-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 06:07 PM, Richard Brown wrote:

Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude! ;)) but I do have two points I want to make very quickly

1. I think talking about naming anything is premature until we know what the landscape is going to be.

Really? When do we ever know the landscape. Until oSC15 most people were most likely under the impression that we'd have openSUSE 13.3 late this year as a snapshot of Factory. The per-announcement at FOSDEM and some other rumors beforehand can certainly not, under any serious circumstances, be considered as an indicator for major upheaval to the release. Thus, I would say we really do not know the landscape, ever, until things actually happen. What we do know is that our release manager has announced that he will work on a distribution/release that is based on openSUSE:42 and thus I would say we can all pretty much infer from that that our current release manager will not have the time, energy, or interest to also work on "openSUSE Factory-based". This decision is from my point of view sufficient to come to terms about what the child should be named. If history is any indication we know that when Stephan puts his mind to something it is going to happen. Even in the most uncertain times somehow there was a release. Kudos to Stephan for all his hard work and dedication to the project, I doubt this will change. And during the times of the openSUSE team Kudos to their hard work on the release as well. Therefore, I would say it is a fair expectation that there will be a distribution ready for release based on :42. I am really not certain how much more of the landscape we need to know to give the child a name.

Right now, we have Tumbleweed and the beginnings of a new Regular Release which is currently codenamed openSUSE:42.

While there is obviously some people who would prefer to keep with the old way of distribution releases, we haven't seen anyone step up to actually do the work to continue that approach.

And why would that have to be right this minute? If it happens next year would you rather rename the new "regular" release again? Or have another naming discussion? Or worse discourage such potential efforts by saying the new child is called "openSUSE XY.z" and that's that? There should be the idea of putting things on equal footing to provide our users with the choice they desire and provide our contributors with the opportunities they deserve. Many things are implied by a name and this choice is important, IMHO.

I think the suggestion to maintain the openSUSE name only for the current-style of Regular release is foolish if there is no sign of that way of doing things continuing.

Well, one can call many things foolish. I guess trying to come up with a reasonable solution that considers many different concerns now falls into that category as well. By the way I did not propose to reserve the current naming for a potential future effort, I proposed to abandon it in favor of providing multiple efforts equal footing for equal naming rights. Maybe that is the foolish part. Please explain where the problem lies if it is called "openSUSE Forest" and there is no third distribution? Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgM/1AAoJEE4FgL32d2Ukxe8IAIrMWREfldbpwMSWL5f7pek/ SAf064lhlxXHJmlOfQxqhD6NZxlXVjzHpILwrELpP4Cmnn+OK4FgAPPRb2xPXGz5 9z5CdtKpcPY4oq8DQMnFQDM8wDOG0NUA5+Gnc9iWFiraq9JmZ2WOJu7M6x07Ae00 yErJ1Kg1wak3Xupp4WI8+tV1vN4iWg9zOiuy+M9Gb2Yxs0e3G+jqV+VwCzhaJQOM NsyItzVTyALrt4nh9oWs5qUOqvrPVEhPjZV2uKNpkmLu7g7uag+XQpldUDXR4YCC bPlAShCOI3trEIPl+eiYNuvFuod9cDtzr6Lbmtm2iZTUX5qq+oANIWDinJyiLIg= =N7lg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 2015-06-17 00:07, Richard Brown wrote:

Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude!

opensuse-project posts are anything but concise, so it does not seem surprising that only "6 out of 49" (or so) people responded to votes. ;^) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 00:22, Robert Schweikert wrote:

I think with the developments as they present themselves we should abandon "openSUSE XY.Z" as a name and we should use names in the form of

openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION

Yes, I agree.

Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this

openSUSE Oak 42

Not bad. I like it :-) Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBbxMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wa+gCfULl1FfC57gPt8i3X8xEuI8F2 VyEAnjBEnpaFoHbkASzd3LCGUXk74PAO =oFLg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb Jan Engelhardt:

On Wednesday 2015-06-17 14:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...?

Since openSUSE:42 is the *title*, any versioning off it would

No (at least IMHO) - openSUSE:42 is a working title saying something like - a future openSUSE version (> 13.2 = future) - includes big changes when compared to 13.2 (that's why it isn't increased only by one, but by a big number)

make for - openSUSE:42 1.0 - openSUSE:42 2.0

And now you see why there is so much confusion about using an integer as title.

I agree, such a numbering scheme would be terrible [1]. However, the scheme was never proposed this way - 42 was only meant as starting number and (if we use this scheme) will increase to openSUSE:43 with the next SLE release. Regards, Christian Boltz [1] see also: Typo3 ;-) -- Der Trick in dieser Welt ist herauszufinden, was man gerne tut, und dann noch jemanden zu finden, der einen dafür bezahlt. -- (unbekannt) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 2015-06-17 15:47, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

I like the scheme of having a separating middle name and Oak actually is one of the nicest proposals I have seen so far. I would not change it over time, though and reflect progress in the version number. So the middle name would reflect the nature of the release and the version what, well, version it is.

Yes. And the number could have the decimal part showing which service pack the release derives from. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:47:40 +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

...

I also believe that such a naming scheme will help us in the forming of a marketing campaign built around "The builders choice" tag line proposed at oSC15.

At oSC15 you presented the slogan as "the makers choice".

Apologies if this third attempt ends up being a duplicate, but my posts don't seem to be coming through to the list. Trying it without the cross- post to devel. "The Makers' Choice" would be correct. It's a plural possessive. Jim (Tech writer/editor by day) -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 09:23, Alberto Planas wrote:

So, for example, if we use names of greens, the names will be:

openSUSE Avocado SLE13 + Factory openSUSE Avocado 1 SLE13 SP1 + Factory ... openSUSE Bottle SLE14 + Factory ... openSUSE Bottle 3 SLE14 SP3 + Factory

Just an idea.

Not bad. It has the advantage that the numbers relate to the SLES service pack the release derives from, and that is a very interesting info to have in the name. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBcTsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XCoACfZzF8boVnBG9pHlECKHmQojzf HuEAoIs0gNIvqanZA4X2h+K1CwzHavbQ =nbfD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

* Stephan Kulow [2015-06-17 10:00]:

On 16.06.2015 23:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.

A brief summary:

Stephan as the release manager has decided that he will concentrate on building a distribution around the project known as openSUSE:42. In [1] he also tried to start the discussion about the naming of the new distro. However, this did get sidetracked rather quickly, thus, please focus on naming only.

- Not all questions for the new release have been answered, we do not need to revisit this. Some answers will only emerge as the baby starts to crawl and then walk.... - Just because Stephan will take on the release manager responsibilities of a distro around the SLE sources does not preclude another person or team to build/release... a distro based on Factory snapshots.

Hi Robert,

I guess it has to be spelled out:

It's not impossible in theory. In practise it won't happen that SUSE engineers work on two openSUSE releases in parallel. This includes bug fixes and maintenance work. So your "another person" above has to replace a lot more than Stephan. I don't see a lot of interest in doing that.

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the us vs them thinking with regard to SUSE comes from, it's exactly this. And its utterly disappointing and a slap into the face for those outside SUSE who have put a lot of work into this project. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 01:35:17PM +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 17.06.2015 13:05, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the

6 weeks after the presentation you're complaining there was no discussion? You must have missed the mailing lists in great.

Just because most don't care as much as you you do doesn't make the discussions less open.

Maybe the amount of contributors to openSUSE Evergreen is also a quite good indicator. Many of us like to have an openSUSE version covered with five or even better ten years of updates. But who is willing to maintain the software == to backport fixes? Here I'd like to thank Wolfgang and Stefan for driving Evergreen this well! Many thanks for the reminders when a Samba update was missing. Or with less diplomatic words: from some posting quite frequently and complaining loudest I expect we'll have seen minimal up to zero contributions to drive openSUSE forward. Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

On 06/17/2015 02:35 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 17.06.2015 13:05, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the 6 weeks after the presentation you're complaining there was no discussion? You must have missed the mailing lists in great.

Just because most don't care as much as you you do doesn't make the discussions less open.

