[opensuse-project] The Name & Version for the new openSUSE Regular Distribution
Hi all, Drum roll please. First we would like to thank everyone who participated in the naming discussion [1][2] for the input and for entrusting the board to bring the process to a conclusion. After due deliberations and consulting with the release and maintenance teams we have decided the name and version of the next release should be openSUSE Leap 42.x We felt that Leap, with reference to motion, i.e. how the distribution moves forward, provides a nice contrast to Tumbleweed. It also represents that we are taking a leap to get there. It does not cast is into a mold that would set the precedence of openSUSE <plant_name> which we think would have encouraged a regular debate as new <plant_names> were considered for each product or release to go with the theme. Finally it leaves the door open for plenty of options should there be other efforts to create an openSUSE release based on Factory snapshots at some point in the future. As far as the version number is concerned we concluded that 42 is a great starting point due to the historical reference in the project. It's quirky and we felt it suits us well. We deliberated other options such as starting at 1.x or some other arbitrary number such as 22 but we preferred 42. Additionally 42 has already gotten some notoriety and thus we might as well stick with it. In the end we all know the number is more or less arbitrary and the important point is that it increases going forward ;) .x is used to indicate the service pack of SLE from which the sources originate. We expect the first release to be 42.1 because we intend to have the release aligned and sharing code with SLE 12 SP1. The major version will increase alongside the major version of the shared SLE sources, therefore a SLE 13 SP2 servicepack based release would be named openSUSE Leap 43.2 Thanks again to everyone for helping out. Special thanks to Rainer Fiebig, a new contributor who after seeing a news article about 'openSUSE 42' joined our mailinglist and proposed this new name for our new baby. Your openSUSE Board [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-06/msg00314.html [2] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-06/msg00340.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:44 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
I'd like to congratulate everyone on getting this done with a minimum of bike-shedding. . I also hope it turns out to be a great name that will survive the next few years' reality. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:44 AM, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@opensuse.org> wrote:
I'd like to congratulate everyone on getting this done with a minimum of bike-shedding. . I also hope it turns out to be a great name that will survive the next few years' reality. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi all, been offline for some time, and did not follow the naming discussion in depth, but I feel there is some information vaccum. At least I did not find it on opensuse.org easily. [...]
I feel now it is the time to clarify the openSUSE product portfolio of the future - from what I heard and read in forums, there is some confusion left! Leap 42 should be the successor of openSUSE 13.2, what I understood from [1]. If the basis is SLE12 (with some patches), we still talk about a Kernel 3.12.x, and I doubt that actual hardware / chipset / graphics drivers will be addressed properly. So is the target more on the server/enterprise side, where not the latest hardware/Laptops is used? Additional we have Tumbleweed for those who want stay on the bleeding edge. Happy to receive daily upgrades and willing to frequent changes (like the one to Plasma5). What about those users who have reasonably new hardware, but are happy with a released version - and maybe skip one or two releases before upgrading? I feel we need to tell Jack User, who is lurking around openSUSE (and Linux in general) clearly what the right product is for him. Otherwise we may lose those less experienced users to other distros - would be pity. Same for the experienced users - why is Leap a step forward, and not a step back (as frequently stated in forums)? Looks like we have the need for some marketing, IMHO. Thanks for listening and helping... Axel [1] https://news.opensuse.org/2015/06/26/work-begins-on-totally-new-opensuse-rel... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 7 July 2015 at 16:58, Axel Braun <Axel.Braun@gmx.de> wrote:
If you read the discussions on the Factory mailinglist you will see that the discussion about which Kernel will be in Leap 42.1 is still ongoing
What about those users who have reasonably new hardware, but are happy with a released version - and maybe skip one or two releases before upgrading?
If you read the discussions on the Factory mailinglist you will see that the discussion about which Kernel will be in Leap 42.1 is still ongoing
Agreed, feel free to start updating the wiki: https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Distribution https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Leap Also the upcoming openSUSE website (http://cyntss.github.io/opensuse-landing-page/) will need updating accordingly, I'm sure cynthia would accept any pull requests sent to https://github.com/cyntss/opensuse-landing-page -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 7. Juli 2015, 17:13:29 schrieb Richard Brown:
I took a look at that discussion and I think that - if feasable without breaking the SUSE-packages - using the latest LTS-kernel for Leap is really an elegant solution to the problem. An LTS-kernel would reinforce the LTS-/ultimate-stability-idea of Leap while ensuring hardware-support that's up-to-date-enough for that release. It would also signal that Leap is not behind the status quo. The latest LTS-kernel listed on kernel.org is 3.18. That's newer than the initial kernel (3.16) for 13.2. And I think that may already suffice. An LTS-kernel 4.1 would of course be better - if "announced" is really equal to "listed". In any way it should be ensured that 13.2-users who upgrade to Leap don't encounter hardware-issues due to an outdated kernel. Rainer Fiebig
On Wednesday 08 of July 2015 17:25:57 Jay wrote:
According to https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html, 3.18 stable has expected EOL in January 2017. That's not sufficient if we want three years of support for 42.1. Of course, we don't know yet for how long does Greg plan to maintain 4.1 stable (technically, it's not LTS yet).
