another issue...
Couple of my observations on how we as a community can make openSUSE better:- (Disclaimer: This is for the normal user and not the expert)
1. Simplify zypper: The whole upgrading procedure where patches and packages are treated separately have to be streamlined. It is a tad confusing for the normal user. Mandriva provides a very elegant and neat way to upgrade the system through their mdkonline applet. Something we should look at as well
2. Package Management through YaST: The Qt version rocks, but the GNOME version simply is sucks.
3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth
4. Simplify the repository structure. There are too many confusing ones, Factory, STABLE, UNSTABLE etc...the KDE guys are working on simplifying it...I guess. GNOME needs simplification.
Many mistake Ubuntu to have the best user experience distro....but that tag actually belongs to Mandriva, which still has managed to keep itself alive (I don't know how longer though). Some of their tools are very good like msec (Mandriva Security), menu layout for GNOME and KDE which is unique and very consistent. We could take some cues from there and add the requisite polish on top of it.
I'm sure some of these suggestions will be flamed...but I'd appreciate if this not be taken as criticism, but as suggestions to greater improve the distro that we all like.
-Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Please stop creating a new thread for this on opensuse-project. File individual requests for this in FATE and follow up with individual fate entries. Or better assign some of them to yourself and start working on them. As henne says often, It is YOUR project. By discussing this in opensuse-project alone, none of the items are ever going to be implemented. We already have enough traffic on opensuse-project and I dont want to see new feature requests also discussed here. Thank You. -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Sankar P <sankar.curiosity@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote:
Edit: I'm cross-posting my comments as I feel that this deserves a thread of its own, independent from the originating thread which was on another issue...
Couple of my observations on how we as a community can make openSUSE better:- (Disclaimer: This is for the normal user and not the expert)
1. Simplify zypper: The whole upgrading procedure where patches and packages are treated separately have to be streamlined. It is a tad confusing for the normal user. Mandriva provides a very elegant and neat way to upgrade the system through their mdkonline applet. Something we should look at as well
2. Package Management through YaST: The Qt version rocks, but the GNOME version simply is sucks.
3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth
4. Simplify the repository structure. There are too many confusing ones, Factory, STABLE, UNSTABLE etc...the KDE guys are working on simplifying it...I guess. GNOME needs simplification.
Many mistake Ubuntu to have the best user experience distro....but that tag actually belongs to Mandriva, which still has managed to keep itself alive (I don't know how longer though). Some of their tools are very good like msec (Mandriva Security), menu layout for GNOME and KDE which is unique and very consistent. We could take some cues from there and add the requisite polish on top of it.
I'm sure some of these suggestions will be flamed...but I'd appreciate if this not be taken as criticism, but as suggestions to greater improve the distro that we all like.
-Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Please stop creating a new thread for this on opensuse-project.
File individual requests for this in FATE and follow up with individual fate entries. Or better assign some of them to yourself and start working on them. As henne says often, It is YOUR project. By discussing this in opensuse-project alone, none of the items are ever going to be implemented.
We already have enough traffic on opensuse-project and I dont want to see new feature requests also discussed here.
Thank You.
-- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com
If I could, I would implement them. Unfortunately, I'm not a programmer/hacker. I am not an openSUSE decision maker, I am merely an end-user. So now, how do you propose I solve this by just adding them to FATE? Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Sankar P <sankar.curiosity@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Anshul Jain <anshulajain@gmail.com> wrote:
Edit: I'm cross-posting my comments as I feel that this deserves a thread of its own, independent from the originating thread which was on another issue...
Couple of my observations on how we as a community can make openSUSE better:- (Disclaimer: This is for the normal user and not the expert)
1. Simplify zypper: The whole upgrading procedure where patches and packages are treated separately have to be streamlined. It is a tad confusing for the normal user. Mandriva provides a very elegant and neat way to upgrade the system through their mdkonline applet. Something we should look at as well
2. Package Management through YaST: The Qt version rocks, but the GNOME version simply is sucks.
3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth
4. Simplify the repository structure. There are too many confusing ones, Factory, STABLE, UNSTABLE etc...the KDE guys are working on simplifying it...I guess. GNOME needs simplification.
Many mistake Ubuntu to have the best user experience distro....but that tag actually belongs to Mandriva, which still has managed to keep itself alive (I don't know how longer though). Some of their tools are very good like msec (Mandriva Security), menu layout for GNOME and KDE which is unique and very consistent. We could take some cues from there and add the requisite polish on top of it.
I'm sure some of these suggestions will be flamed...but I'd appreciate if this not be taken as criticism, but as suggestions to greater improve the distro that we all like.
-Anshul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org
Please stop creating a new thread for this on opensuse-project.
File individual requests for this in FATE and follow up with individual fate entries. Or better assign some of them to yourself and start working on them. As henne says often, It is YOUR project. By discussing this in opensuse-project alone, none of the items are ever going to be implemented.
We already have enough traffic on opensuse-project and I dont want to see new feature requests also discussed here.
Thank You.
-- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com
If I could, I would implement them. Unfortunately, I'm not a programmer/hacker. I am not an openSUSE decision maker, I am merely an end-user. So now, how do you propose I solve this by just adding them to FATE?