Greetings, Stephan

Hi Stephan, Personally I have the utmost respect for you and your work. I have to agree 100% with Guido here. I think that the timing of your announcement (that you will only work for the SLES based distribution) is the problem here. You announced this before going on vacation, which means at the start of the mailing list discussion (and only a few days after Richard's presentation). And this announcement left no real choice for the community: we *have to* endorse this new distribution and accept the name openSUSE given to it, else there will not be a release (or we will need to find a new release team to do so in the future). In my opinion the problem is not the technical part of this internal decision (which sounds valid) but the fact that it was done in a way to not leave any choice to the community but to accept it. I think a solution to the above problem would be: 1. The Board to announce that the new distribution will be based on SLES sources with a press release (including the technical/marketing reasons behind this), thus officially provide the "openSUSE" part of the name to it. 2. A followup decision for the release name and version (taking into account this thread - patience - I will provide my name suggestion :) 3. An acknowledgment that SUSE took the decision by having the majority of "real contributors" in the project. Lets not hide here, this is the case. The majority of "real contributors" decided. Don't try to sugarcoat it.... 4. We have to withdraw the rule that only 2 Board members can be SUSE employees. This is an illusion for the project. Everyone from the members should be able to run for the Board. And if in the future the openSUSE members are only SUSE employees, the project will be able to continue to work. As for the name of the next (SLES-based) release: my proposal is openSUSE 13.3 Let's be honest here, this is the only way a community works... Best regards, Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 17.06.2015 16:10, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:

On 06/17/2015 02:35 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

On 17.06.2015 13:05, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the 6 weeks after the presentation you're complaining there was no discussion? You must have missed the mailing lists in great.

Just because most don't care as much as you you do doesn't make the discussions less open.

Greetings, Stephan

Hi Stephan,

Personally I have the utmost respect for you and your work. I have to agree 100% with Guido here. I think that the timing of your announcement (that you will only work for the SLES based distribution) is the problem here. You announced this before going on vacation, which means at the start of the mailing list discussion (and only a few days after Richard's presentation). And this announcement left no real choice for the community: we *have to* endorse this new distribution and accept the name openSUSE given to it, else there will not be a release (or we will need to find a new release team to do so in the future).

That might be your perception, but it's not true. I waited 3 weeks after OSC15 to present how it would possibly look like after it was clear that many liked the idea in general but had no idea about the details. And that I don't believe in Factory snapshots is something I said before, not just now. But if a SLE based openSUSE would actually work is something that is still to be proven - so I actually started to set it up instead of talking bullshit and send a progress report before going to vacation. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Angelos Tzotsos - 17:36 17.06.15 wrote:

On 06/17/2015 05:26 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

...

On 06/17/2015 02:35 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

On 17.06.2015 13:05, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the 6 weeks after the presentation you're complaining there was no discussion? You must have missed the mailing lists in great.

Just because most don't care as much as you you do doesn't make the discussions less open.

Greetings, Stephan

Hi Stephan,

Personally I have the utmost respect for you and your work. I have to agree 100% with Guido here. I think that the timing of your announcement (that you will only work for the SLES based distribution) is the problem here. You announced this before going on vacation, which means at the start of the mailing list discussion (and only a few days after Richard's presentation). And this announcement left no real choice for the community: we *have to* endorse this new distribution and accept the name openSUSE given to it, else there will not be a release (or we will need to find a new release team to do so in the future). That might be your perception, but it's not true. I waited 3 weeks after OSC15 to present how it would possibly look like after it was clear that many liked the idea in general but had no idea about the

On 17.06.2015 16:10, Angelos Tzotsos wrote: details.

And that I don't believe in Factory snapshots is something I said before, not just now. But if a SLE based openSUSE would actually work is something that is still to be proven - so I actually started to set it up instead of talking bullshit and send a progress report before going to vacation.

Greetings, Stephan

As I said, technically, a SLES-based distribution sounds valid, I don't see a problem with that. And I did not say that you talked bullshit.

I think coolo meant that instead of talking for weeks about what could we do if we would have had somebody to do actual work, he just went and did it.

You have to acknowledge though that you did not leave much space for a community-based decision.

What should be community deciding? Whether coolo can do whatever he want or whether to put him in the chains? I think timing couldn't be better. We have all the info still fresh in the memory and there is still plenty of time for failure or volunteers to step up and do Factory snapshot release. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 17.06.2015 21:40, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:

The community and the board should be deciding the future of the project. Of course Stephan can do whatever he wants, but he cannot decide for the next official release on his own, this was my point.

Here is how this openSUSE thing works: 1. The "release" or anything else needs to be done by somebody. 2. Everyone can decide if they are going to do something (incl. Coolo). 3. Releases, or anything else, are going to happen when people decide they are going to do it and when they succeed. Coolo told everyone up front what he is going to do (:42) and what he's not going to do (13.3). Now it's up to everyone else to act (or not). That is how we decide what is going to happen :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 18.06.2015 12:22, jdd wrote:

Le 18/06/2015 12:05, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

...

Coolo told everyone up front what he is going to do (:42) and what he's not going to do (13.3). Now it's up to everyone else to act (or not).

is there somewhere a detailed description of what is necessary to build a distro?

I don't ask for long answer, a link or "no" is enough :-)

No. The action item list in progress.opensuse.org is a start but far from complete. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Since we're proposing, here is something from me too. As far as I see it, there will be 2 versions. Rolling and stable. Rolling--> openSUSE Tumbleweed 20150717 (ISO that came today) Stable--> openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION Regarding the numbering I propose to use the year and month. It'll be helpful when someone asks us when is the official suport ends? Now I have to search the news when the current version was out, then add 2 life cycle plus 2 months. At least having the year and month, it'll be easier to calculate (we're not all involved in tech). Ald also use some number for the SLES number. So something like 15.07.1 would be great (sorry, I don't follow SLES and don't have a clue about numbering there). Regarding SOME_NAME we can follow other cartoon eg NEMO but we should ask the company first to use their names. I guess Debian asked before. Lizards are not enough for the future naming (check http://www.lizardtypes.com/lizards/types-of-lizards/). I prefer openSUSE Stable 15.07.1 because when someone tells me that I have weezy installed, I don't have a clue of what he's talking about (unless I'm tech guy). Also when I say to new guys, use Tumbleweed version, they don't know what's that. So we can keep tumbleweed as tradition and use Stable word for regular versions. @Robert, I hope the paragraph above makes sense. I'm kind of dizzy from studying pathology. I mention you since I guess you're going to gather all suggestions at the end ;-) Take care, /S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I feel very strongly that the actual actions and the process, are being completely misrepresented here. On 06/18/2015 10:51 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Onsdag den 17. juni 2015 13:05:16 skrev Guido Berhoerster:

...

Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind

Correct, the discussion about moving SLES sources didn't come overnight, but it also doesn't impose anything on openSUSE.

...

makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best.

That's quite a leap; the choice to publish SLE sources in OBS does *not* imply that openSUSE must adopt them. Among other things, it provides the option for openSUSE to do so.

...

There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro.

We've been having the discussion since oSC. Nothing was decided beforehand, I can attest to that from personal experience. The only thing that's been decided so far is that Coolo, among others, has decided to try to use some of the sources in a new project, following the mantra that "those who do, decide."

...

If you're wondering where the us vs them thinking with regard to SUSE comes from, it's exactly this. And its utterly disappointing and a slap into the face for those outside SUSE who have put a lot of work into this project.

I'm disappointed to hear that you think so poorly of your peers in this project. Perhaps, instead of assuming bad intentions, you assumed the intentions of those working on this project/opportunity/thing are doing so with good intentions, and you try to understand the problem(s) they're trying to solve, in order to foster a healthy debate that benefits the community? Assuming bad intentions is a quick road to destroying community. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVgwhbAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjV2MH/0MzvrVIO5iGBbOxnVxdDx6z ggD+69oynNr8cuR9kL4kjku96otIo+IB4WfcD/rNKfRne+mrolj94/pGweULHGhr Bi6lMC0RCyhO2MDquTCKrGkHlRQIyukeOLb5cYKRKPtVdMr2w6onm96Oi2yqQdZU JySwnp361G5AqGgarouPJUoYblUY7zLDlBgdYH5Wk5CkrKOnEbCLgRD0xieqle3f WP/kYXi/wlU9sxrTQttowUDttYqf5YVAuBKtFJ7qGkpjR0NHRwNr5by7AVXD2dRS N2Q7Y40veVX2i//crqJ3CK06ST8e52kZ/0gn8JYTUf++tgj6Nzah9K2SaV7P71w= =Ddaz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-18 20:51, jdd wrote:

* there is a lack of documentation about the way a distro is build, that makes it difficult for an other team to take over. true? may be not.

