[opensuse-project] A couple mailing list issues
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but how come emails sent don't have the "reply-to: <ml>@opensuse.org" header? OS is the only mailing list I've used without it -- and I'm sure I can't be the only one who accidentally sends off replies to person rather than list. And while on the topic of mailing lists, with the opensuse-features list for openfate -- can we stop firing off emails everytime someone adds themselves to the "interested: " part? I can't imagine anyone actually wants to be notified in this event. I want to read comments and new feature ideas, but checking new messages to only find it's a "+1 person interested" 99% of the time is frustrating. Regards, Eric. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 20. January 2009 12:43:26 Eric Springer wrote:
And while on the topic of mailing lists, with the opensuse-features list for openfate -- can we stop firing off emails everytime someone adds themselves to the "interested: " part? I can't imagine anyone
That has already been stopped. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Eric Springer wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but how come emails sent don't have the "reply-to: <ml>@opensuse.org" header?
OS is the only mailing list I've used without it -- and I'm sure I can't be the only one who accidentally sends off replies to person rather than list.
The reply-to header of mailing lists is a topic dicussed many times (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) and the common way of doing it is leaving the reply-to untouched. Some mail clients have a reply to list button, in thunderbird you can use reply-all or use an extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/thunderbird/addon/4455).
And while on the topic of mailing lists, with the opensuse-features list for openfate -- can we stop firing off emails everytime someone adds themselves to the "interested: " part? I can't imagine anyone actually wants to be notified in this event. I want to read comments and new feature ideas, but checking new messages to only find it's a "+1 person interested" 99% of the time is frustrating.
This is already fixed, no more mails for "interested: " changes. Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Thanks for that guys, didn't notice opensuse-features has has been fixed. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:03 PM, Thomas Schmidt <tschmidt@suse.de> wrote:
The reply-to header of mailing lists is a topic dicussed many times (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) and the common way of doing it is leaving the reply-to untouched.
I really disagree with his take. First off, the expected behavior of replying in a mailing list, would be to reply to the mailing list. It's the same as bulletin boards and forums. Secondly, he keeps talking of how you lose the ability to reply to the author. He's extremely overblown it. Here's a header from a normal mailing list: From: "xxxxxxx " <xxxxxx@gmail.com> To: kde-devel@kde.org Reply-To: kde-devel@kde.org, xxxxxxx@gmail.com If I I want to reply privately, I hit "reply" and remove the mailing list. Honestly, it couldn't be simpler. I have no idea what he's on about. I've not "lost freedoms" at all.
Some mail clients have a reply to list button, in thunderbird you can use reply-all or use an extension (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/thunderbird/addon/4455).
In all fairness, if the "mailing list" header is enough information for an email client to reliable determine the mailing list address, it a limitation of mail clients. But like most things, I think it's best to be pragmatic and work around it, and reply-to really is the best solution imo. On the plus side, we might be keeping out some noise of people who can't figure out to add the mailing address to the reply :D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Eric Springer wrote:
[...] I really disagree with his take. First off, the expected behavior of replying in a mailing list, would be to reply to the mailing list. It's the same as bulletin boards and forums.
No, it isn't. That's why it's called a mailing list and not a forum in the first place ;-)
Secondly, he keeps talking of how you lose the ability to reply to the author. He's extremely overblown it. Here's a header from a normal mailing list:
From: "xxxxxxx " <xxxxxx@gmail.com> To: kde-devel@kde.org Reply-To: kde-devel@kde.org, xxxxxxx@gmail.com
If I I want to reply privately, I hit "reply" and remove the mailing list. Honestly, it couldn't be simpler. I have no idea what he's on about. I've not "lost freedoms" at all.
Yes, you have, you just haven't realized yet. Good MUAs have a "Reply", "Reply-to-list" and "Reply-all" functionality. So there's no need to remove email addresses at any time (as opposed to your solution), you only have to choose to whom you would like to reply (sender=reply, list=reply-to-list, sender+list=reply-all). mutt, KMail, Thunderbird (with an extension) and probably also other MUAs have a list-reply functionality as far as I know. You may have to reconsider your "it couldn't be simpler" statement, I would call the current solution a lot more elegant.
[...] In all fairness, if the "mailing list" header is enough information for an email client to reliable determine the mailing list address, it a limitation of mail clients. But like most things, I think it's best to be pragmatic and work around it, and reply-to really is the best solution imo.
We have discussed this many times, please check the archive of various opensuse mailing lists. The task of a mailing list software is to distribute emails, not to fiddle around with (existing) email headers. It shouldn't do that at all (maybe add an X-Mailinglist header, though). The reply-to-list issues should be handled at the user's end, i.e. by the MUA. I can, of course, already hear what you are going to say, which is: other mailing lists do indeed set the reply-to address to the mailing list. Well, that's correct. But it doesn't mean it's right. Those mailing list administrators are just less strict than Henne ;-) Regards, Th. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
We have discussed this many times, please check the archive of various opensuse mailing lists.
Yup, and it will never change. It is an annoying quirk of the openSUSE mailing lists and you simply have to put up with it. I'm on about 150 mailing lists between work and home (I work in open source) and this is the ONLY one (that I'm subscribed to) that behaves this way. It is unintuitive and annoying, but it's how it is, and no amount of grousing about it will get it changed as the list archives will attest. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
* Clayton <smaug42@gmail.com> [01-21-09 04:21]:
We have discussed this many times, please check the archive of various opensuse mailing lists.
Yup, and it will never change. It is an annoying quirk of the openSUSE mailing lists and you simply have to put up with it.
I'm on about 150 mailing lists between work and home (I work in open source) and this is the ONLY one (that I'm subscribed to) that behaves this way. It is unintuitive and annoying, but it's how it is, and no amount of grousing about it will get it changed as the list archives will attest.
the procmail list does not nor does the gimpusers nor does the gimp-print nor does the mutt-users nor does the slrn-users nor the smart package manager list nor the yast-devel and, I imagine there are others besides the openSUSE ones -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi, guys there really is no use in discussing this gain... Henne -- ml-admin http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Clayton -
Eric Springer -
Henne Vogelsang -
Patrick Shanahan -
Stephan Binner -
Thomas Hertweck -
Thomas Schmidt