[opensuse-project] openSUSE Guiding Principles
Some members of the openSUSE team at Novell sat down and tried to write down the guiding principles of the openSUSE project. A first draft of the result is attached. It can also be found at http://en.opensuse.org/Guiding_Principles. The guiding principles include sections about what the projects is, what its goals and values are and how the project is governed. Our intent was to capture what the project actually is and what is current practice, not to invent anything new. We hope that this document can help clarifying what openSUSE is all about within the community as well as within Novell. The guiding principles contain the proposal of a board of maintainers for the openSUSE project. We see this board as another step to an open development model which includes the whole openSUSE community, inside and outside of Novell. Please take the current document as a draft and let us know what you think about it and how it can be improved. In the end we would like to come to a version which has broad acceptance and is adopted by the community and Novell. We hope that this can serve as a solid base for the future of the project. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de>
On 5/23/07, Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> wrote:
I'm very happy to hear about this: both the principles and the board. I fully agree with the intended scope of the board, as well: it should be for getting things done/sorted around the community, and this is something that I've been silently grumbling about for quite some time :). I'm hoping it will be able to eventually resolve a lot of issues like officialization of contributors (in some form), and areas. One question: * "Novell maintains and releases the openSUSE distribution." Wouldn't it be better to say the openSUSE community releases and maintains the distribution? Though I know in reality it's 99% Novell employees, I don't think it should imply that others -- non-Novell employees -- won't/can't be part of this maintainence and release process for the openSUSE distribution. One other point I think it's vital to stress about the board is that it should also work to have correspondence with all areas of the community, since this is one way of unifying it as I know some other areas in the community (namely, the forums) who fear of being unrepresented on such a council/board, which would result in them having unfavourable decisions enforced upon them without full communication and collaboration. I've also added some syntactical suggestions to the talk page <http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Guiding_Principles> Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 16:32:42 wrote Francis Giannaros:
While I agree that this should be the goal, I personally think that we get more users when we can guarantee that there will be maintainence backed by paid people for a certain time. Even when we manage that novell employees maybe only maintain a minority of packages, it might be a trust point for some user to hear that novell stands behind the distro and give some kind of guarantees. what do you think ? bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N�rnberg) email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Adrian Schröter wrote:
* "the openSUSE community, including Novell, maintains and releases the openSUSE distribution."
the openSUSE community, backed up by Novell... the openSUSE community, with Novell support,... ??? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
El mié, 23-05-2007 a las 17:28 +0200, jdd escribió:
I think it is important for the community to be recognized so it should be told that the openSUSE distribution it is maintained and released by the community, although 90% of the community might be Novell employees right now. Novell already maintains some professional distributions, SLED, SLES, SLERT..., if you want a strong community, you should recognize them and let them participate. I also think that there should be some kind of "Director Board" instead of a "Maintain Board". I mean that those people could take real decisions about the distribution and control and direct the development. And the Board should be elected for community members. Just a way that community can be more involved by leting them participate in the decisions. People who wants to be there, should show their merits so that they could get votes. I mean that in order to ask for votes, you should show somehow that you are involved enough. For example, it could be a group of people "electable" that could invite others that deserve it. So it would be a little meritocratic and democratic as well. Sponsoring could have some advantatges as well. For example there could be some reserved seats in the Director Board for sponsors (right now sponsors equals to Novell). But I do not think that it should be 3 of 5 chairs, like Novell is proposing with the Maintain Board. just my 5 cents trying to build a community, jordi
???
jdd
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On Wednesday 23 May 2007 16:32, Francis Giannaros wrote:
Exactly. That's what we had in mind when writing down the draft document. I would be more than happy if this would work out.
Yes, this sentence is in no way meant to exclude non-Novell employees from being part of distribution development. On the other hand we wanted to stress that Novell takes some special responsibility which comes with being the maintainer of an open source project. Maybe we can add to this sentence that the distribution is made by the community (which includes both Novell and non-Novell community members).
Agreed. Communication in and with the community is essential for the board.