Rather impossible. Even if there is no intention to build another distro, if something happens to the people that are doing it now, the distro may fail. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWDazEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UFTwCfXF7PPI75LnS0rBSZzUouBxq7 vdsAn3+3hWyAuufsPkAREVlrx+j2VWkq =ozLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/17/2015 09:20 PM, James Mason wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 06/17/2015 08:57 AM, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

On 16 June 2015 at 17:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion:

* openSUSE Oak

"""" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us:

* openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """"

Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?

The latter is well advertised as a rolling release so no number or anything is needed. The former uses the SLE Sources as a base and shows the similarity to its enterprise brother/cousin, we discussed at oSC15 using 42 as the name for the project in OBS and using it as the base for the release numbering. So as we were planning on releasing roughly at the same time as SLE12 SP1, then we would label it openSUSE 42.1; with the major number matching the SLE number denoting the tree from which it is spawned and the minor number lining up with the corresponding service pack.

I don't get the fascination with "fixing" something that isn't broken. Nobody cared for the code names for each release since forever, what makes this any different. Lengthening the name is pointless and causes issues with macros etc.

Regards, The Grumpy Curmudgeon

I agree with adding a name; we're changing the definition of how the distro will be created, and what its core purpose is. In the past we've always added names for that; Factory, Tumbleweed, Evergreen. IMO 13.2 is, unless someone steps up, the last 'openSUSE' release. openSUSE Tumbleweed & openSUSE ? move on in its stead.

As far as that ? ... I think its an obvious choice. We repurposed the Tumbleweed moniker for Factory rolling releases, as it was not possible for the Tumbleweed maintaineer to meet its original purpose, and it was 'dying' anyway. Now it has new life, in its original purpose, and is more popular than ever. So, I think the obvious choice, assuming the maintainers agree, is to repurpose Evergreen for the SLE-based releases.

openSUSE Evergreen 12.0 -> SLES 12 openSUSE Evergreen 12.1 -> SLES 12 SP1

I don't believe there are any actual version releases of Evergreen, just repos for older versions of openSUSE, so although the version number moves backwards relative to what Evergreen supported, the name is all new as far as distros go, and carries just the right message/purpose.

- -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVgbqDAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjiy8IAJPpVUTOFO1Etww/tdV6Ok6E oR8x891MBZbuBARq/e50VAnB8QdLtNtFCvX/i07VdpMhXFUptYYTPPjPdqaPdtxb 9xNv6n2ZHMIy3KmopGk6Lx9rtzYQdRVBwhaMFZdzLRnk2J5qB/NvsqnOgkEtNH8N VqM0lrJrZR2d347jbXyIzNSPSsHLAjepiK5XydPsPPwENey56GOVrzHI3jRTGE3T codekHyr32TW5WIfj7iWwhRjOB2PqNAHfX8QDekkOOgAh1obeP20DTymyZzzHtyi spIgFwyE6Q1B1PRExlvbHiAPXFj5998w2etwaUztLZAxPthqET18x2OFXiOzq0w= =RZV7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Hi,

I really like this idea! Lets leave openSUSE X.Y releases at 13.2 for potential future use and use openSUSE Evergreen for this new distribution. +1 Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb James Mason:

So, I think the obvious choice, assuming the maintainers agree, is to repurpose Evergreen for the SLE-based releases.

openSUSE Evergreen 12.0 -> SLES 12 openSUSE Evergreen 12.1 -> SLES 12 SP1

I don't believe there are any actual version releases of Evergreen, just repos for older versions of openSUSE, so although the version number moves backwards relative to what Evergreen supported, the name is all new as far as distros go, and carries just the right message/purpose.

That's a nice idea, but it comes with a problem: The Evergreen team has officially stated that they will provide Evergreen support for 13.1 - both on the mailinglist and on https://en.opensuse.org/Evergreen (and quite some people (including me ;-) run servers with 13.1 for that reason). This means we'll get a naming conflict with SLES 13 SP1 with your proposal :-( Regards, Christian Boltz --

Ich hab da nochma ne Frage! :o) Was is eigentlich en DAU? Ich mein ihr sagt mir zwar die ganze Zeit das ich das bin, aber was das is wes ich ni! *heul* Ich rate ganz einfach ma!;o) Die Allercoolste Userin? Isses das? Ohhh danke danke! Du solltest doch nicht so viele von diesen bunten Pillen auf einmal schlucken... ["Mickimausi" und Axel Woelke in dag°]

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 06/18/2015 01:53 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb James Mason:

...

...

So, I think the obvious choice, assuming the maintainers agree, is to repurpose Evergreen for the SLE-based releases.

openSUSE Evergreen 12.0 -> SLES 12 openSUSE Evergreen 12.1 -> SLES 12 SP1

I don't believe there are any actual version releases of Evergreen, just repos for older versions of openSUSE, so although the version number moves backwards relative to what Evergreen supported, the name is all new as far as distros go, and carries just the right message/purpose. That's a nice idea, but it comes with a problem: The Evergreen team has officially stated that they will provide Evergreen support for 13.1 - both on the mailinglist and on https://en.opensuse.org/Evergreen (and quite some people (including me ;-) run servers with 13.1 for that reason).

This means we'll get a naming conflict with SLES 13 SP1 with your proposal :-(

Not true; Evergreen project provides longer-term support for existing openSUSE distributions; they don't (at this time) make their own releases; openSUSE 13.1 will *not* change names to openSUSE Evergreen 13.1 if/when the Evergreen team takes over support. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVh6xSAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjmZ0IAJBDCdtEnt+3U1MbQw66ICP+ 49YYNnqgUIxFYyMwMB1DkRVBcygSBt9DZivZysGeXs6pTz4+JKKXCXLVmTCrvmeQ ezY+8u6U0Vip7iwBJQEDkdqKm6grAJXJwlIff7JNP1Ms7uZTf5CcEBQ1RbLJ7X1L Q2SikHR0chwUcwLml/4lMY/yRzwKt2zFNxTjkzk9+k4QKeN0910/X0YbnuKCYnQE vUiRKK2qkQ98V+JPd7AlziboS+tjOoj855lPq2RNt6d2YQXB+zHtFCAZjqxAdfbA uzcX2d87euWLTOpLCVdeY5egFFlV1ntyQjTVhP8Kg49Fx9LwyG4LCWgHFDFFJ4Y= =baqd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-22 09:18, Michal Kubecek wrote:

On Sunday 21 of June 2015 23:33:54 James Mason wrote:

...

...

This means we'll get a naming conflict with SLES 13 SP1 with your proposal :-(

Not true; Evergreen project provides longer-term support for existing openSUSE distributions; they don't (at this time) make their own releases; openSUSE 13.1 will *not* change names to openSUSE Evergreen 13.1 if/when the Evergreen team takes over support.

True.

Perhaps not officially but it's quite common to talk about "Evergreen 11.4" or "openSUSE Evergreen 11.4".

Yes, that's also true. And it has its own mail list.

On the other hand,

- the existence of Evergreen repository for 13.1 depends on the result of this whole "42" discussion

It shouldn't, but it would be the last one, I guess. Many people installed 13.1 because it was named an Evergreen release, and are not updating to 13.2 for the same reason. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWH+zAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WFEwCdHdm61dgrJtZUZRS8qe9CGHDy LdUAnA4nXhBWoV7Sn5I3N7nb37YS0M0g =8p7s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2015-06-17 17:57, Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?

Because it is a variant of openSUSE...

This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2015 06:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Because it is a variant of openSUSE...

...

This is hardly a usable justficiation.

...

I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.

Me too, but it will not be.

Well that will depend on the definition of what _the original_ means. This may be better debated in yet another thread. However, lets just get into this here. If we declare the release that SUSE paid employees release and maintain (security) as _the original_ and therefore declare this group of people as "special", i.e. they hold the monopoly on releasing things that are branded "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER", as in _the original_ then indeed a renaming would be out of place, and the new SLES source based release that is being worked on as :42 would be _the original_, aka "regular release". This naming "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" is being advocated by some in the community, and there are certainly reasonable arguments for proceeding in that direction. However, if we come to the conclusion that no group of people should have "special" status (a question raised in one comment in some other thread), then the proposal of abandoning the "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" name and having any and all distributions follow "openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION" is one potential option to communicate the equality of releases, equality as in "equally representative of all contributors". Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgf0tAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkEA4H/jEr0LaoKlkbHxxVmZ2iKWE2 9Bod+m7QfCSNeF9HlZMEzuxbZhPCRM71Lm49zjsx3MvMTtkoX4hv1GYsJCKq/7bf BdTEOpl/9ioTL3qGMx7MM2Aa6Zdibd8MSne3iZIWFM51z3YbDI1Epk4dy3tUbdtn QPrqsQ2+MLePH2wiqTWFjGpJ4gpaDXoapsdVQX+J0g2PhpP8GeeDdivhYwHzVr0j G+Gf9CKuJKOBCB6ubJfhsoy++Yrz/EmHtrRR8AlG2kXr8sy6QCtNRnO/o+Au2IEF V+9BWWv+QmVQo0uL2qtkN3QcDjUrqZIoJ7cNkppXKWXNC8aDA6dz0wAkIP1Pi24= =ZOjc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 18.06.2015 01:05, Robert Schweikert wrote:

communicate the equality of releases, equality as in "equally representative of all contributors".

