[opensuse-project] Unnanswered questions regarcing Novell-Microsoft agreements
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft? 2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past. 3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL. Does this set the tone for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3 terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of Free technologies? Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your spouce/partner/mother?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did <snip more biased questions.> So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens?
houghi -- To have a nice mailinglist experience, follow the guidelines below:
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houghi wrote:
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your spouce/partner/mother?
If it is only the truth that is automatically biased against you, that is sad, and sad that a straw man is all you can set up to answer it. True or false: Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product? How do I avoid supporting this sort of anti-free-software action?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes.
Please, show me where you think it has been adequately answered. How can Novell reconcile the apparently-conflicting pledges, as has been brought up in many places?
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
<snip more biased questions.> So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens?
Since the announcements seemed to go on about what they had to do to get around the GPL, it was clear they were doing what they could to get around the clearly stated principles of the GPL. I had expected a better response from the rank and file of your company because they have generally not been the problem in the past blunders. Do you think this sort of approach will cause the problem you have created to go away? Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
To Ray David Whitmer: Don't mail me directly. On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 11:44:36AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
houghi wrote: <some stuff I wrote>
<snip drivel that has already be answerd and is just trollbait>
I had expected a better response from the rank and file of your company because they have generally not been the problem in the past blunders.
I must have mised that part of the deal that Novell is now my company. As I am clearly Øwner of this company, I also Øwn this list and demand that the reply-to is set as it was in the past. :-D houghi -- To have a nice mailinglist experience, follow the guidelines below:
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* houghi <houghi@houghi.org> [12-06-06 11:13]:
I also Øwn this list and demand that the reply-to is set as it was in the past. :-D
YOU have been there and know better..... -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de 2006 18:44):
houghi wrote:
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:44:29AM -0700, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
Wow, luckily the question is not biased. When did you stop beating your spouce/partner/mother?
If it is only the truth that is automatically biased against you, that is sad, and sad that a straw man is all you can set up to answer it.
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product?
No, there is nothing like that in the agreement AFAIK. What happen was that Microsoft's CEO tried to imply that Novell had signed the agreement because it felt Linux was infringing Microsoft IP. Novell CEO has promptly responded (the message was sent to the list and is very much worth reading) that it was not true and stated Novell position's on the agreement. Then, Microsoft stated that they "agreed to disagree". Either way, this is all oral crap. It has no pratical effects, other than trying to get people bashing Novell and Suse. Yeah, it seems that Microsoft was an ass and tried to harm Novell. But maybe something good will come up out of this as the agreement still stands. What the agreement says has legal implications. The reasons why any of the parties signed it has none. Cheers, Ricardo
How do I avoid supporting this sort of anti-free-software action?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
Unanswerd? This has been answerd before and the answer is yes.
Please, show me where you think it has been adequately answered. How can Novell reconcile the apparently-conflicting pledges, as has been brought up in many places?
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did
<snip more biased questions.> So when have you pretended to stop drowning kittens?
Since the announcements seemed to go on about what they had to do to get around the GPL, it was clear they were doing what they could to get around the clearly stated principles of the GPL. I had expected a better response from the rank and file of your company because they have generally not been the problem in the past blunders.
Do you think this sort of approach will cause the problem you have created to go away?
Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net
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On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product?
True or false: As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever. Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell using that code? -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 18:24 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product?
True or false:
As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever. Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell using that code?
I doubt that Novell will include anything from M$ that it can't GPL --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, James Tremblay wrote:
I doubt that Novell will include anything from M$ that it can't GPL
Note that Novell cannot GPL (if this means "put under the GPL") contributions where it does not own the copyright. As to what we can include in our distributions, GPL definitely is not a requirement. We ship many packages under the BSD or X11 licenses, for example, These technicalities/legalities aside, I certainly agree with you. I personally consider this unlikely as well and extremely unlikely if it involves contributions to existing packages as opposed to some new package. Gerald (not speaking for Novell) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Am Friday 08 December 2006 01:24 schrieb Darryl Gregorash:
On 2006-12-06 12:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
<snip>
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product?
