Il giorno gio, 24/05/2007 alle 03.06 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
First, you do not need to send the return mail to me
AND to the list. All you
need to do is to send it to the list.
It's common practise to do so.
[ this is common knowledge... you would have to be
absent, blind, and deaf to
have missed it, but in case you DID miss it... never fear, that's what we
have archives for.
Maybe it's your knowledge. I'm online every single day an various
channels, and I don't see people continuously attacked or complaining
about being attacked.
It happens, yes. So what? Maybe there are reasons for that.
All you need to do to get a sampling is to search
...for any or all of the following phrases just as starters:
"shut the fuck up"
"kick your ass"
... or pick some of George Carlin's "seven words you can't say on
Well... you get the idea... please do not play games here and pretend that
this is not a problem, or that you are unaware of the problem. When the
individuals involved (and they are a relative few) are asked to cease and
desist--- then usually they escalate with defiance and make it clear that
they have no intention of following any sort of Guiding Principles...
barbarians never capitulate--- and they must always have the last foul word.
You're the only one who plays games here. You try to make things bigger
than what they are and to describe community members as barbarians. And
you post off-topic messages in this mailing list (sorry if I contribute,
but I really can't accept your message will pass without opposition).
Proofs, not profs... but the word you were searching
for is "evidence".
Proof and evidence are synonyms. Check please.
The quality of the distro is very important... but
not more important than
good PR, and at the moment Novell has a serious PR problem. Suse is the top
distro in quality (I mean this, bar none)... but it is the number two distro
in distribution, second to Ubuntu. And the reason is PR, not quality. You may
be in denial, but give it some more thought.
Let do PR to the people who know how to do it. PR has nothing to do with
the moralism you're trying to spread around.
Please consider something we have not discussed in
detail yet... I work with
folks (some of them quite young-- K-12) as an advocate for computing
alternatives, open source development, the free software movement... and just
plain fun with opensuse. The foul language and hostile demeanor of some of
the participants to the opensuse lists (I monitor them all) prevent me from
introducing the kids to this community--- its just not a safe place for them.
You want someone to beta test Alpha4... wow... give it to a
twelve-year-old... she'll find your bugs for you. But not now... not with
this unruly behemoth.
The "foul" and "hostile" language was used in very rare occasions,
not as you want to make us believe, every time and with everyone.
I had a lot of discussions with the community members in the past,
sometime they were animated discussions too, but I've never been
personally insulted, even if I was not on topic or I was complaining
maybe too much.
Animated discussions are not negative if they bring somewhere, and they
produce some result. They happen at work and in life.
A linux specific mailing list is not the place for a twelve years old,
which should not spend a lot of time in front of a PC. He should
interact with _real_ people and develop his personality.
So please don't teach us how to talk to a twelve years old kid, because
it's out of place. It's just useless moralism, again.
And its not just kids either... many adults are
offended with sexual
expletives, or blasphemy, or insults out of bathroom humor. Respect for
individuals and the diversity of their respective cultures and their
sensitivities mandates that all participants follow some form of protocol
(call them Guiding Principles or what-have-you). Flagrant disregard for the
sensibilities of others on a public mailing list (even very specific ones
like opensuse) is a form of barbarism.
Respect must be earned, don't you think? And you didn't do much in that
sense. Writing polite messages is not enough. You can irritate and hurt
people's sensitivity even with polite messages like yours, by trying
discredit members which have been contributing to the distribution since
a lot of time or by emphasising issues which are really marginal.
To be clear, once for all, *you* were attacked as a consequence of
*your* behaviour (continuous off-topic posts, hijacking threads, ...).
If you don't understand this, I don't think you have the authority to
teach us about rules of communication, behaviour, and netiquette.
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