Please for the love of everything that is holy! Everyone that is participating in this naming discussion: Educate yourself about what you can and what you can't communicate with names. Please. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=product+naming Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:06, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Thursday 2015-06-18 00:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

Because it is a variant of openSUSE... This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_.

Me too, but it will not be.

What do you mean by "it will not be"?

That we are not going to have back the original openSUSE, understood as more or less what we have had for many years... The people that do it decided that they are going to do it differently, deriving from SLES instead of from factory. The new :42 will be so different, that it deserves a variant name. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCC0YACgkQja8UbcUWM1xYXQD+I9sQneDRqrPTBM5DKqm4b1Nj dR5siq/0WEjEJCg268YA/3JrBmWEPZKUBZgyaS+ljLHvm7RaIoiugima8yas6ZdE =DthH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:

Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?

The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest". To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-) In some way we are doing Rock & Roll here. Tumbleweed is "openSUSE Roll", the rolling release. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is "openSUSE Rock", the rock-solid release. -- Cornelius Schumacher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 18 June 2015 at 05:27, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:

...

Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?

The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest".

To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-)

In some way we are doing Rock & Roll here. Tumbleweed is "openSUSE Roll", the rolling release. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is "openSUSE Rock", the rock-solid release.

OK, that I understand and can get behind. Thanks for articulating it clearly, Cornelius. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:

Therefore, my suggestion would be

openSUSE Leap

like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for mankind" (or at least for a chameleon, that is ;)

Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1", "Leap 2" etc. Each release a leap.

Hi, I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 26 June 2015 at 09:47, Klaas Freitag wrote:

...

...

Hi,

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.

So what is wrong with "step" instead? Doesn't that have a similar meaning, and is easier to understand?

"openSUSE Step 1.1"

regards, Klaas

No, I think Step is far too conservative compared to Leap.. To borrow from Neil Armstrong, we're not talking about "one small step for openSUSE", but "one giant leap for openSUSE" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 10:33, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

I am siding with openSUSE Oak.

Me too. Unless we find something better :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNH/0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xs9wD/eDbwFsGWWwdol9usKLCy8w9v +mnNk64CaNvJWtdhe00BAISHKRrPGvLIqHnI6CwzxqwgiJVcnc19XkoHzXhSczfs =/Nha -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

I think the discussion here is around the final name … the article is using openSUSE 42 as the codename for the project so that everyone can have something to use to discuss the work. Sincerely, Bob Martens Martin Luther College Webmaster/Technician http://mlc-wels.edu

On Jun 26, 2015, at 8:13 AM, James Mason wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 06/26/2015 10:02 AM, Richard Brown wrote:

...

On 26 June 2015 at 09:47, Klaas Freitag wrote:

...

...

...

Hi,

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.

So what is wrong with "step" instead? Doesn't that have a similar meaning, and is easier to understand?

"openSUSE Step 1.1"

regards, Klaas

No, I think Step is far too conservative compared to Leap..

To borrow from Neil Armstrong, we're not talking about "one small step for openSUSE", but "one giant leap for openSUSE"

Am I totally misinterpreting the article, or was this discussion pointless? "openSUSE 42 is scheduled to be released around SUSECon..."

https://news.opensuse.org/2015/06/26/work-begins-on-totally-new-opensuse - -release/

- -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2

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On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:

On 26.06.2015 09:19, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:

...

Therefore, my suggestion would be

openSUSE Leap

like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for mankind" (or at least for a chameleon, that is ;)

Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1", "Leap 2" etc. Each release a leap.

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

Yepp, leap sound good. Thank you Rainer!

/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.

Cause you're so young. ;) Search for this phrase: "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind." Cheers Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 10:06, Lars Müller wrote:

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:

...

/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.

Cause you're so young. ;)

Search for this phrase: "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind."

I was a kid at the time, but that is not what I heard on TV. I heard «Es un pequeño paso para un hombre, pero un gran salto para la humanidad» (1) :-P And the normal translation for "salto" is "jump", not leap. So the relation to the Apolo 11 mission for the word "leap" may be missing to many Spanish. :-P [1] https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNH4kACgkQja8UbcUWM1ytAAD/T7k1j8jKiHK0pN5Kjb6AS3Vu yygzfDPIeYQrjc82ewIBAJ1d1uKrhuopcB701I+jd+XGozPi6PywomlFfOSZgEtO =Q+cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Well I'm actually going to agree with Robert on the name of I think that's pretty cool the only other suggestion I have would be since is 42 and we know that it's life the universe and everything why couldn't we take one of the fictional names from the Hitchhikers Guide and name the the project after that I'm in Oak is great because it's Cardinal that but let's give credit where credit's 242 is flight form in the Hitchhikers Guide let's name it from something the Hitchhikers Guide On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Rick Chung wrote:

On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:46:49 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2015-06-26 10:06, Lars Müller wrote:

...

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:

...

/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.

Cause you're so young. ;)

Search for this phrase: "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind."

I was a kid at the time, but that is not what I heard on TV. I heard «Es un pequeño paso para un hombre, pero un gran salto para la humanidad» (1)

:-P

And the normal translation for "salto" is "jump", not leap. So the relation to the Apolo 11 mission for the word "leap" may be missing to many Spanish. :-P

[1] https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

Definitions of leap:

noun

a forceful jump or quick movement.

verb

jump or spring a long way, to a great height, or with great force.

Synonyms:

noun

jump, sudden rise, saltation, leaping jump, vault, spring, bound, hop, skip sudden rise, surge, upsurge, upswing, upturn saltation, jump leaping, spring, saltation, bounce, bound jump

verb

jump over, spring, rush, accept eagerly, form hastily, increase rapidly, jump

Examples:

When the 27-year-old was forced to leap for his life, he bounced 50 yards down the road with other cars swerving to avoid him.

leap year, leap of faith, quantum leap, leap out, leap up, leap over, leap day, leap-year, leap and bound, leap on

On other words, on this right moment for us it sounds like sudden rise or necessary jump to openSUSE42.

My proposal was "openSUSE Fir" to enhance the Evergreen spirit as it is a Evergreen tree variation. A nice way to avoid the conflicting names with the well known openSUSE Evergreen Project but keeping the long lasting release comcept. Now I know "openSUSE Leap" is a very nice candidate for this openSUSE42.

Regards,

Rick

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On 26 June 2015 at 23:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-06-26 19:23, Rick Chung wrote:

...

On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:46:49 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Definitions of leap:

I don't argue that. I'm just commenting, jokingly, that when N. Amstrong said his phrase, in my country we heard it translated to Spanish. And it was translated as "salto". The phrase that we knew for many many years was in Spanish. And the reverse translation for "salto" is "jump". Both "jump" and "leap" translate as "salto".

Thus there is no relation in my (subconscious) mind and that of my contemporaries (Spanish) between the word "leap" and the fact that it was used by N. Amstrong.

The main point is that any type of insider joke or play of words may apply only or mostly to one language or one culture. You have to be extra careful.