I've also added some syntactical suggestions to the talk page <http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Guiding_Principles>
Thanks. I will incorporate them in the next version of the draft. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On May 23, 07 17:33:25 +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
Let me give it a try: "Novell provides the openSUSE community with the resources to maintain and release the openSUSE distribution." cheers, Jw. -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Oral agreements are worth about as much as the paper they are written on." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 10:55, Juergen Weigert wrote:
As I read through the draft two questions came to mind. The sad fact of the matter is that several (a limited few) of the "members" of the opensuse community participating with this project are rather foul-mouthed obnoxious barbarians. (not at all the friendly folks described in the Guiding Principles). I am finding it difficult to believe that the Novell corporation is tolerating the foul demeanor of those participants if in fact they are Novell employees. If they are not Novell employees, then why not moderate the language and attitudes of participants according to the Guiding Principles? I trust that this is one of the overall goals for the Guiding Principles. The second concern is that this document should contain a section which spells out the communication channels, netiquette, terms of use (and so forth), so that there is no ambiguity regarding operational protocol. This should also include proper forms of mutual respect including language, personal attack, name-calling and the like. I realize that that level of detail probably goes "beyond" guiding principles; however, if participants can spend their time working, testing, authoring, supporting, answering questions--- instead of constantly bickering and squabbling regarding proper protocol or attitude-- this is probably the best overall guiding principle. The Guiding Principles is a really good discussion draft. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Netiquette and proper forms are valid points.
I realize that that level of detail probably goes "beyond" guiding principles;
Not entirly beyond the scope. The guiding principles address this issue in considerable length: ] We value respect for other persons and their contributions, for other ] opinions and beliefs. We listen to arguments and address problems in a ] constructive and open way. We believe that a diverse community based on ] mutual respect is the base for a creative and productive environment ] enabling the project to be truly successfull. We don't tolerate social ] discrimination and aim at creating an environment where people feel ] accepted and safe from offenses. I believe this to be adequate language. Barbarism (amongst others) need not be explicitly adressed here. cheers, Jw. -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Oral agreements are worth about as much as the paper they are written on." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
I believe this to be adequate language. Barbarism (amongst others) need not be explicitly adressed here.
Barbarism is what MHarris is doing hijacking threads and posting offtopic stuff and stuff about the ms novell deas with FUD remarks everywhere, while trying to look like a saint and a poilitician and ignoring that he is disrupting and harassing the development (and ignoring people saying that to him), saying that he is doing all that to "dismantle the US patent system", which is his objective. Stop hijacking the threads. Cya laters, with more news from the real world, a place mharris has only heard about. Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 5/23/07, M Harris <harrismh777@earthlink.net> wrote:
The scope of the main guiding principles is wide -- it should cover the community in its entirety; I don't think it should get too specific to particular areas of communication. The respective areas (such as forums, IRC) could in theory each create their own guiding principles to supplement (of course not replace) the main principles themselves, and I think that would be a good idea. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno mer, 23/05/2007 alle 11.31 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
As I tried to tell you already, the members of the community are not barbarians, as you want to describe them. They're fair guys, usually experienced with openSUSE and Linux, who try to help people who asks question and look for help. The answers you receive were not unfair, but a direct consequence of your statements.
Thanks to Novell for not doing this. OpenSUSE is a free place where you can tell your opinion. Novell is not responsible for what we write here.
I trust that this is one of the overall goals for the Guiding Principles.
You should hope exactly the opposite in my opinion, because I think a moderator would have banned you from the list a lot of time ago.
The netiquette is common sense, and it's available in Google. We should concentrate on contents, not on form. Sometime I think openSUSE thinks to form already too much.
I agree. So why don't you install alpha 4 and try to see if it works on you system? Why don't you report the bugs you find in it? Why don't you give some feedback to developers instead of complaining about barbarians who don't exist? Please, don't tell me it's too complex for non-developers people, because many of us are not developers and do that anyway. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 14:13, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
A fair person allows another to state his opinion freely without swearing at him, calling him names, or using vulgar sexual expletives particularly in defiance to the sensibilities and suggestions of *many* other participants. No, some are not fair, and some are most certainly barbarians. The question is one of perception anyway... and perception my friend is 99% of the game--- do opensuse project participants and leaders want a barbarian perception in the fair and free market place of ideas--- as it pertains to the success or failure of opensuse? Think about it. I think an honest and forthright adherence to the Guiding Principles will go a long way in correctly this misunderstanding of perception. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno mer, 23/05/2007 alle 15.03 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
[OFF-TOPIC] (sorry) How many? Could you list some name of those barbarians and quotes where someone who was really insulted or attacked?
Names were never used for what I remember. I again ask for examples, quotes, name of authors. You're making serious accusations, so you must have good profs.
What you don't understand is that the success of openSUSE is bound to its quality, not to some words said on a mailing list. I would really love to let developers work on software (and they're working hard, it's quite evident), and let this hypothetical marketing (real marketing is something else) stuff out.
I think an honest and forthright adherence to the Guiding Principles will go a long way in correctly this misunderstanding of perception.