In any way it should be ensured that 13.2-users who upgrade to Leap don't encounter hardware-issues due to an outdated kernel.
Just an idea... what if we don't insist on 13.2 -> 42.1 being an upgrade in all components? If we hold to the "two releases plus two months" rule, 13.2 should be supported until 42.2 is released so that current 13.2 users could keep using it for now and then upgrade to 42.2 which will most likely have newer kernel. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Torsdag den 9. juli 2015 07:55:20 skrev Michal Kubecek:
There will not be 3 years of support for 42.1. Current plans are that there will be a service pack after 1 year, that users are "forced" to upgrade to within 6 months. Similar to what SLE does if I understand correctly. So 42.1 is really only supported for 18 months. Of course 42.2 shouldn't be a major upgrade, at least not for servers. But the kernel, desktop environments, gui applications etc. are likely to have versions upgrades. That's assuming things go according to plans (which of course is heavily dependent on very unpredictable and uncontrollable factors like timely SLE releases). So there would be no problem shipping with 3.18, if only we can assume that a new LTS kernel is declared before November 2016. But I'm not sure how/when LTS kernels are picked, randomly, at RH discretion or something else. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 9. Juli 2015, 07:55:20 schrieb Michal Kubecek:
But there will be service-packs of the SUSE-packages. We could switch to the latest LTS-kernel available at that time.
One could do that. But in the end this would amount to an outright recommendation to 13.2-users (and other potential users as well) NOT to upgrade to Leap because hardware-support is too far behind status quo. Difficult to imagine. And it would only translocate the issue into the future. As I see it, everything is in place for Leap 42.1 to become a great success - except hardware-support. Going with the latest available (or "announced") LTS-kernel might solve that problem and therefore seems like a reasonable compromise to me. If technically feasable, that is. Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 16:58:05 +0200, Axel Braun wrote:
Same for the experienced users - why is Leap a step forward, and not a step back (as frequently stated in forums)?
Citations, please. I am in the forums daily, and while I don't read every message in every thread, something said "frequently" in the forums is something I'd be very surprised if I missed - and I haven't seen that stated there. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 7. Juli 2015, 16:46:10 schrieb Jim Henderson:
Please see (in german, sorry) http://www.heise.de/forum/Open-Source/News-Kommentare/OpenSuse-Leap-42-1-Nam... ...and others with regard to the News-Posting Best/Axel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, I strongly agree with Axel Braun. As a common user (and a contributor), I still do not fully understand the reason behind the decision of including those SUSE's patches. openSUSE 13.2 is rock solid, fast and beautiful. It supports stable software, not fresh nor so old, but it has an excellent hardware support. It has all the stuff that a common user could expect from a stable desktop-oriented Linux distribution like openSUSE. As far as i understand, the new Leap 42 release will have an older kernel in order to support SUSE patches. That means older hardware support and older software available. So, we are going to exchange something that is proven to work and that the users like (openSUSE 13.2), with something that seems enterprise-oriented, probably stable, that needs more work behind than that for openSUSE 13.2. Since it will also have releases aligned with SLE releases, does that means that openSUSE is going to become a new Fedora-like distribution (i.e. a testbed for enterprise stuff)? Please, don't get me wrong, i really appreciate the contribution of SUSE and all its employees to the openSUSE Community and to the development of the Distribution, but many things are unclear and i think that openSUSE right now, with 13.2 + Tumbleweed + Factory, is simply great. Thanks for the answers in advance, Bye hawake -- Linux user number 433087 Linux registered machine number 351448 http://linuxcounter.net/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 5:47 PM, G G <hawake@gmail.com> wrote:
That is very much up in the air. The latest discussion on -factory is less than 24 hours old, so anything you read before today is already out of date. The latest discussion on -factory states Leap 42.1 MAY ship with the 4.1 LTS kernel, not the one in SLES 12
"Richard and I (Takashi) chatted yesterday shortly after my post, and we thought of an alternative: stick with a stable kernel version, preferably a long-time support kernel. For example, we keep the kernel based on 4.1.x for some time." Note that Richard is the opensuse board chair and Takashi is one of the key SUSE kernel developers who understands the driver backporting issues. There are a few more emails in that thread, but it is clear this is still an area of active discussion / decision, not a done deal at all. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-07 23:47, G G wrote:
I doubt it. "Leap" is based on SLE sources, not the other way round. Kind of an SLES/SLED derivative. The testbed is Tumbleweed. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWcT/sACgkQja8UbcUWM1xxIgD/RjzSGNMkL36cjcDEhnYfmRni CXJW4RvgGDV2y8kRG14A/2sDRZKA2+3oWha46xukOxjv1n0jT1gsAK3NPPA2n7me =VwR2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