(I know examples of words choosed by marketing on an international company that happen to be offensive or with a sexual meaning here... so marketing was lost here, nobody wanted to be seen with that object (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pajero))

- --

While, of course, I would like to see openSUSE choose something which resonates in many cultures, I think "that word doesn't work in my culture" should not be a sufficient reason for not considering any proposed name Otherwise, the only options that will be acceptable to all will basically be randomly generated strings, which will work equally bad in every culture. And I dont like the sound of openSUSE QRsHy, openSUSE TgRhh, or openSUSE LfxEO, for example. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Here's my take on naming things: What is coulomb (C)? What is revolutions per minute (rpm)? Coulomb is both an electrical unit and a surname. C is the symbol for the electrical unit. By the name alone, you don't know what electrical property is being described without some study. Thus, the name is a barrier to learning (marketing). As with C, you first need to know that rpm is a symbol for revolutions per minute, but then, I feel reasonably assured you will understand we are talking about something that is rotating. The name facilitates the discussion. On that basis, I would like to see a list like this: CI = Continuous Improvement, currently known as Tumbleweed. RR = Regular Release, currently known as openSUSE 13.2 and preceding. CB = Commercially Based, currently referred to as 42. ES = Extended Support, currently known as Evergreen. Alternatively, I would find SB = SUSE or SLE Based, currently referred to as 42. equally descriptive. This gives us names and symbols that can be incorporated in version labels. Respecfully submitted, PatrickD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 26/06/2015 23:23, Richard Brown a écrit :

Otherwise, the only options that will be acceptable to all will basically be randomly generated strings, which will work equally bad in every culture.

a solution (?) is to write it in Latin :-) for example oak: http://www.majstro.com/Web/Majstro/bdict.php?gebrTaal=eng&bronTaal=eng&doelTaal=lat&vk=0&teVertalen=oak is quercus jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

  On June 28, 2015 at 8:49:29 AM, Rick Chung (amon0.thoth1@gmail.com(mailto:amon0.thoth1@gmail.com)) wrote:

On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:57:15 PM jdd wrote:

...

Le 26/06/2015 23:23, Richard Brown a écrit :

...

Otherwise, the only options that will be acceptable to all will basically be randomly generated strings, which will work equally bad in every culture.

a solution (?) is to write it in Latin :-)

for example oak:

http://www.majstro.com/Web/Majstro/bdict.php?gebrTaal=eng&bronTaal=eng&doelT aal=lat&vk=0&teVertalen=oak

is quercus

jdd

Funny. I was thinking of that. Latin names to restore the old scientific tradition of Botanical.

Just looking reference for something strong, stable, continuous growing, ....

Then I found these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_sempervirens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_sempervirens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana

And suddenly made me think of anything like Evermore, Forevermore...

That's the spirit of stable, continuous improvement and development (definitely not shaky).

Said so, "openSUSE Evermore" for 42.

And we cover all the trees and plants:

"openSUSE Evermore" (strong,stable, generic and adaptable, ever known) like Sequoia. And this could be a good one "openSUSE Sequoia". I like this one because on some alphabets "S" letter comes before "T" for Tumbleweed. And You could start Stable Sequoia and move later to disperse the openSUSE seeds with Tumbleweed.

openSUSE Tumbleweed (tumbled about by the wind, thereby dispersing its seeds)

openSUSE Evergreen (that retains green leaves throughout the year or years or any pre-settled time)

:-)

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As we come up with names, I think it is also beneficial to think of the length of the name. openSUSE is already a two-word composition and when it comes to marketing, it is pretty tough dealing with so many words. openSUSE + Word + Number + etc can be hard when trying to develop marketing materials. I vote for using one word for the next name. One word is easy to use, shows strong personality and is easy to remember. Are we close to putting all possibilities on the table and start a vote? This discussion is already very lengthy. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 17:26, Jay wrote:

Correct. Plus openSUSE is already 4 syllables in speaking/reading/thinking. In my view the release- name should at most add 2 syllables more. The shorter the better.

Tumbleweed is three... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQMccACgkQja8UbcUWM1xSvwD/ftZuSRYW9byUk/ve2XsfObRt doh9NXE2PziAembNGb0A/jERScTovzAgE4kM8gWJntPnoUuEiYZ2TtZcrM/KHwRq =HX8a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Why not something like openSUSE X 12.1 for the “new” release. We could retire the “openSUSE #” naming scheme and in the future revisit if we should pick it back up again. It is a total copout “solution” with the “X” having no meaning, 12.1 relating directly to the version of the SLE sources it is based on, and also leaving an “out” for picking back up the "openSUSE #" naming scheme in the future for whatever reason. Sincerely, Bob Martens

On Jun 28, 2015, at 1:38 PM, Rick Chung wrote:

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 07:41:27 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Tumbleweed is three...

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

I wouldn't say so. It is most a strategy for some plants to spread its seeds on arid environments.

Check it out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbleweed

"....Tumbleweed species occur most commonly in steppe and arid ecologies, where frequent wind and the open environment permit rolling without prohibitive obstruction...."

Does it sound like familiar strategies we follow to spread the free and open concepts, doesn't it? :-D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 09:49:26 schrieb Rick Chung:

On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:57:15 PM jdd wrote:

...

Le 26/06/2015 23:23, Richard Brown a écrit :

...

Otherwise, the only options that will be acceptable to all will basically be randomly generated strings, which will work equally bad in every culture.

a solution (?) is to write it in Latin :-)

for example oak:

http://www.majstro.com/Web/Majstro/bdict.php?gebrTaal=eng&bronTaal=eng&doe lT aal=lat&vk=0&teVertalen=oak

is quercus

jdd

Funny. I was thinking of that. Latin names to restore the old scientific tradition of Botanical.

Just looking reference for something strong, stable, continuous growing, ....

Then I found these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_sempervirens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_sempervirens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana

And suddenly made me think of anything like Evermore, Forevermore...

That's the spirit of stable, continuous improvement and development (definitely not shaky).

Said so, "openSUSE Evermore" for 42.

And we cover all the trees and plants:

"openSUSE Evermore" (strong,stable, generic and adaptable, ever known) like Sequoia. And this could be a good one "openSUSE Sequoia". I like this one because on some alphabets "S" letter comes before "T" for Tumbleweed. And You could start Stable Sequoia and move later to disperse the openSUSE seeds with Tumbleweed.

openSUSE Tumbleweed (tumbled about by the wind, thereby dispersing its seeds)

openSUSE Evergreen (that retains green leaves throughout the year or years or any pre-settled time)

:-)

Constructive approach! Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

i don't like "Leap". It's just tacky to me. Just my opinion, but I don't feel like it describes any openSUSE release well. Hop, skip, jump, leap..and fall...it just sounds kind of ridiculous to me. Oak is better, but that's still not very creative. It's too simple and has been used for way too many things. I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse? On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:32 AM, Jay wrote:

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 09:19:48 schrieb Stephan Kulow:

...

On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:

...

Therefore, my suggestion would be

openSUSE Leap

like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for mankind" (or at least for a chameleon, that is ;)

Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1", "Leap 2" etc. Each release a leap.

Hi,

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

Greetings, Stephan

Happy to hear that!

What came to my mind a little later is that it would also set the release nicely and logically apart from the "rolling" release.

Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 11:49, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:

For all the reasons you state, I like the Rock&Roll idea proposed by somebody (Cornelius?). openSUSE Rock for the release openSUSE Roll for the rolling

It's creative and describes the thing accurately. I have the feeling that is being discarded/ignored just because it's not green. ;-)

Yes, it is a good one, but it means changing the "Tumbleweed" name, and that's one that has already catched. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNIukACgkQja8UbcUWM1xYWgEAlx+YzFTYh2X1gr94b9edp9NG 667PzvPgRNxgemQ1VVkA/AjMYMEKW2CZUGItZ5ZT/wzfWE9oI7hYE/ksfuaV3rmp =Smkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/27/2015 06:43 AM, jdd wrote:

Le 26/06/2015 11:49, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa a écrit :

...

On 06/26/2015 11:31 AM, Sam M. wrote:

...

i don't like "Leap". It's just tacky to me. Just my opinion, but I don't feel like it describes any openSUSE release well. Hop, skip, jump, leap..and fall...it just sounds kind of ridiculous to me. Oak is better, but that's still not very creative. It's too simple and has been used for way too many things. I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse?

For all the reasons you state, I like the Rock&Roll idea proposed by somebody (Cornelius?). openSUSE Rock for the release openSUSE Roll for the rolling

It's creative and describes the thing accurately. I have the feeling that is being discarded/ignored just because it's not green. ;-)

Cheers.

so why not openSUSE green rock and openSUSE green roll :-)

jdd and openSUSE green eggs and ham to go with the green roll :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

  On June 26, 2015 at 5:57:19 PM, Carlos E. R. (carlos.e.r@opensuse.org(mailto:carlos.e.r@opensuse.org)) wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-06-27 01:07, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On 06/27/2015 06:43 AM, jdd wrote:

...