Human communication is made of perception too, there is nothing to correct about that. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 16:44, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: First, you do not need to send the return mail to me AND to the list. All you need to do is to send it to the list.
http://lists.opensuse.org ...for any or all of the following phrases just as starters: "stfu" "shut the fuck up" "kick your ass" ... or pick some of George Carlin's "seven words you can't say on TV"... Well... you get the idea... please do not play games here and pretend that this is not a problem, or that you are unaware of the problem. When the individuals involved (and they are a relative few) are asked to cease and desist--- then usually they escalate with defiance and make it clear that they have no intention of following any sort of Guiding Principles... barbarians never capitulate--- and they must always have the last foul word.
-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno gio, 24/05/2007 alle 03.06 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
First, you do not need to send the return mail to me AND to the list. All you need to do is to send it to the list.
It's common practise to do so.
Maybe it's your knowledge. I'm online every single day an various channels, and I don't see people continuously attacked or complaining about being attacked. It happens, yes. So what? Maybe there are reasons for that.
You're the only one who plays games here. You try to make things bigger than what they are and to describe community members as barbarians. And you post off-topic messages in this mailing list (sorry if I contribute, but I really can't accept your message will pass without opposition).
Proofs, not profs... but the word you were searching for is "evidence". [see above]
Proof and evidence are synonyms. Check please.
Let do PR to the people who know how to do it. PR has nothing to do with the moralism you're trying to spread around.
The "foul" and "hostile" language was used in very rare occasions, and not as you want to make us believe, every time and with everyone. I had a lot of discussions with the community members in the past, sometime they were animated discussions too, but I've never been personally insulted, even if I was not on topic or I was complaining maybe too much. Animated discussions are not negative if they bring somewhere, and they produce some result. They happen at work and in life. A linux specific mailing list is not the place for a twelve years old, which should not spend a lot of time in front of a PC. He should interact with _real_ people and develop his personality. So please don't teach us how to talk to a twelve years old kid, because it's out of place. It's just useless moralism, again.
Respect must be earned, don't you think? And you didn't do much in that sense. Writing polite messages is not enough. You can irritate and hurt people's sensitivity even with polite messages like yours, by trying discredit members which have been contributing to the distribution since a lot of time or by emphasising issues which are really marginal. To be clear, once for all, *you* were attacked as a consequence of *your* behaviour (continuous off-topic posts, hijacking threads, ...). If you don't understand this, I don't think you have the authority to teach us about rules of communication, behaviour, and netiquette. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 May 2007 05:24, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
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On Thursday 24 May 2007 04:24, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
(Alexey did not deserve this barbaric behavior) <clip>
Wtf is this? https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=275656
If you are incompetent, just step away from the keyboard...
Goddamn it
</end clip> Please tell me how Alexey Eremenko deserved to be attacked--- why was it necessary to swear and defame... quite in opposition to the proposed Guiding Principles. Guiding Principles cannot legislate any more than my perceived moralization. But they are a start. Again, if the participants of the opensuse mailing lists would use common sense, common sensibility, then the Guiding Principles will go a long way towards improving the PR problem for Novell... at least on the opensuse mailing lists. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 5/24/07, M Harris <harrismh777@earthlink.net> wrote:
MHarrris, So being rude is the only problem you have? Does that mean that you agree when me and others were saying you do thread hijacking, offtopic posts, you like to spread FUD? So you admit that you do all that? You admit that you are trying to make people waste time with your endless threads? You admit that your agenda is to end the US patent system, while the rest of the list is committed to make opensuse better? You admit you troll and make people waste time with those irrelevant and disrupting discussions? You haven't addressed the points, you are just complaining somebody called you stupid in a very hard way because you are doing stupid things. Still, you only comment about the format and nothing about the content. You should stop posting and stop making people waste their time with your sick discussions and thread hijacking. If you can, of course, because Im starting to believe that you have a compulsive behavior and you simply cant stop the things, like someone that is not an adult. It would be nice if some moderator helped to convince you to stop that. Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 May 2007 16:20, Druid wrote:
-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
you lie
however, I have continued an offtopic thread several
(already hijacked) because I thought it was ok.
some people think its ok to bomb cities. Does that mean we are goin to start bombing cities?
Other people do this on the opensuse list routinely...
some people think its ok to bomb cities. Does that mean we are goin to start bombing cities?
its not just me. Although, I am trying to change
We are going to get "the others" (tm) too, dont worry.
I hate FUD. My posts are *always* an attempt to add truth and to eliminate
You are failing miserably
No. I don't want to waste anyone's time. I'm just searching for the right
You are doing it forced then, or against your will, dunno
You are in the wrong list. Told ya already. We in this list are not discussing and working on that, only in opensuse.
