[opensuse-project] KDE Neon and opensuse
Dear All, Having in mind the discussions appeared lately about KDE Neon... I think we shall have an official postion since we still ship kde as default de. My main concern is that bugs reported from anything else than neon will be considered non-kde. Already had this experience working in a kde project with some of the supporters of neon... for background: this is Bryan article http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-linux... a more interesting because of comments version https://plus.google.com/+BryanLunduke/posts/XfLoyBaxeea the kde-promo mailing list (this got censored to prevent the best coming out from neon supporters) [kde-promo] KDE Neon and how to handle this? an interesting link on reedit... In which the is kde neon a distro question is answered... by one of the neon people... https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/43tp4i/ is_kde_neon_a_distribution_or_not/ ten days ago seems the answer is: yes, and is indeed a fork/continuation of some other distro three days ago the answer seems to be yes and no... Regards, Alin -- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________
On Saturday, 13 February 2016 09:48:01 CET Alin Marin Elena wrote:
Having in mind the discussions appeared lately about KDE Neon... I think we shall have an official postion since we still ship kde as default de.
The openSUSE KDE Community team has internally discussed this. Our official position is that for the moment this is not affecting us and we believe that this will not influence the support we are getting from the KDE Community itself.
My main concern is that bugs reported from anything else than neon will be considered non-kde. Already had this experience working in a kde project with some of the supporters of neon...
We are more positive on this and we also received already a number of indications that bugs would be resolved regardless the distributions and that a lot of the KDE Community will not use KDE Neon themselves. As is common with opensource, the choice what to use lies with the user itself. Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Alin, The openSUSE Board discussed the situation regarding KDE Neon at their Board Meeting on 8th Feb. We feel there are a number of concerns stemming from the creation of KDE Neon, and many are shared by our openSUSE KDE Team. The openSUSE KDE Team has the full backing of the openSUSE Board. As Raymond has already stated, these concerns do not seem to be directly affecting us at the moment, so meanwhile the Board and the openSUSE KDE Team are working together to establish a dialogue with KDE Upstream, make our concerns heard, and hopefully find a productive outcome. Regards, Richard Brown openSUSE Board On 13 February 2016 at 10:48, Alin Marin Elena <alinm.elena@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Having in mind the discussions appeared lately about KDE Neon... I think we shall have an official postion since we still ship kde as default de. My main concern is that bugs reported from anything else than neon will be considered non-kde. Already had this experience working in a kde project with some of the supporters of neon...
for background: this is Bryan article http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-linux... a more interesting because of comments version https://plus.google.com/+BryanLunduke/posts/XfLoyBaxeea
the kde-promo mailing list (this got censored to prevent the best coming out from neon supporters) [kde-promo] KDE Neon and how to handle this?
an interesting link on reedit... In which the is kde neon a distro question is answered... by one of the neon people... https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/43tp4i/ is_kde_neon_a_distribution_or_not/ ten days ago seems the answer is: yes, and is indeed a fork/continuation of some other distro three days ago the answer seems to be yes and no...
Regards, Alin -- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dear Richard&All, Unfortunately until I asked I seen no position from opensuse kde or opensuse towards the decision and after that I am asked why do I ask. The last days I have seen so much of the dark side of kde and people behind that made me sit down and think. Why am I a member? Shall I be associated with an entity that tolerates ad hominem attacks to others? Shall I stand quiet when one of ours is attacked because of his opinions? Nope I will not. If people want to make a compromise good to them is their choice. My choice is to move on and sign-out from kde and opensuse. It seems the only open part is in our name. Until today I thought I am member of opensuse KDE team, turns out I was not anymore (no idea when the decision was taken), just to add to our transparency. I wish you luck! Alin On Saturday, 13 February 2016 15:59:33 GMT Richard Brown wrote:
Hi Alin,
The openSUSE Board discussed the situation regarding KDE Neon at their Board Meeting on 8th Feb. We feel there are a number of concerns stemming from the creation of KDE Neon, and many are shared by our openSUSE KDE Team.
The openSUSE KDE Team has the full backing of the openSUSE Board.
As Raymond has already stated, these concerns do not seem to be directly affecting us at the moment, so meanwhile the Board and the openSUSE KDE Team are working together to establish a dialogue with KDE Upstream, make our concerns heard, and hopefully find a productive outcome.
Regards,
Richard Brown openSUSE Board
On 13 February 2016 at 10:48, Alin Marin Elena <alinm.elena@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Having in mind the discussions appeared lately about KDE Neon... I think we shall have an official postion since we still ship kde as default de. My main concern is that bugs reported from anything else than neon will be considered non-kde. Already had this experience working in a kde project with some of the supporters of neon...
for background: this is Bryan article http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-lin ux-distro-terrible-idea-or-simply-a-huge-mistake.html a more interesting because of comments version https://plus.google.com/+BryanLunduke/posts/XfLoyBaxeea
the kde-promo mailing list (this got censored to prevent the best coming out from neon supporters) [kde-promo] KDE Neon and how to handle this?
an interesting link on reedit... In which the is kde neon a distro question is answered... by one of the neon people... https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/43tp4i/ is_kde_neon_a_distribution_or_not/ ten days ago seems the answer is: yes, and is indeed a fork/continuation of some other distro three days ago the answer seems to be yes and no...
Regards, Alin -- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________
-- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________
In data sabato 13 febbraio 2016 15:22:39 CET, Alin Marin Elena ha scritto: Hey Alin,
with an entity that tolerates ad hominem attacks to others? Shall I stand quiet when one of ours is attacked because of his opinions?