...

so why not openSUSE green rock and openSUSE green roll :-)

jdd and openSUSE green eggs and ham to go with the green roll :)

:-)))

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

iF4EAREIAAYFAlWN5tsACgkQja8UbcUWM1wnEQD/YCx/N1jEw6cf3qa1Cc96e/Y1 9MN8tARUxkDBfJXFClEA/j9hbHLHnlH+NhcRVKDob2tZcorQV3QVOVKu5AkBsk/Q =hXDg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

\ I personally like the idea of calling it “core.” Not sure exactly where it could fit but what about… openSUSE Core SLE Core SUSEcore -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 2015-06-27 03:05, Home wrote:

I personally like the idea of calling it “core.” Not sure exactly where it could fit but what about…

openSUSE Core

Fedora Core. Oh wait, we had that one already. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 28/06/2015 15:48, Rick Chung a écrit :

ROTFL

Sorry guys, I couldn't refrain me.

it was on purpose, this discussion become lengthy :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 11:55:08 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:

Hey,

On 26.06.2015 11:31, Sam M. wrote:

...

I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse?

*clap* *clap* *clap* the first sensible thing I've read in this thread!

So what should be the criteria for a name? The name should:

* distinguish '42' from other distros by conveying its unique features Thinking in "features" leads in the wrong direction. What's important is customer-relevant benefits. Please name them.

* hold appeal for the product's target audience: End Users, Admins, Small Businesses. That's everybody except Big Businesses.

* imply a salient attribute, quality or benefit of the openSUSE 'brand' Name three. In descending order, from the customer's point of view.

* have a symbolic association with the 'image' that people have of openSUSE Which is? And can you substantiate that with hard data (a survey)?

* help motivate people to download and install 42 In other words: a name that makes people expect the product will solve their problems significantly better than the competition.

Other criteria you can think of?

Short, interesting, easy to pronounce, easy to memorize, not offending, different, works today, tomorrow and in 20 years.

Henne

Don't overkill. You may expect too much from a product-name. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

I should explain it more...

Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Juni 2015 um 21:02 Uhr Von: "Sarah Julia Kriesch" An: "Henne Vogelsang" Cc: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Betreff: Aw: Re: [opensuse-project] How to name the baby

...

Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Juni 2015 um 11:55 Uhr Von: "Henne Vogelsang" An: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] How to name the baby

Hey,

On 26.06.2015 11:31, Sam M. wrote:

...

I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse?

*clap* *clap* *clap* the first sensible thing I've read in this thread!

So what should be the criteria for a name? The name should:

* distinguish '42' from other distros by conveying its unique features * hold appeal for the product's target audience: End Users, Admins, Small Businesses. * imply a salient attribute, quality or benefit of the openSUSE 'brand' * have a symbolic association with the 'image' that people have of openSUSE * help motivate people to download and install 42

Other criteria you can think of?

Henne

* usable for name pattern in the future (what do we want to use for the next releases) * significant, what people are downloading * we should be able to explain, why this name

Sarah

Everybody wants to know, what he is downloading. We have got Tumbleweed and 42 then. What is the difference for the customer and what should he use? Do the explain it on the download page? We want to get new users, too. A new user doesn't want to look in the wiki, what which name is. He wants to get the software fast for testing it. I like the idea with Rock and Roll. Another idea is, what Henne has written above: Brand Tumbleweed is the rolling release and Brand is showing every "branded" step in the development. Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/26/2015 04:49 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:

...

Therefore, my suggestion would be

openSUSE Leap

like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for mankind" (or at least for a chameleon, that is ;)

Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1", "Leap 2" etc. Each release a leap.

Hi,

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

Greetings, Stephan

Hi All, My main problem with Leap is while it means something now in this moment during this transition what will it really mean in 5 / 10 years time. In 2020 openSUSE leap wont convay what the distro is about which is presumably stability etc thats why oak probably still makes more sense, especially with already having the tumbleweed name (I'm not implying it should or shouldn't be called oak, just that i don't think leap makes sense long term). Maybe leap would have been ok as a internal codename instead of openSUSE 42, if we were going to rename it something else before release, but now everyone knows what 42 is so it might be to late. Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 26/06/2015 17:57, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

openSUSE Tumbleweed - join us as we keep rolling forward, but be prepared to hit a few bumps in the road

I like this motto

openSUSE Leap - take advantage of the SLE teams effort to scan the future for points of stability, then leap forward from one stable point to the next. D(...)

but not as much this one. leap is a one shot work, you wont be able to use leap for the next version. I I get the things well, the main change for 42 is the long term support. This *is* very important, may be the only thing that matters for the user. Ideally, we should find a word that is applicable in most languages. I can't say I have many ideas o the subject :-( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 23:45:24 schrieb jdd:

Le 26/06/2015 17:57, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

...

openSUSE Tumbleweed - join us as we keep rolling forward, but be prepared to hit a few bumps in the road

I like this motto

...

openSUSE Leap - take advantage of the SLE teams effort to scan the future for points of stability, then leap forward from one stable point to the next. D(...)

but not as much this one. leap is a one shot work, you wont be able to use leap for the next version.

Don't agree. You'd simply have one release that's rolling along and an other one that moves forward - well - in leaps and would be named accordingly. What would be wrong with "Leap 2"?

I I get the things well, the main change for 42 is the long term support. This *is* very important, may be the only thing that matters for the user.

One might even look at Leap as an acronym. For instance: L ongterm support E nterprise-grade stability A daptable to different needs P owerful software selection If these (examples) would be key-characteristics of this release-branch why not use it over a long time?

Ideally, we should find a word that is applicable in most languages. I can't say I have many ideas o the subject :-(

jdd

One should not try to appeal to everybody. That's a classic marketing-trap. Because in the end you wind up appealing to nobody. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 11:57:25 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

On June 26, 2015 8:08:19 AM EDT, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On 06/26/2015 04:49 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:

...

Therefore, my suggestion would be

openSUSE Leap

like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for

mankind"

...

...

(or at least for a chameleon, that is ;)

Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1",

"Leap 2"

...

...

etc. Each release a leap.

Hi,

I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as

an

...

inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something.

Greetings, Stephan

Hi All,

My main problem with Leap is while it means something now in this moment during this transition what will it really mean in 5 / 10 years time. In 2020 openSUSE leap wont convay what the distro is about which is presumably stability etc thats why oak probably still makes more sense,

especially with already having the tumbleweed name (I'm not implying it

should or shouldn't be called oak, just that i don't think leap makes sense long term). Maybe leap would have been ok as a internal codename instead of openSUSE 42, if we were going to rename it something else before release, but now everyone knows what 42 is so it might be to late.

Cheers

Simon

I disagree. 42 is based on SLE and SLE releases security releases routinely, then leaps forward every SP or full release. Leap is an appropriate name for the long term.

Also, tumbleweed implies something that rolls along and hits every bump in the desert. Whereas leap implies (to me) jumps from one point of stability to the next.

My marketing spin:

openSUSE Tumbleweed - join us as we keep rolling forward, but be prepared to hit a few bumps in the road

openSUSE Leap - take advantage of the SLE teams effort to scan the future for points of stability, then leap forward from one stable point to the next. Due to the nature of the process you can expect a new leap to be released every 12-24 months. Even then, if stability is important to you, you can stay near the back of the crowd and watch what happens as those in the front take the leap to the newest release.

Greg

Not bad! Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am 27.06.2015 um 15:34 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Calling it "leap" is ironic at best, and almost a direct lie, at least it's very much out of touch with what the rest of the world will be doing. One of the criteria for the name should be that it actually says something truthful/meaningful about the distro.

It does. The fact that it leaps from year to year instead of tumbling through the year. I consider this very meaningful. Greetings, Stephan -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Lørdag den 27. juni 2015 18:04:09 skrev Jay:

Marketing is not about telling the "truth" or telling lies either. In my book it's about finding better solutions to customers problems and then communicate your message effectively.

Exactly. Maybe to insiders with a detailed knowledge of the release and development process "Leap" could make sense, but any outsider will associate "Leap" with something dynamic and innovative, i.e. the polar opposite of what openSUSE 42 stands for. If you want to attract contributors who get enthusiastic about old software and medium-to-long lifetime, with a slightly more stable core system, you should choose a name that reflects that, to outsiders also (in this context "outsiders" includes even current casual users of openSUSE). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

I think discussion now become pointless. may one of those that started the thread should build a vote page on connect with the main proposals and let's vote. keep most or all the proposals for a first one week ballot, than the two best for a final ballot I guess this could satisfy most jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday 2015-06-28 13:26, jdd wrote:

I think discussion now become pointless.

may one of those that started the thread should build a vote page on connect with the main proposals and let's vote.

