On 09/09/11 20:25, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

Your post was certainly not offensive, but a statement of *your* belief which is your right. Who-ever has reported you to the board is completely off-base.

I disagree. A statement like "No, we sane people usually simply don't care..." libels every non-atheistic person as insane. That's offending and certainly not respectful, it's a statement intended to disturb or upset. If the openSUSE guiding principles and anti-harassment policies aren't just empty words, then such statements shouldn't be allowed on openSUSE mailing lists. Th. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 09/09/11 20:54, andi robert wrote:

Let's please drop this conversation. It is damaging everyone over a matter that can be handled personally not collectively. We at openSUSE welcome all who wish to participate. Talk of disappointment over a matter of belief is beside the point. What unites us is our passion for openSUSE and the community. Let us keep belief to ourselves and focus on what's important, such as the next openSUSE release.

You don't get the point. It's not about politics or religion. It's about disrespect and harassment, and I will speak up when I notice such behaviour. Swiping such behaviour under the carpet would mean you throw any guiding principle or anti-harassment policy out the window. It must be allowed to say that certain behaviour is not acceptable because some people feel offended. Th. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 10/09/11 07:14, Administrator wrote:

...

From: Thomas.Hertweck@web.de [mailto:Thomas.Hertweck@web.de]

<snip> <about guiding principles>

...

It must be allowed to say that certain behaviour is not acceptable because some people feel offended.

That is a sure path to nowhere. Everything offends someone. ... and telling someone they've caused offence usually offends the accused ...

I believe the best we can do is to try and not offend significant or important groups of people and not deliberately offend anybody (usually by making personal remarks about them).

We can argue about who are the significant or important people, but that's best done face-to-face rather than through the ether.

David

p.s. is it OK to offend the alien worshipers by saying aliens don't exist?

I think the distinction was something like: "I don't believe aliens exist" vs. "Believers in aliens are insane/delusional/$other_perjorative" or, with a faint attempt at subtlety: "Belief in aliens is fantasy" There's a difference between stating one's beliefs, and taking the piss out of someone else's. (Not having a go at you David, just sayin') Regards, Tim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 10/09/11 23:32, Administrator wrote:

...

Tim There's a difference between stating one's beliefs, and taking the piss out of someone else's. Now you're spoiling all the fun in life!

...

(Not having a go at you David, just sayin') ;-)

David

p.s. I do believe in aliens. I think it's gross arrogance to assume we're the only intelligent (debatable) lifeform in the universe. I just don't think they've got here yet, otherwise we'd all be dead / enslaved / corrupted.

Trying to find a form of life here on Earth which could be considered to be "intelligent" has been a massive challenge not only to 'the man in the street' but also to qualified academics and scientists - including psycholgists. You think I am joking? Simply read the daily world news just to get yourself into a "thinking mood" and to clear out the cobwebs as you take your first mouthful of caffeine,,,er, coffee. BC -- Any experiment in life will be at your own experience. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Alin, You are obviously not really focussed on the matter at hand, otherwise you wouldn't make so many false statements. On 09/09/11 20:59, Alin Marin Elena wrote:

Th... if you read from our set of rules... please read them and see what do they say about Religous Texts.... I did not see you asking the obs gods to remove the package for breaking the rules...

I didn't say anything about the original RPM package.

plus that statement you refer to... if you apply simple logical inference... you get that insane people care...

This just shows that the long anti-harassment discussion we had some time ago was absolutely useless. You seem to choose to ignore offending behaviour, others don't.

otherwise I wait for the board to tell us you reported one package for breaking our guiding principle...

Why do you think I was the one reporting any package or any person? I wasn't. You just make weak assumptions. Please provide evidence if you accuse others of doing certain things, or stop making accusations. Thanks. Th. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Freitag 09 September 2011 21:34:39 Alin Marin Elena wrote:

are you trying to to tell us that someone reported you to the board for not believing in an old omnipotent man living somewhere up?

I later got a second mail, stating that his original mail was bounced from the list because it contained HTML formatting. I'm not interested in discussing this topic any further but for full disclosure here's the whole mail: On Freitag 09 September 2011 19:46:37 Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Markus Slopianka <markus.s@kdemail.net>wrote:

...

...

After reading the quoted description a second time I'm no longer sure if this particular sentence might affront for example atheistic people.

No, we sane people usually simply don't care and put such things in the same category as other software for studying fairytales. However people who believe in other imaginary beings like Allah, Shiiva, or the Spaghetti Monster might feel offended.

I don't want to join the ongoing discussion and I'm not going to offer an opinion as to if the software in question should be included or not. Nor am I asking for any response except formally from openSUSE board members.

I will say I find the above comment (among others) insulting to me personally and hope the board makes note of my personal complaint. (I have put the board in cc of this e-mail.)

At a minimum, the openSUSE community should acknowledge there are sane, intelligent, and even highly critical thinkers that have studied various religions and come to the conclusion they are valid.

C. S. Lewis being one of the better known converts from Atheism to Christianity. His conversion took place as an adult. It took place because he began a project to explore the fictional nature of the christian religion and expose it to the world. Instead he came to the conclusion it was valid and became one of the greatest modern rationalists in the christian world.

I believe C. S. Lewis in every way personifies a sane, intelligent, and highly critical thinker. I also put myself in that category and if the openSUSE community is not willing to accept that I'm sane, then I'll have to move on.

Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org