30 Jul
2007
30 Jul
'07
10 a.m.
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A while ago, a few of us IRC folks have tried to push having a one-click
.desktop icon that would take users directly to #suse in 10.3
While the idea seems to be divisive amongst people, I would like to know
what the state of things is wrt that @Novell.
I've heard that Michl is against it, and given his position, I presume
that's a "no-no" veto.
If so, could someone (preferably Michl himself) explain the reasoning
behind it?
Afraid of people misbehaving ? We have ops.
Afraid of it getting "out of control" ? Make it clear that it is
"community support" and not an official Novell channel, and trust the
community.
Being very much in favour of having that one-click-to-#suse thingy, I
would appreciate (to put it mildly) having some feedback and if it's
veto'd, I'd like to hear the reasons.
Thanks.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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30 Jul
30 Jul
10:17 a.m.
Am Montag 30 Juli 2007 schrieb Pascal Bleser:
A while ago, a few of us IRC folks have tried to push
having a one-click
.desktop icon that would take users directly to #suse in 10.3
While the idea seems to be divisive amongst people, I would like to know
what the state of things is wrt that @Novell.
I've heard that Michl is against it, and given his position, I presume
that's a "no-no" veto.
If so, could someone (preferably Michl himself) explain the reasoning
behind it?
Afraid of people misbehaving ? We have ops.
Afraid of it getting "out of control" ? Make it clear that it is
"community support" and not an official Novell channel, and trust the
community.
Being very much in favour of having that one-click-to-#suse thingy, I
would appreciate (to put it mildly) having some feedback and if it's
veto'd, I'd like to hear the reasons.
There won't be a _one_ click to #suse - and the main reason is that it's a bit
of suprise and explaining the concept of IRC in two lines is asked too much.
What we have is here: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/greeter.png (Alpha7
material)
And this links to http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate, which links to #opensuse
(among others). So what you get is a 3-click-to-#suse
As I explained you on IRC, this will be an interesting experiment for the
channel and its ops :)
Greetings, Stephan
--
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
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12:28 p.m.
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Stephan Kulow wrote:
[...]
There won't be a _one_ click to #suse - and the
main reason is that it's a bit
of suprise and explaining the concept of IRC in two lines is asked too much.
What we have is here: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/greeter.png (Alpha7
material)
IMHO it is not very well designed in terms of usability.
Should add action-oriented links, e.g. as bullets:
* connect to openSUSE IRC chatrooms
* subscribe to openSUSE mailing-lists
* visit openSUSE forums
* read HOWTOs and documentation
* query the Support Database
rather than linked text.
And this links to http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate,
which links to #opensuse
(among others). So what you get is a 3-click-to-#suse
OK.
As I explained you on IRC, this will be an interesting
experiment for the
channel and its ops :)
Sure. We're ready :)
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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10:09 p.m.
Pascal Bleser wrote:
IMHO it is not very well designed in terms of
usability.
Should add action-oriented links, e.g. as bullets:
* connect to openSUSE IRC chatrooms
* subscribe to openSUSE mailing-lists
* visit openSUSE forums
* read HOWTOs and documentation
* query the Support Database
rather than linked text.
I agree entirely. The proposed greeter doesn't do a good job of
explaining what those underlined items are. Take, for example, the
"forums, mailing lists, and IRC channels" link. How am I to know that
clicking on that will take me to the forums, or take me to the mailing
lists, or take me to the IRC channel? Bullet points are more reader
friendly.
~~ Andrew D.
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31 Jul
31 Jul
2:31 a.m.
On Tuesday 31 July 2007 04:09:23 Andrew Dorney wrote:
Take, for example, the "forums, mailing lists,
and IRC channels" link. How
am I to know that clicking on that will take me to the forums, or take me to
the mailing lists, or take me to the IRC channel?
I takes you to none of those directly but http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate
Bye,
Steve
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3:30 a.m.
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Tuesday 31 July 2007 04:09:23 Andrew Dorney wrote
Ok. But http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate is a place in dire need of
some love. It is definitely not newbie friendly. 90% of the content will
be total gibberish for a new user. That said I do not say that
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate is a waste of space. It is good for
reference. I propose a new page with more or less this content;
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/supportopts.png
But at the end of each subject there could be a link called "Learn more
about X, and how to use it."
Where X = Chat or forums or documentation or mailing lists.
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Take, for example, the "forums, mailing
lists, and IRC channels" link. How
am I to know that clicking on that will take me to the forums, or take me to
the mailing lists, or take me to the IRC channel?
I takes you to none of those directly but http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate
6:55 p.m.
On Tuesday 31 July 2007 02:30, Kenneth Aar wrote:
Stephan Binner wrote:
Good idea Keneth.
--
Regards,
Rajko.
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On Tuesday 31 July 2007 04:09:23 Andrew Dorney
wrote
Ok. But http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate is a place in dire need of
some love. It is definitely not newbie friendly. 90% of the content will
be total gibberish for a new user. That said I do not say that
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate is a waste of space. It is good for
reference. I propose a new page with more or less this content;
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/supportopts.png
But at the end of each subject there could be a link called "Learn more
about X, and how to use it."
Where X = Chat or forums or documentation or mailing lists. Take, for example, the "forums, mailing
lists, and IRC channels" link.