How many of your previous issues are solved by reporting in opensuse-project ? All I am asking is, instead of reporting in _this_ (project) mailing list, report it in fate, attend the individual team meetings (#opensuse-gnome irc meeting ) and ask it there. Try to convince people there on why this is important. It will make things happen faster, afaics, Thanks. -- Sankar P http://psankar.blogspot.com P.S: My quota of 2 mails per day, for mental peace, gets over with this :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 10 June 2010 12:16:15 Anshul Jain wrote:
Edit: I'm cross-posting my comments as I feel that this deserves a thread of its own, independent from the originating thread which was on another issue...
On Thursday 10 June 2010 10:48:42 you wrote:
<snip>
Couple of my observations on how we as a community can make openSUSE better:- (Disclaimer: This is for the normal user and not the expert)
Well, the overall solution needs to address both user types, so we don't want to become myopic if we can avoid it.
1. Simplify zypper: The whole upgrading procedure where patches and packages are treated separately have to be streamlined. It is a tad confusing for the normal user. Mandriva provides a very elegant and neat way to upgrade the system through their mdkonline applet. Something we should look at as well
I do think that is the intent of Yast2's package manager. Zypper isn't really designed for the "normal" user which was the thrust of your initial statement :) So, I think the effort might be better spent on the module within the Yast2 environment so that it better interfaces with the features in zypper so that it gives the control that zypper offers without the complexity of a CLI. IOW, I don't advocate another GUI which is mostly the only way to simplify zypper for a "normal" user, don'tcha think?
2. Package Management through YaST: The Qt version rocks, but the GNOME version simply is sucks.
I tend to agree that one or the other should be chosen. The Qt version is much more intuitive and flexible, as you state. It does use the Qt library, which I'm pretty sure the Gnome folks would never agree to, BUT, they could import the look and feel into the GTK library, eg, to have the same feature and menu structure but with the GNOME look and feel interface. Then, both KDE and GNOME and other DE's that use one or the other as a basis, would all have the same basic look and feel and only the "window-dressing" aspects would be different, eg, themed items.
3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth
I don't like the 'vomit green' theme too much either :) but having no experience with Plymouth (except as an automobile), I'm open to education.
4. Simplify the repository structure. There are too many confusing ones, Factory, STABLE, UNSTABLE etc...the KDE guys are working on simplifying it...I guess. GNOME needs simplification.
This is a pet peeve...More fundamentally, "Official vs Unofficial". Many times I've been told that I have to use some OBS this or that repo to overcome some bug or omission in the basic distro that won't be changed until the next release, if at all, BUT, if I do, I am no longer running a "Supported" distro because it is running unsupported software even though from a repo that is in the OBS and recommended by the Bugzilla repair dev as a fix. The confusion of Stable, Unstable, KDE etc, is just an added layer of confusion because really, NONE of those are "Official", only OSS is official with Non-OSS being quasi-official but they won't/can't change anything there.
Many mistake Ubuntu to have the best user experience distro....but that tag actually belongs to Mandriva, which still has managed to keep itself alive (I don't know how longer though). Some of their tools are very good like msec (Mandriva Security), menu layout for GNOME and KDE which is unique and very consistent. We could take some cues from there and add the requisite polish on top of it.
My personal first choice is PCLinuxOS, but as they say, YMMV :) I have never cared too much for Ubuntu, preferring Kubuntu because of KDE, UNTIL the 4.0 fiasco. Now that KDE has evolved to where it needed to be when 4.zero was released, I would have no real reason to go to 'buntu except maybe for its' relative ease of installation. If you frequent its' support MLs, not a whole bunch of people are really happy with the most recent release though....
I'm sure some of these suggestions will be flamed...but I'd appreciate if this not be taken as criticism, but as suggestions to greater improve the distro that we all like.
-Anshul
Don't mistake a difference of opinion for a flame. What we need to do is reach a workable consensus of opinions that work best for this distro. Things like dump Novell aren't practical, at least in the short run. As a long term goal, maybe there could be some merit in Independence but there needs to be a realization that isn't going to happen by magic, but by well thought out planning and implementation. And more importantly, TIME. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:14:30 -0400, Richard Creighton <ricreig@gmail.com> wrote:
Things like dump Novell aren't practical, at least in the short run. As a long term goal, maybe there could be some merit in Independence but there needs to be a realization that isn't going to happen by magic, but by well thought out planning and implementation. And more importantly, TIME.
I agree with most of that. But I'm not sure how long it can wait, before it's too late to gain market share. -- Web mail, POP3, and SMTP http://www.beewyz.com/freeaccounts.php -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/06/10 21:46 (GMT+0530) Anshul Jain composed:
3. Better bootsplash experience by using Plymouth
3.b. Easy to eradicate bootsplash: 1-during install, a checkbox for 100% plain text init instead of GUI init. 2-post-install, no silly deps that when one tries to rm splashy/bootsplash/plymouth or whatever causes bootsplash that the remover doesn't try to remove login manager and display manager components necessary to normal post-boot operation, and also doesn't try to rebuild more than one (very most recent) initrd. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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Anshul Jain -
Felix Miata -
Richard Creighton -
Sankar P -
Trifle Menot