True or false:
As part of the interoperability issue, Novell may need to incorporate Microsoft-patented code into its non-OSS packages, for example an extension or two to OOo, or something in some Mono module, or whatever. Is The Wicked Witch of The West not entitled to remuneration for Novell using that code?
I have some doubt that we will do this, because of a number of rationals. But I can not guranatee this for 100% right now. However, what i can more or less guarantee, is that such modules/plugins, will not be part of the standard oss part of the distribution. It would be part of the non-oss add-on CD, if at all. So it will also be optional. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 18:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
How do I avoid supporting this sort of anti-free-software action?
Er, leave the mailing list, and stop flogging a dead horse? -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 19:44, Ray David Whitmer wrote:
True or false:
Novell agreed to pay a fee to Microsoft for patent indemnification of its users that is based upon the number of enterprise users who buy its product?
False. That was easy, next question --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de 2006 15:44):
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL.
What happen? That's big news. I have not been able to follow slashdot, so I mostly follow what's posted here. Please post the developments. Cheers, Ricardo
Does this set the tone for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3 terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of Free technologies?
Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net
-- "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 01:31:45PM +0000, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
Ray David Whitmer wrote (@ Quarta, 6 de Dezembro de 2006 15:44):
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL.
What happen? That's big news. I have not been able to follow slashdot, so I mostly follow what's posted here. Please post the developments.
The original poster is just a troll, all points have been brought up multiple times and refuted here and by official statements from us. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
http://fmbv.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-you-want-some-cheese-with-whine.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Jan Karjalainen wrote:
http://fmbv.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-you-want-some-cheese-with-whine.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
I have had such respect for Suse in the past, I have to believe there is some part of the past Suse legacy that is deeply ashamed of this sort of behavior by the current caretakers of it. They must have seen it coming, since it is far from the first time Novell has pulled this sort of thing with acquired companies. The attitude displayed here tells the whole story. Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 12/6/06, Ray David Whitmer <ray@jhax.net> wrote:
Jan Karjalainen wrote:
http://fmbv.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-you-want-some-cheese-with-whine.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
I have had such respect for Suse in the past, I have to believe there is some part of the past Suse legacy that is deeply ashamed of this sort of behavior by the current caretakers of it. They must have seen it coming, since it is far from the first time Novell has pulled this sort of thing with acquired companies.
The attitude displayed here tells the whole story.
Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net
As many have already stated. This has been asked/posted/debated and the inner circle of the SUSE team have responded. There are a lot of OS/Desktop choices based on GNU/Linux. That is the great thing about Open Source. If you do not agree with the direction that one distro is going in -- then the easiest thing to do is switch to another one with which you do agree with. Gnome/KDE and the apps work the same more or less on all of them. -- "Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success." - Dale Carnegie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi Ray, I think these questions where answered in previous postings, or in the FAQs. Do you have read the mails on this topic in the archive ? http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/ FAQs: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html http://www.novell.com/en-en/linux/microsoft/faq.html Am Wednesday 06 December 2006 16:44 schrieb Ray David Whitmer:
1. How does one support Suse as a customer while avoiding and opposing the per-seat false patent tax collected by Novell in behalf of Microsoft?
2. Can/will Novell still use its patents to protect open projects by threatening to sue Microsoft to keep projects free as was pledged in the past.
3. Not even Microsoft and Novell can contest the fact that they did their best to circumvent the intent of the GPL. Does this set the tone for the future, especially with respect to the likely adoption of GPL v3 terms to close the holes exploited by Microsoft through Novell in this case? How do we know whether Novell will continue down this course they have set and work against the interests of the community? If Microsoft starts threatening more actively, which this license from Novell seems to encourage them to do, which side is Novell on? Will Novell campaign against the best interests of the community in the fighting patenting of Free technologies?
Ray Whitmer ray@jhax.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Anders Johansson -
D Gavrilovic -
Darryl Gregorash -
Gerald Pfeifer -
houghi -
James Tremblay -
Jan Karjalainen -
Kevin Donnelly -
Marcus Meissner -
Patrick Shanahan -
Ray David Whitmer -
Ricardo Cruz