You are in the wrong list. Told ya already. We in this list are not discussing and working on that, only in opensuse.
You are disrupting without intent, then, dunno.
that. My intent is never to waste time... but contemplating new ideas always takes time... My intent is never to troll... never.
You are trolling without intent, then, dunno.
If it helped for him to stop flooding bugzilla with support issues, makes me feel proud.
No, dude. The reason I want you to stop posting is that there are only 2 things being created here: 1) long threads 2) heat
business success, your career, and your fellowship. I am not the enemy--- and I am trying to help.
You are being the enemy without intent, then. You are failing to help without intent, then. I never claimed you were doing on purpose. Could perfectly be cluelessness. stop converting energy in joule losses Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M Harris escribió: if Novell provides a chair-person with veto
authority, and if Novell as a corporation has a controlling interest in the project
such persons are needed, someone has to take the decisions, elaborating about their reasons and discussing with the comunnity. like it or not they should exist. one of the biggest issues with opensource is the lack of direction, focus,leadership and proper, timely decision taking.
* Cristian Rodriguez R. <judas_iscariote@shorewall.net> [05-23-07 21:18]:
And some is *dearly* needed on the opensuse list. The s2n ratio is ridiculous and admonitions only extend it. A moderator is needed, at least until order is restored (if possible). -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 OpenSUSE Linux http://en.opensuse.org/ Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 14:28, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
This is a very good draft, and I look forward to seeing it develop. I have no real amendments to make. The board is a great idea - I can think of several people who should be considered for it. On a completely separate point, can we all please agree to *ignore* anything MHarris posts to these lists, since his/her/its only aim seems to be to rile people, and then we get long threads about very little. Let's focus on the positive, constructive things that Cornelius and colleagues are involved in, and add to openSUSE rather than detract from it. -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg www.klebran.org.uk - Gwirydd gramadeg rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Den Wednesday 23 May 2007 15:28:51 skrev Cornelius Schumacher:
Please take the current document as a draft and let us know what you think about it and how it can be improved.
Let me first join the people who think it's a very good and useful idea - and also a good first draft. I only have a few gripes about a section like this: "... create a distribution which is stable, easy to use and a complete multi purpose distribution for users and developers, for desktop and server use, for beginners and experienced users, for everybody." I wonder if we could somehow elegantly put in some things that we _don't_ want to do. For example such as running great on 20 year old hardware or cloning MS Windows or Ubuntu. Those are the best I can think of right now, other suggestions for things we don't want to do are welcome. Saying we want to be everything to everybody, is almost the same as saying nothing. One purpose of the goals should be to "guide" people's expectations - to do that the goals must also exclude something. Maybe something like "We want to create an operating system with it's own identity, that has up-to-date functionality to run on modern computers".. or something. Also I think some of the goals can be seen as contradictory - making an OS that's great for devs and grandmothers at the same time might prove difficult. Maybe we could balance it more by saying something like "we want to create a powerful, full featured OS, while making it fairly easy to use". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Schlander wrote: ...
I definitely second that. Saying that we want to do the best for everyone in every situation (almost, didn't mention embedded systems ;)) is also quite vague in terms of mission statement, directions or priorities. I don't have a better proposal atm (Martin's suits me quite well), but we should think of a _somewhat_ narrowed scope. SUSE is most probably the best allround distribution around right now, and it _is_ good at desktop and server. But still, aiming for all goals is difficult... and vague. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGVflvr3NMWliFcXcRAn6tAKCBlLFl6Q17hB1v4/7Dnyeltb8O1wCbBn5j XcsPpXc20JF4JyZTtiVI9Xo= =RqVQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 24 May 2007 22:45, Pascal Bleser wrote:
You are right, that aiming for all possible goals is vague. But isn't being an allround distro a pretty specific goal? My feeling is that this is a big part of the SUSE identity. We always tried to address a very broad range of users. In some way this is trying to reach the impossible, but that's not the worst for a mission statement. Let's leave the realistic goals to the intermediate steps to world domination ;-) Maybe we can find a better way to say this, which doesn't sound so vague. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-05-25 at 00:42 +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
I would like that aspect to continue being so :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGVjGLtTMYHG2NR9URAnv7AJ9hhL+FDa//gKA4JluKmx8kPUQqvQCeIzqB sLLSmppAeDtwRTkvCqBEwx4= =yEN4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I think there is a misunderstanding here. openSUSE aim to address any user. but where is openSUSE the best? for which user is openSUSE the best? IMHO, openSUSE is the best as new, non technical user. The best thing on openSUSE is friendlyness and this is not the most important part for admins. A thing that get this even more complicated is the fact than, on a server point of view, the best openSUSE... is SLES :-() essentially due to the extremely long support time available. So we aim to be the better distro for anybody, but we already reach the goal for non technical users (as soon as we get rid of zen and beagle on 10.3) and we challenge other distribution for technical users... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 22:22:15, Martin Schlander wrote:
