On Monday, 9 January 2017 10:40 Richard Brown wrote:
We've seen this for years Coolo, and it leads to
Paralysis while willing contributors wait for a decision that may
never come; Potential contributors scared away from contributing
because they think they need to ask permission or gather a broad
consensus from lots of scary established contributors like us; These
are not problems we can afford to ignore.
I'm afraid the problem of openSUSE is exactly the opposite these days.
People pushing controversial changes without asking anyone and in fact
even encouraged to do so as anyone opposing the change is labelled an
enemy of the progress and silenced with "those who do, decide".
But the mindset that consensus must come first is
toxic to the long
term health of a project like openSUSE.
I don't agree. That mindset is what would be necessary to avoid the
chaos and constant breaking of things in the name of "progress". Not
every change is good and not every change is progress.
Someone "doing" and then someone else
"undoing" is, by definition,
contributors pushing in two different directions. In such cases, yes,
I agree with you. Consensus is important and discussion is absolutely
That doesn't really happen. Under current project mindset, "undoing"
would be automatically (with exception of fixes for obvious regressions)
seen as going against the evolution and frown upon. Most often, people
don't even dare to revert the changes as they see it as futile in the
environment we ended up with and mindset you helped to establish (the
one you advocate for here).
We need people to feel they are empowered to
contribute, and do so
with as few barriers in the way. Getting broad support for their
change is one such barrier, and most of the time other people don't
care about the new contributors change anyway.
As a mature project we have enough checks and balances to ensure it
doesn't decend into anarchy.
I wanted to write this in response to your previous mail but then I
discarded the mail instead to avoid another flame. Now I feel it needs
to be said even if it contradicts current openSUSE development doctrine:
when changing important things, first question should always be "if",
not "when", "how" or "who".
When discussion is needed, in any venue, but
mailinglists there is also the additional issue of the "peanut
gallery"  We have lots of non-contributors who have an opinion and
are very happy to share it, but they are not willing or able to do
anything to turn their opinion into reality. Their opinions are not
necessarily invalid and shouldn't necessarily be ignored, but they
often include strongly held concerns based on theory and speculation
rather than reality.
And fear of that brought us to environment where voice of users who do
not contribute enough is called a noise and ignored as not worthy taking
seriously. To distribution of "contributors for themselves" type with
user base reflecting this attitude. I don't say that every voice should
have the same weight; but simply dismissing majority of users as "peanut
gallery" and their opinions as not worthy considering, that's something
I would call toxic. Anyway I'm definitely one of those who do not
contribute enough so feel free to dismiss this as well.
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