How am I to know that clicking on that will take me to the forums, or
take me to the mailing lists, or take me to the IRC channel?
I takes you to none of those directly but
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate 
30 Jul
30 Jul
10:52 a.m.
On Monday 30 July 2007 16:00, Pascal Bleser wrote:
A while ago, a few of us IRC folks have tried to push
having a one-click
.desktop icon that would take users directly to #suse in 10.3
While the idea seems to be divisive amongst people, I would like to know
what the state of things is wrt that @Novell.
I've heard that Michl is against it, and given his position, I presume
that's a "no-no" veto.
Am I already known as master of
"no-no" veto? :-)
If so, could someone (preferably Michl himself) explain the reasoning
behind it?
No reason behind it as we currently just created a first version of the
susegreeter. This new susegreeter will have an icon on the desktop and
bridges the distribution with the project. First version will be included to
Alpha 7 - see here a preview: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/greeter.png
But correct, I'm not very much in favor putting an extra icon for
the "One-click to IRC" on the dekstop. Reasons for that:
- we try to minimize the number of icons on the desktop
- we believe to adress many of the "how to get in contact" questions with new
susegreeter
- simple icon without further explanation connecting direct to the server
might cause problems
- bear in mind we count serveral thousand installations a day and would invite
pretty many of them to #suse - could become crowded, couldn't it?
Afraid of people misbehaving ? We have ops.
Afraid of it getting "out of control" ? Make it clear that it is
"community support" and not an official Novell channel, and trust the
community.
Let's put it to the agenda for Wednesday's IRC meeting.
M
Being very much in favour of having that one-click-to-#suse thingy, I
would appreciate (to put it mildly) having some feedback and if it's
veto'd, I'd like to hear the reasons.
Thanks.
cheers
--
Michael Löffler, Product Management
SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nuremberg
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex
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12:32 p.m.
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Michael Loeffler wrote:
Yep :)
OK, fine with me, s/one-click/easy access/
OK, I'll try to attend.
Thanks for your reply.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
On Monday 30 July 2007 16:00, Pascal Bleser wrote:
[...]
I've heard
that Michl is against it, and given his position, I presume
that's a "no-no" veto.
Am I already known as master of "no-no" veto? :-) If so, could
someone (preferably Michl himself) explain the reasoning
behind it?
No reason behind it as we currently just created a first version of the
susegreeter. This new susegreeter will have an icon on the desktop and
bridges the distribution with the project. First version will be included to
Alpha 7 - see here a preview: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/greeter.png But correct, I'm not very much in favor putting an
extra icon for
the "One-click to IRC" on the dekstop. Reasons for that:
- we try to minimize the number of icons on the desktop
- we believe to adress many of the "how to get in contact" questions with new
susegreeter
- simple icon without further explanation connecting direct to the server
might cause problems
OK, those would be addressed by using the susegreeter instead.
That's fine.
- bear in mind we count serveral thousand
installations a day and would invite
pretty many of them to #suse - could become crowded, couldn't it?
Hardly would be that crowded. It's not like it's auto-connecting to
#suse on login ;)
But frankly, I really think that the interactive help that can be
provided on IRC is very valuable to users, including inexperienced users.
Of course, it would be more than helpful to get them to read channel
rules and give them further links about how IRC works, proper behaviour,
etc... (unfortunately most don't read IRC topics), but I'm not sure
whether it can be done in a good way in terms of usability.
Having crippled screens with a dozen things to click is too complex for
inexperienced users, especially those who never used IRC before.
Afraid of
people misbehaving ? We have ops.
Afraid of it getting "out of control" ? Make it clear that it is
"community support" and not an official Novell channel, and trust the
community.
Let's put it to the agenda for Wednesday's IRC meeting. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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1:53 p.m.
No reason
behind it as we currently just created a first version of the
susegreeter. This new susegreeter will have an icon on the desktop and
bridges the distribution with the project. First version will be included to
Alpha 7 - see here a preview: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/greeter.png
OK, fine with me, s/one-click/easy access/
> But correct, I'm not very much in favor putting an extra icon for
> the "One-click to IRC" on the dekstop. Reasons for that:
> - we try to minimize the number of icons on the desktop
Not one icon just to launch irc, but one link in the greeter maybe?
Please check these two mockups done some time ago:
http://giannaros.org/suse/SupportOptions/
http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/supportopts.png
They represent the idea of most of the irc people think it should be
desgined. Hope it gives more ideas for all.
> - simple icon without further explanation
connecting direct to the server
> might cause problems
could have a small explanation close to the icon?
- bear in mind
we count serveral thousand installations a day and would invite
pretty many of them to #suse - could become crowded, couldn't it?
Hardly would be that crowded. It's not like it's auto-connecting to
#suse on login ;)
4:56 p.m.
On Monday 30 July 2007 19:53:18 Druid wrote:
In the irc part, konversation already points to #suse,
so we have
Which was changed to (the redirecting) #opensuse for 10.3 btw...
Bye,
Steve
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4918
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4919
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10 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Andrew Dorney -
Druid -
Kenneth Aar -
Michael Loeffler -
Pascal Bleser -
Rajko M. -
Stephan Binner -
Stephan Kulow