But this is exactly what makes the difference since, uhm let me think... forever! :) There is absolutely no problem with contradictive goals. In fact they are pretty useful if you want to reach the midway. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 5/23/07, Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> wrote:
I'm very happy to hear about this: both the principles and the board. I fully agree with the intended scope of the board, as well: it should be for getting things done/sorted around the community, and this is something that I've been silently grumbling about for quite some time :). I'm hoping it will be able to eventually resolve a lot of issues like officialization of contributors (in some form), and areas. One question: * "Novell maintains and releases the openSUSE distribution." Wouldn't it be better to say the openSUSE community releases and maintains the distribution? Though I know in reality it's 99% Novell employees, I don't think it should imply that others -- non-Novell employees -- won't/can't be part of this maintainence and release process for the openSUSE distribution. One other point I think it's vital to stress about the board is that it should also work to have correspondence with all areas of the community, since this is one way of unifying it as I know some other areas in the community (namely, the forums) who fear of being unrepresented on such a council/board, which would result in them having unfavourable decisions enforced upon them without full communication and collaboration. I've also added some syntactical suggestions to the talk page <http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Guiding_Principles> Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 23 May 2007 16:32:42 wrote Francis Giannaros:
While I agree that this should be the goal, I personally think that we get more users when we can guarantee that there will be maintainence backed by paid people for a certain time. Even when we manage that novell employees maybe only maintain a minority of packages, it might be a trust point for some user to hear that novell stands behind the distro and give some kind of guarantees. what do you think ? bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N�rnberg) email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Adrian Schröter wrote:
* "the openSUSE community, including Novell, maintains and releases the openSUSE distribution."
the openSUSE community, backed up by Novell... the openSUSE community, with Novell support,... ??? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
El mié, 23-05-2007 a las 17:28 +0200, jdd escribió:
I think it is important for the community to be recognized so it should be told that the openSUSE distribution it is maintained and released by the community, although 90% of the community might be Novell employees right now. Novell already maintains some professional distributions, SLED, SLES, SLERT..., if you want a strong community, you should recognize them and let them participate. I also think that there should be some kind of "Director Board" instead of a "Maintain Board". I mean that those people could take real decisions about the distribution and control and direct the development. And the Board should be elected for community members. Just a way that community can be more involved by leting them participate in the decisions. People who wants to be there, should show their merits so that they could get votes. I mean that in order to ask for votes, you should show somehow that you are involved enough. For example, it could be a group of people "electable" that could invite others that deserve it. So it would be a little meritocratic and democratic as well. Sponsoring could have some advantatges as well. For example there could be some reserved seats in the Director Board for sponsors (right now sponsors equals to Novell). But I do not think that it should be 3 of 5 chairs, like Novell is proposing with the Maintain Board. just my 5 cents trying to build a community, jordi
???
jdd
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On Wednesday 23 May 2007 16:32, Francis Giannaros wrote:
Exactly. That's what we had in mind when writing down the draft document. I would be more than happy if this would work out.
Yes, this sentence is in no way meant to exclude non-Novell employees from being part of distribution development. On the other hand we wanted to stress that Novell takes some special responsibility which comes with being the maintainer of an open source project. Maybe we can add to this sentence that the distribution is made by the community (which includes both Novell and non-Novell community members).
Agreed. Communication in and with the community is essential for the board.
I've also added some syntactical suggestions to the talk page <http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:Guiding_Principles>
Thanks. I will incorporate them in the next version of the draft. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On May 23, 07 17:33:25 +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
Let me give it a try: "Novell provides the openSUSE community with the resources to maintain and release the openSUSE distribution." cheers, Jw. -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Oral agreements are worth about as much as the paper they are written on." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (17)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Alberto Passalacqua -
Carlos E. R. -
Cornelius Schumacher -
Cristian Rodriguez R. -
Druid -
Francis Giannaros -
Henne Vogelsang -
James Tremblay -
jdd -
Jordi Massaguer i Pla -
Juergen Weigert -
Kevin Donnelly -
M Harris -
Martin Schlander -
Pascal Bleser -
Patrick Shanahan