Well, the list is still missing a discussion on who is eligible to vote ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 13:14:28 skrev Jay:

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 10:50:16 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

any outsider will associate "Leap" with something dynamic and innovative, i.e. the polar opposite of what openSUSE 42 stands for. (in this context "outsiders" includes even current casual users of openSUSE).

Leap does not exlusively imply "the latest and greatest".

Given all the flimsy and shaky software out there, ever more Linux-flavors, disruptive desktop-designs causing disrupted workflows etc. etc. an openSUSE-release fortified by "tried and reliable components" (as an alternative for "old software" - as you put it) would definitely constitute a "Leap".

At least for those who are looking for a stable, reliable, no-hassle OS that simply does its job and doesn't give them headaches on a daily basis. And if I'm not mistaken that's a target group of significant size. Just look at Windows XP - MS virtually had to force users to give it up.

In addition, the prospect of a smooth transition might also encourage not-so-daring new users to take the "leap" to Linux.

Nevertheless: if you have a better solution - most welcome!

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard. There's nothing poetic or abstract about the name. It's just to the point and clear to everyone, no lengthy explanation needed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 05:50:46 schrieb Sam M.:

I don't like Leap, I don't really like Oak,

Doesn't mean they wouldn't work. You wouldn't have liked "Mint" either.

and openSUSE Home Server sounds like Windows XP Home Edition. In other words, stripped down with an ugly color scheme. Is openSUSE stripped down, meant to be for home use? It can be, or it doesn't have to be. You can use openSUSE as a production server out of the box. I'm not saying I am the master at finding the right name for the next release, but thus far, my personal feeling is more discussion is needed -- a lot more. Hell, we could even just call it 13.3.

Worst solution imaginable. A complete waste of opportunity. You won't have something like the integration of the SUSE-packages every year.

I think a name would be cool, but a lot of people around forums, IRC, etc., are already expecting 13.3. My personal feeling, though, is that with the right name; something that has meaning and that's catchy,

Yeah - catchy but not "tacky", right? Fullfill your own criteria and come up with one. At least try to. Instead of simply saying "Don't like this" / "Don't like that." That's easy.

and isn't a name that was chosen then reverse engineered to fit the crieteria,

Top left on my sheet with ideas: openSUSE Leap. Right beside it: Longterm/Leading edge Enterprise quality Adaptable Proven I later found "Powerful" better than "Proven". But that's part of the process. So much for "reverse engineered". Rainer

is one that could bring more people into openSUSE and garner more interest in SLES & SLED. This was a hot topic on the mailing list earlier, and the right name is a good first stepping stone. A positive result from that is Micro Focus International benefits from the increased interest in SUSE products and potentially exceeds their quarterly revenue targets, and those benefits are then fed back onto the backs of the openSUSE community. That's a symbiotic relationship which is important in my view.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin Schlander

wrote:

...

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 13:14:28 skrev Jay:

...

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 10:50:16 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

any outsider will associate "Leap" with something dynamic and innovative, i.e. the polar opposite of what openSUSE 42 stands for. (in this context "outsiders" includes even current casual users of openSUSE).

Leap does not exlusively imply "the latest and greatest".

Given all the flimsy and shaky software out there, ever more Linux-flavors, disruptive desktop-designs causing disrupted workflows etc. etc. an openSUSE-release fortified by "tried and reliable components" (as an alternative for "old software" - as you put it) would definitely constitute a "Leap".

At least for those who are looking for a stable, reliable, no-hassle OS that simply does its job and doesn't give them headaches on a daily basis. And if I'm not mistaken that's a target group of significant size. Just look at Windows XP - MS virtually had to force users to give it up.

In addition, the prospect of a smooth transition might also encourage not-so-daring new users to take the "leap" to Linux.

Nevertheless: if you have a better solution - most welcome!

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

There's nothing poetic or abstract about the name. It's just to the point and clear to everyone, no lengthy explanation needed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 16:26, jdd wrote:

As we have "tumbleweed", we could have

* reed (if not oak :-)) * Ent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ent

Mmm, Ents...! :-) I like that one.

against caravan, is the fact that we would have to fear indians :-)

Not with camel caravans. There it would be... what, Tuaregs? At least that's what colonial age books said. Beau geste and such... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQBcgACgkQja8UbcUWM1xcVwD/arqD5R+V4vrT7hIFlPnDPV10 R/dMLsiVhbecDfExAJQA/1E0R7fr0YLW2SIPkTcS/D1QuO9ZjYgwQLHJ4fHpgFsG =AYO6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday 2015-06-28 16:46, Sam M. wrote:

Let's look at Apple, how they chose names for OS's that allowed them to do series of names which were related to each other. Leopard, Tiger, Panther, etc. Are we looking for a name like that will change upon the next release, or is this a name that is not changing when versions change?

Non-changing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

And then home desktop and laptop users feel out. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWP74wACgkQja8UbcUWM1ykkgD9HL/Qw6NvU3bgxknAgtrqJMdG U0am5wJ7+StVQU4DFV0A/R9a/LTVYENNafE3zPbr4qej6RgCfQPjla3bGddfNJzU =Lmjo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 17:03:28 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 14:58:52 skrev Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

And then home desktop and laptop users feel out.

I think they _are_ out. At least by 2016 or 2017.

Why so? Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 19:43:20 skrev Carlos E. R.:

On 2015-06-28 17:03, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 14:58:52 skrev Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

And then home desktop and laptop users feel out.

I think they _are_ out. At least by 2016 or 2017.

So I'm out, you say?

Me too. Unless my expectations for hardware support and desktop software availability and up-to-dateness towards the middle and end of the 3-5 year release cycle turn out to be completely wrong. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 23:09:01 skrev Jay:

Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 22:32:14 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 19:43:20 skrev Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-06-28 17:03, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 14:58:52 skrev Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

And then home desktop and laptop users feel out.

I think they _are_ out. At least by 2016 or 2017.

So I'm out, you say?

Me too.

Unless my expectations for hardware support and desktop software availability and up-to-dateness towards the middle and end of the 3-5 year release cycle turn out to be completely wrong.

Could it be that you're having a problem with the concept of the coming release as such? I mean the long-term-approach/integration of SUSE-packages?

I thought this has already been decided. Or is it still open for discussion?

There's nothing open for discussion. The future is written. Regarding the concept I think openSUSE 42 will be a pretty good competitor for Debian, FreeBSD, Ubuntu Server and CentOS on SOHO servers, but I also think it will be as irrelevant on the desktop as the before mentioned. But there are some unknowns. A lot of claims and "promises" have been made trying to sell the idea, about SLE major releases coming every 3 years (not taking 5 years like the last one), yearly SLE service packs which are "exciting". Hardware support which is backported, and whatnot. Only time will tell if any of that holds true. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 23:49, Martin Schlander wrote:

Regarding the concept I think openSUSE 42 will be a pretty good competitor for Debian, FreeBSD, Ubuntu Server and CentOS on SOHO servers, but I also think it will be as irrelevant on the desktop as the before mentioned.

Possibly. Possibly desktop users will migrate to Ubuntu, if Tumbleweed is not for them. It is already difficult, with things that are only provided for Ubuntu. We might lose a market. By I hope you don't mean that those of use which are desktop users will *have* to migrate because :42 doesn't cater for them. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQe/UACgkQja8UbcUWM1zNJwD/QwdGYxbaAvEiOsn+5YMPrB20 Rzp8C/HaHzZ1eWivCpMA/2cfyIiZUFS8ZL5VwQgR6pVcSPxKcof2TT3k7ncVllMY =VX3B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Am 28.06.2015 um 17:03 schrieb Martin Schlander:

Søndag den 28. juni 2015 14:58:52 skrev Carlos E. R.:

...

On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard.

And then home desktop and laptop users feel out.

I think they _are_ out. At least by 2016 or 2017.

Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother. Greetings, Stephan -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 29.06.2015 11:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-06-29 07:32, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother.

I only skip those releases that seem problematic, I like to upgrade on

Could you just read what I wrote? How does what *you* do relate to what I wrote? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Mandag den 29. juni 2015 07:32:12 skrev Stephan Kulow:

Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother.

I don't. I have spent the last 10 years on the front lines (irc support channels, forums, mailing lists, lug meetings, install parties, writing guides, supporting friends and family members etc.). So I have seen all kinds. While you do have some of those people living under rocks and bushes, minding their own business with outdated (and often unsupported) installations. Sooner or later they'll buy a new laptop, and they can't wait 2-3 years for their distro to get a kernel upgrade. You also need some enthusiasts and power users too, to contribute, spread the word, do support, write howtos etc., if you're gonna have any kind of critical mass. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

My new proposal is "openSUSE Caravan" See below for my reasoning. On June 27, 2015 10:04:09 AM MDT, Jay wrote:

Am Samstag, 27. Juni 2015, 15:34:42 schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Fredag den 26. juni 2015 11:57:25 skrev Greg Freemyer:

...