The reason can be explained eloquently by this Asimov quote from "The Caves of Steel": 'The robot said, 'I have been trying, friend Julius, to understand some remarks Elijah made to me earlier. Perhaps I am beginning to, for it suddenly seems to me that the destruction of what should not be, that is, the destruction of what you people call evil, is less just and desirable than the conversion of this evil into what you call good.' There's absolutely no point in breeding more conflict if you know it won't bring anything to the table. Believe me - I'm part of KDE for longer than I've been in openSUSE, so I think that even if there is conflict, we must strive to solve it in a way that does not bring us harm in the long run. In that precise moment, everyone's pretty upset and I think it would be catastrophic to add more fuel to the fire. We bring KDE software to users, let's not forget about that. Why should we jeopardize our relationship with people that make software *WE* distribute over what is no more than politics?
Until today I thought I am member of opensuse KDE team, turns out I was not anymore (no idea when the decision was taken), just to add to our
I would suggest you to reconsider. See the quote I made before for why. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: A29D259B
Dear Alin Marin Elena, somehow I can't understand your decision and yet it seems I should carry part of the blame as openSUSE member. On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 03:22:39PM +0000, Alin Marin Elena wrote:
Dear Richard&All,
Unfortunately until I asked I seen no position from opensuse kde or opensuse towards the decision and after that I am asked why do I ask.
I read it several times and I haven't seen any such statement.
The last days I have seen so much of the dark side of kde and people behind that made me sit down and think. Why am I a member? Shall I be associated with an entity that tolerates ad hominem attacks to others?
Ad hominem attacks were on Google+ user's thread, why should openSUSE community care? I didn't join the discussion but IMHO usually members of distribution usually thinks that their distro is best. I even have friends among them even though they're wrong ;)
Shall I stand quiet when one of ours is attacked because of his opinions?
One of ours meaning KDE community or openSUSE community? Situation around KDE Neon is unfortunate but if you read whole the thread, it doesn't seem to be that relevant in the end. You yourself wrote about toxicity of the original article 'antibiotics are toxic too but make you good..'. So some reaction was expected. The only thing I'd appreciate in future from our new board member 'who can make noise' to state clearly if it is (or is not) opinion of the board. It wasn't clear to the people.
Nope I will not. If people want to make a compromise good to them is their choice. My choice is to move on and sign-out from kde and opensuse. It seems the only open part is in our name.
I'd suggest to re-think it with cold head after week.
Until today I thought I am member of opensuse KDE team, turns out I was not anymore (no idea when the decision was taken), just to add to our transparency.
How can one find such information? You seem to be maintainer of KDE project in OBS, you're listed here: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_team
I wish you luck! Alin
Same to you. S_W
Alin Marin Elena - 15:22 13.02.16 wrote:
Dear Richard&All,
Unfortunately until I asked I seen no position from opensuse kde or opensuse towards the decision and after that I am asked why do I ask.
The last days I have seen so much of the dark side of kde and people behind that made me sit down and think. Why am I a member? Shall I be associated with an entity that tolerates ad hominem attacks to others? Shall I stand quiet when one of ours is attacked because of his opinions?
Nope I will not. If people want to make a compromise good to them is their choice. My choice is to move on and sign-out from kde and opensuse. It seems the only open part is in our name.
Until today I thought I am member of opensuse KDE team, turns out I was not anymore (no idea when the decision was taken), just to add to our transparency.
Well, frankly whole situation is quite unfortunate and unclear. Boards decision is to support KDE team in however they want to react, because they are the closest and know the best. If you read the Richards answer that was crafted quite in hurry to give some reply, it doesn't say much, just that the Board fully supports KDE team and that complains are in progress and we will see what will happen next. Boards decision was taken on the last board meeting, complains in progress were mentioned to board by some members of KDE team. My personal suggestion would be to talk to your teammates, at least some of them are still not totally out of hope yet and if you have some other course of action in mind, discuss it with them.
On Saturday, 13 February 2016 15:59:33 GMT Richard Brown wrote:
Hi Alin,
The openSUSE Board discussed the situation regarding KDE Neon at their Board Meeting on 8th Feb. We feel there are a number of concerns stemming from the creation of KDE Neon, and many are shared by our openSUSE KDE Team.
The openSUSE KDE Team has the full backing of the openSUSE Board.
As Raymond has already stated, these concerns do not seem to be directly affecting us at the moment, so meanwhile the Board and the openSUSE KDE Team are working together to establish a dialogue with KDE Upstream, make our concerns heard, and hopefully find a productive outcome.
Regards,
Richard Brown openSUSE Board
On 13 February 2016 at 10:48, Alin Marin Elena <alinm.elena@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Having in mind the discussions appeared lately about KDE Neon... I think we shall have an official postion since we still ship kde as default de. My main concern is that bugs reported from anything else than neon will be considered non-kde. Already had this experience working in a kde project with some of the supporters of neon...
for background: this is Bryan article http://www.networkworld.com/article/3032063/opensource-subnet/kdes-new-lin ux-distro-terrible-idea-or-simply-a-huge-mistake.html a more interesting because of comments version https://plus.google.com/+BryanLunduke/posts/XfLoyBaxeea
the kde-promo mailing list (this got censored to prevent the best coming out from neon supporters) [kde-promo] KDE Neon and how to handle this?
an interesting link on reedit... In which the is kde neon a distro question is answered... by one of the neon people... https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/43tp4i/ is_kde_neon_a_distribution_or_not/ ten days ago seems the answer is: yes, and is indeed a fork/continuation of some other distro three days ago the answer seems to be yes and no...
Regards, Alin -- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________
-- Without Questions there are no Answers! ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Alin Marin ELENA http://alin.elena.space/ ______________________________________________________________________
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Alin Marin Elena -
Luca Beltrame -
Michal Hrusecky -
Raymond Wooninck -
Richard Brown -
Tomáš Čech