[opensuse-project] Leap 15.2 Install party @ GOLEM: (quick!) report
Hello, This mail just to say that we did an openSUSE Leap 15.2 Launch Party, here at the local LUG (it's called GOLEM, it's in a small town in central Italy), and I feel like making a quick report. See these posts for some info: - https://twitter.com/DarioFaggioli/status/1285544719121035265 - https://twitter.com/DarioFaggioli/status/1286014538899496960 - https://twitter.com/DarioFaggioli/status/1287084502913888261 The second one has some pictures, although pretty bad ones. Sorry. :-/ We have space outside, so we could do an actual physical event and still respect the social distancing restrictions which are continue to hold here in Italy. First of all, this meant that I could bring and distribute the super- awesome swags that Doug sent me. And I really want to thank him a lot one more time for shipping them over extremely quickly. They are great and people loved them! Ah, the event was also recorded, but they still have to let me know whether that worked well or not. I decided to do a live install as I think our installer is great, and wanted to show it off a bit. :-) In fact, I've heard a few times people saying that installing openSUSE is difficult, and I wanted to give it a shot to busting that myth. I showed how it is possible to install the distro with just a few clicks, which is the opposite of difficult. After that, I went back and explained all the various possible customizations that one can make -- but only if she wants to-- at each stage. Feedback on this was extremely good, and I think I'm going to reuse this same approach for other similar occasions. While the installer was copying packages, there was the time to talk a bit about the characteristics of Leap such as its goals, release cycle, development process, relationship with SLE, etc. I quickly mentioned the maintenance process, taking advantage of some slides kindly provided by Marina (thanks to you again as well!), and this also was perceived as very interesting. After the system was ready, I had the time to showcase YaST a little, to explain how to add Packman repos for the codecs and to introduce BTRFS snapshots, snapper and demo a reboot into a previous snapshot and the rollback. I managed to hint quickly at OBS, but there was only the time to mention OpenQA, and I couldn't give them a meaningful tour of these two. People where curious and interested, so I call the event a success. They asked questions mainly about YaST, BTRFS and zypper. Plus two more, rather specific ones: 1) why don't we ship/install multimedia codec by default (even the proprietary and patent encumbered ones), like Ubuntu and even Debian? 2) why don't we use an LTSS kernel for Leap? Just to be clear, I'm not actually asking the questions here. :-) I just felt it would be useful to report this, especially considering that I hear these being asked pretty often, during various events or in various channels or forums. Anyways, I honestly think the event was a good one, considering that we're a small LUG from a small place and that we're still elbow deep inside a pandemic. :-/ And we're already planning a similar event about Tumbleweed! Not a release party, probably... or maybe yes: I just have to make it coincide with the publishing of a TW snapshot, which should not be too difficult after all. :-P Best Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On Sat 2020-08-01, Dario Faggioli wrote:
This mail just to say that we did an openSUSE Leap 15.2 Launch Party, here at the local LUG (it's called GOLEM, it's in a small town in central Italy), and I feel like making a quick report.
This is officially cool! Thumbs up.
I showed how it is possible to install the distro with just a few clicks, which is the opposite of difficult.
Yes, installing openSUSE really is easy (even, or in particular, when I pretend I am not technical). Thanks for setting this straight!
Feedback on this was extremely good, and I think I'm going to reuse this same approach for other similar occasions.
While the installer was copying packages, there was the time to talk a bit about the characteristics of Leap such as its goals, release cycle, development process, relationship with SLE, etc.
+1
2) why don't we use an LTSS kernel for Leap?
Just to be clear, I'm not actually asking the questions here. :-)
Ahh, I was just going to bite. ;-) Gerald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 03:46 +0200, Dario Faggioli wrote:
2) why don't we use an LTSS kernel for Leap?
Dario I'd recommend the following answer every time you get this question "Because Greg Kroah-Hartman, the #2 Leading Linux Kernel Engineer and the maintainer of the upstream LTS Kernel says that any distribution kernel is better than that LTS Kernel"
From talking to Greg on this topic endlessly I know he'd appreciate if we all did a better job of spreading the word and correcting people's expectations about the upstream LTS kernel versions.