On June 26, 2015 8:08:19 AM EDT, Simon Lees wrote:

...

2020 openSUSE leap wont convay what the distro is about which is presumably stability etc thats why oak probably still makes more sense,

I disagree. 42 is based on SLE and SLE releases security releases routinely, then leaps forward every SP or full release. Leap is an appropriate name for the long term.

Come on now.

These potential yearly service pack "leaps" will be much, much smaller than the leaps every mainstream distro will be doing every six months.

Even "the big leap" undertaken every 3-5 years will only bring openSUSE to a place 1-2 years behind every mainstream distro.

Calling it "leap" is ironic at best, and almost a direct lie, at least it's very much out of touch with what the rest of the world will be doing. One of the criteria for the name should be that it actually says something truthful/meaningful about the distro.

Nobody would be lying or misleading customers if he named a product "Leap".

But I see where the confusion comes from. I still like leap, primarily because in my mind it differentiates from the traditional "opensuse march" In the past, opensuse made a release on a schedule. Thus it marched through time. You could setup a metronome and know when a release was coming. 42 is not going to be that way. It is going to leap/bound/rush forward as the SLE team identifies and prepares stable points. I'm not a mountain climber, but is there a term for how a large party traverses a mountain. Ie. An advance team is sent ahead to identify the next stable area, attach ropes and drop them down so the main group can move from one stable area to the next with minimal risk? For 42, the SLE team is the advance team. They identify the next point of stability. They go about the process of smoothing it out and preparing it for the main group. In the ancient middle east a group of travelers that moved from one oasis to the next was called a caravan. There was nothing leading edge about how a caravan worked, it was just a safe way to move around in a dangerous world. Greg -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Thank you Robert, I would prefer the community to vote on the new name (and possibly the starting number too). Best, Angelos On 06/30/2015 08:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Hi,

On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion, we mostly stayed on track and thus it makes it not too difficult for me to try and pull things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision. This is a summary, thus not ever aspect or all proposals will be mentioned explicitly ;)

In general it appears that the majority of those participating in the discussion is in agreement that the new release should follow

openSUSE

Additionally it appears that we agree that should not change from release to release, thus creating a consistent naming scheme for this releases matching the idea with Tumbleweed

openSUSE Tumbleweed openSUSE

Now of course the tougher part is and . Lets start with . To stick with the "green" and "plant" theme we had proposed as

Oak, Fir, , with some latin thrown in

I would summarize the associations one would go for with the choice of tree name as follows:

- - stable, strong, longevity

- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.

A play on words and also playing on duality of two releases was the Rock & Roll naming, i.e.

openSUSE Roll (this would be for Tumbleweed) openSUSE Rock (this would be the new release)

This also had positive responses, although there appeared to be the underlying concern that Tumbleweed would need to be re-named as well and Tumbleweed has become a pretty recognized name.

As a third theme a reference to motion was introduced as

openSUSE Leap

turns out that Leap also made a nice acronym.

I would say that these themes received the most discussion. We had a number of other suggestions with replies. If the name you suggested is not listed explicitly in this summary, sorry.

On the topic it appears that we all agree that the starting version is more or less an arbitrary choice. Most proposals did contain a . in the version which was most often related to the SLE service packs that provide the underlying sources. Thus it would be

x.1

for a release based on SP1 sources, then .2 and so on with X incrementing when a completely new source base is available, such as SLE 13 in the future. With X being arbitrary 42, as the project name in OBS and having historical reference in quirkiness in openSUSE appears to have found acceptance. Although starting at 1 is of course just as feasible or even at 12.

My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12.

Now we need to look at the timing and how we come up with the final name .

As a release is targeted for the not too distant future and a milestone is close it would be great to have the milestone released with the final name. The board has been approach to facilitate a quick decision about the name.

The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above. The other option would be for the board to make the name decision. If there is a vote it would have to be a restricted timescale vote due to the timing with a voting period of about 1 week (7 days). Later complaints about "I had no time it was too short" would be considered as bikeshedding.

Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.

Later, Robert

- -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2

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-- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 30/06/2015 19:47, Robert Schweikert a écrit :

things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision.

yes, thanks

- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.

A play on words and also playing on duality of two releases was the Rock & Roll naming, i.e.

yes, but it's almost a joke we can use in discussions, probably not a real name for the reason you give (tumbleweed well known)

My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12.

we absolutely need a solution that can't be confused with old openSUSE version, hence the 12 is out of consideration (IMHO)

The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above.

I think the boars should choose acceptable solutions and build a vote from them (one for the name, the other for the version). every user of this list knows of the subject, so there no delay to wait for, go and vote. and thanks everybody, I find discussion since the OSC-15 very constructive and useful jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2015-06-30 at 14:27 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:

...

Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.

I would prefer to see the board vote.

In my ideal, a simple wiki page would be setup where the proponent of each name would put a paragraph or two describing why they think the name is the best choice.

The board would then review the proposals and narrow it down to a winner.

That not only makes the process faster, it means the voters will be truly taking time to consider the best option.

I added my reasons for favoring Oak to the wiki page that already exists for "status of discussions" for 42: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:42 This can also be useful for people if there's a vote. (As for the vote vs. board decision, I have no opinion) Rolf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:

[...] Given that we had [many] options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.

I would like the board to make the vote, and, in addition, I recommend to the board members to pick Oak. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:

Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July.

2 options: * general, all public vote, followed by a member only vote, as was done the previous time. or * member only vote, to make it quicker. I would not like the board making the decision. However, it could be a first round of membership vote, then if the result is not clear, the board makes the quality vote. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTB9sACgkQja8UbcUWM1z53gEAjsfZVKsGGXzD1oE/M4ueM0W7 bSuhDFjv5DWxmsD2fwgBAJx1YRS0u2P/kuJrIl58WjloVJOypuSB818zaZ3L+CM8 =fQR6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hello Oak in Afrikaans (oke) means guy, man (familiar talk) quite ok neutral word, but used a lot (more than Oak actually :-) On another note, i personally like that things a are named after what they are, so OpenSUSE stable and OpenSUSE rolling would be my preferences over tubleweed and Oak I know it is fashionable with codenames, but it alienates those only remotely related (and often most in numbers) and makes the issue just a little less accessible, which is against the wish of OpenSUSE (i hope :-). But i know i am far from majority with that opinion :-) Good luck choosing Thomas

...

...

On 7/1/2015 at 02:46 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote:

Robert Schweikert schrieb:

- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.

For me, an oak represents something old-fashioned that will never adjust to the times and is very stubborn. Not something I would want to connect with technology at all. As a side note, the color I'd associate with an oak is gray, while it would be better to associate "green" with openSUSE stuff (but then, tumbleweed is mostly brown). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

*vote* -- SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 14:48, Robert Schweikert wrote:

At present I have a 5 to 3 count for vote vs. board decision. However, if there are only 8 people that care about this it may not be worth setting up a poll to begin with and thus the question may answer itself.

You will get complains for years to come if we don't vote.

A simple

"vote"

or

"board decision"

response will suffice. No need to keep rehashing the previous discussion

Vote, members only (no time to do a round of general vote first, it seems). With quality vote by the board if the result is not clear. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVNRAACgkQja8UbcUWM1zTygD+NDl1R1Ji17cDmzhzj9Pb341S xQwFBK/C0iHikXz28A0A/1FSA5qNLZ41bJbeLfdqZ14wQH7zxAi0PpAT518LwZGY =bQT8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 08:48:32AM -0400, Robert Schweikert wrote:

"vote"

or

"board decision"

Vote members only (my number one preference) OR board decision. Public voting is not acceptable to me -- Theo Chatzimichos System Administrator SUSE Operations and Services Team

On Thursday 02 July 2015 08:48:32 Robert Schweikert wrote:

I would like to bring this back to the question from the summary,

"vote" or "board decision"

It would be best to stick to the open source mantra "those who do the work decide". If the people actually working on the baby to name do the analysis of what name would work best and then choose one, that would be perfectly fine from my point of view. Doing a public vote about how to decide about a name for a project other people are working on is a direction I think we should try to avoid to go further. -- Cornelius Schumacher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org