This has been said a few times before. I will reiterate a bit, and add some thoughts. I love openSUSE, and it is actually the reason I joined SUSE. I think it is a great project for many applications. SLES offers tools that the community simply does not have the development cycles to create. So there is a big benefit to openSUSE to utilize some of these cycles. For this reason part of the community is shifting gears toward openSUSE Leap 42.x. I don't think it is anyone's intention to drag people along. Therefore, it has been suggested that if a group of people who are willing to put in the effort, continue the path of 13.2. There could be parallel opensuse releases. I can see how this would be appealing to some people, but I do worry about fracturing the project. This is a common issue/benefit of Linux projects. It provides ingenuity, but takes resources away from some efforts. I think it is important to remember that most of the community that created 13.2 will be working on 42.x. I have faith that we can create a beautiful stable operating system utilizing some of the best tools in the market. On Tue, 2015-07-07 at 23:47 +0200, G G wrote:
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On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:55:43 +0200, Axel Braun wrote:
OK, when you say "the forums", please specify which forum you're talking about - the openSUSE project has its own forums, so when you say "in the forums", the assumption is the openSUSE forums is what you're talking about unless otherwise specified. The questions in the post that you cited are just about concerns about where to get drivers. The response (I imagine) to that is that drivers for hardware is something on everyone's mind and is something that will be dealt with. How it will be dealt with specifically is perhaps still being discussed, maybe on this very mailing list (or on factory). Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 08:55:43PM +0200, Axel Braun wrote:
That's a readers feedback. And the contributers to this news page are not always the best informed. There're a lot of polemics. Plus it's mainly information from second hand. And as others wrote on this list the openSUSE Leap 42.1 thing is still in discussion. Unfortunately we already managed to scare some contributers off. Thefore please stay all tuned and express your concerns. As the discussion regarding the failing/ missing supoirt for newer hardware showed this is all work in progress and In addition the main article was written by Thorsten Leemhuis who in the time before he started to work at Heise several years was active with Fedora. His constant ignorance and more or less subtile bashing of openSUSE or SUSE you can not only read in between the lines. With more polite words, I consider him anything else than neutral. Only compare how nicely he's able to spell the word RedHat while he's not able or I expect not willing to use openSUSE or SUSE how it is written since at least five years. But hey, I have the camelion sitting on my shoulder since quite some time. Thefore my comment might be a bit too green. ;) Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On 8 July 2015 at 13:49, Lars Müller <lmuelle@suse.com> wrote:
I've recently been in contact with Thorsten, he's been quite interested about Leap so far and he's provided some pretty nice feedback on the Project. When we have a better picture of what is actually in Leap, I was going to offer information which might provide good fodder for future articles for him But, like you point out, hard to do that when we're still actively putting stuff together I think the best way of handling those misperceptions is answering them directly with the best information we have at the time..but stress that we're talking about Leap before it's finished..that's the nature of (fun & interesting) open source projects like this.. we need to talk about it before we've finished it, so people getting the wrong picture is pretty likely until we actually MAKE something ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 08/07/2015 13:49, Lars Müller a écrit :
But hey, I have the camelion sitting on my shoulder since quite some time. Thefore my comment might be a bit too green. ;)
wy not trust a bit the people that build 42? please let them work.I expect something soon :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 08, 2015 at 01:58:57PM +0200, jdd wrote:
Where have I written that I don't trust the current development model used to develop openSUSE? I suggest to read mails before sending a reply. And there is no need to reply to each and everything.
please let them work.I expect something soon :-)
I not only let them work but also try to do as much as possible to support this development model. Thanks, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Am Mittwoch, 8. Juli 2015, 13:49:51 schrieb Lars Müller:
Relax. All in all the article was quite informative and benevolent - as was the majority of the comments. You should not believe everything that little critter on your shoulder whispers in your ear! ;) Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 6. Juli 2015, 10:44:09 schrieb Richard Brown:
I was a bit surprised by the version-numbering but I think your reasons are valid. "Leap 42.1" is a nice combination. What I really like is that "Leap 42.1" will already be a small leap BEYOND the meaning of life and all. "Meaning of Life - adjusted", so to speak. ;) I've already seen two articles today. The headlines (translated) were: - "OpenSuse Leap 42.1: Name- and version-"Leap" for OpenSuse-Linux" - "Opensuse makes a leap: Opensuse Leap 42" The info was correct (as far as I can tell) but one of the key-benefits - the long-term-support - (for 36 months?) did not come across clear enough. Now that the naming-question has been answered: Is there a schedule for the coming months - kind of an action-plan? There's not much time left until November and technical- and marketing- measures should be well-coordinated. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (14)
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Axel Braun -
Axel Braun
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Carlos E. R. -
G G -
Greg Freemyer -
Jay -
jdd -
jgordon -
Jim Henderson -
Lars Müller -
Martin Schlander -
Michal Kubecek -
PatrickD Garvey -
Richard Brown