His full blog on the topic is here: http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2018/08/24/what-stable-kernel-should-i-use/ Hope this helps, -- Richard Brown Linux Distribution Engineer - Future Technology Team Phone +4991174053-361 SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 04/08/2020 à 16:21, Richard Brown a écrit :
"Because Greg Kroah-Hartman, the #2 Leading Linux Kernel Engineer and the maintainer of the upstream LTS Kernel
and former very active openSUSE user (I remember his "kayak" on Nuremberg OSC 2011 :-)) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2020-08-04 at 16:21 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:
On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 03:46 +0200, Dario Faggioli wrote:
2) why don't we use an LTSS kernel for Leap?
Dario I'd recommend the following answer every time you get this question
"Because Greg Kroah-Hartman, the #2 Leading Linux Kernel Engineer and the maintainer of the upstream LTS Kernel says that any distribution kernel is better than that LTS Kernel"
From talking to Greg on this topic endlessly I know he'd appreciate if we all did a better job of spreading the word and correcting people's expectations about the upstream LTS kernel versions.
Fully agreed, we've also received some negative feedback regarding kernel choice of SLE/Leap. Essentially why not LTS? And perhaps sharing this on news.opensuse.org would be a nice way to respond.
His full blog on the topic is here: http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2018/08/24/what-stable-kernel-should-i-use/
Hope this helps, -- Richard Brown Linux Distribution Engineer - Future Technology Team
Phone +4991174053-361 SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Geschäftsführer: Felix Imendörffer
Hey, Thanks everyone for your replies, I appreciate the feedback! :-) And sorry for the ridiculous delay with which I am answering, I was on vacation. On Tue, 2020-08-04 at 16:21 +0200, Richard Brown wrote:
On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 03:46 +0200, Dario Faggioli wrote:
2) why don't we use an LTSS kernel for Leap?
Dario I'd recommend the following answer every time you get this question
"Because Greg Kroah-Hartman, the #2 Leading Linux Kernel Engineer and the maintainer of the upstream LTS Kernel says that any distribution kernel is better than that LTS Kernel"
Eheh :-)
From talking to Greg on this topic endlessly I know he'd appreciate if we all did a better job of spreading the word and correcting people's expectations about the upstream LTS kernel versions.
His full blog on the topic is here: http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2018/08/24/what-stable-kernel-should-i-use/
Yes, thanks. IME, many upstream kernel developers are usually not huge fans of (enterprise) distros using old kernels and push a lot for using the latest releases (e.g., Thomas Gleixner often does not loose a single chance for bushing us about that! :-P). I know Greg-KH's position (e.g., from that posts). In fact, you often hear him acknowledging the work of the people in the various distros' kernel teams (there's one keynote he gave at an OSS where he explicitly mentions how helpful SUSE kernel engineers where... what was that for, Meltdown patches for some old kernel, I think?). All that being said, as far as I've experienced it, the question is often a little more subtle than "why should I use Leap's kernel instead than an LTS one?". They're fine with using the Leap kernel, but they wonder "why Leap doesn't build its kernel on top of an upstream LTS release?". In fact, what I think is a little hard to understand --and should perhaps be communicated better-- is that the work of putting together and maintaining an enterprise kernel is similar *but not identical* to the one of maintaining an LTS kernel. For instance, as Greg says in the post, LTS kernels do get bug and security fixes, but: "no new features and almost no new hardware support is ever added to these kernels" and also: "The downsides of using this [LTS] release is that you do not get the performance improvements that happen in newer kernels". Instead, we want the SLE/Leap kernel to have some new features and some performance improvements from the newer kernel (e.g., but not necessarily only, upon users/customers requests). But that must happen without updating it entirely, for stability, maintenance, certification reasons, etc. In fact, we do backport many of those things, in addition to security and bug fixes. Therefore, having an LTS as a base would _not_ mean not having to do the work of maintaining the distro's enterprise kernel, doing backports, etc. Which is indeed what many users asking the question above seem to think, when they ask it. :-) So this is pretty much what I try to explain, when I get such question... Shall anyone have thoughts, corrections, ideas for improving the argument, I'm all ears! :-) Thanks again and Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
participants (5)
-
Dario Faggioli -
Gerald Pfeifer -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Lubos Kocman -
Richard Brown